Trolls, Malcolm Turnbull and me

Matt Rowley September 13, 2012 27

No GravatarThis hullaballoo over trolling raises a bagful of issues—  few of which are seeing the light of day over the political and media grandstanding this bandwagon has created.

What follows is a little Twitter conversation I had with the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull MP last night. It starts with my adding a (sarcastic) comment to a retweet of his call for people to join a Twitter petition started by a tabloid newspaper. The stated objective of the petition is to:

Push for Twitter to be obligated to work with authorities when these cowards have broken the law, bullied and abused others simply because they can, hidden by their anonymity….Sign our petition and help make Twitter a better place for all users.

No — there are no clear terms of any actual measures they are proposing, but clearly the anonymity of the ‘cowards’ is a key problem.

The first observation has to be that the petition says nothing about defamation, just bullying. As per my sarcastic quip, the beauty of services like Twitter (and unlike the ‘real’ world) is that you don’t need to suffer personally in the face of a bully, or take them to court. You can press a ‘Block and Report’ button. You will never hear from that person again.

The history of Facebook shows that even when people are named, bullying still occurs. Anonymity is not the trigger.

Nevertheless, to stay with Malcolm, the issue of defamation on Twitter is an interesting one. Anonymous trolls invariably have bugger-all followers as their timelines offer less entertainment than an Aussie Super Rugby derby. So when they send a defamatory tweet to or about anyone, it has no more material impact than if they’d said it to their idiot mates down the pub.

This is an important legal point, because whether or not there is a substantial case for defamation depends on how widely the defaming message has been spread. Some will say ‘It’s out there forever though, on the internet!’ Well, as of March this year there were 340 million tweets sent per day. The chances of @NutJob’s tweet creating a meaningful digital footprint are literally zilch.

Unless, of course, the celebrity/rugby league player who was the target of it decides to tell the world about it via their thousands of Twitter  followers and/or access to established media. In this case, who’s doing the defaming?

To go a little further, there are some interesting case studies in ‘reciprocity’ out there in our own sport, as our own social media analyst Cat has pointed out.

In the world of celebrity tweeting, where does fighting trolls stop, and celebrity twitter-bullying start?

In July this year, James O’Connor (at the time, 204 000 followers) decided to “give it back” to a follower (at the time, 68 followers) who questioned his injury in a smart-arse manner. He essentially called this woman ugly in front of all 204 000 followers. Earlier in the year he took exception to another woman asking him if the jersey he was wearing (appearing to be a Western Force jersey) was appropriate given he now plays for the Rebels. He responded by calling this woman ugly in front of his (at the time) 110 000 followers.

Quade Cooper responded to a twitter critic who told him to shut up and stop tweeting and he then called him a stupid idiot. Quade retorted with a witty directive to f**k off. Quade has 608K+ followers and @ToufeeqL has 45 followers. Earlier in the year, Quade had been “trolled” by another fan who told him he’d look like a tool with long hair. He responded by telling this follower that he was a waste of space and he’d look like a dick with no balls. Young Henry was a comparative ‘giant’ on the twittersphere with 81 followers.

My question is where does the responsibility fall? On their followers who are showing off their coolness in front of less than 100 followers? Or on the celebrity who belittles them in front of hundreds of thousands of followers? Is this an equitable relationship?

Many of us would say these ‘trolls’ are simply getting their just desserts — clearly they started the exchanges. But if a puny kid came up to you in the street and gave you a pathetic shove, would you be entitled to blow their heads off with a Magnum, claiming self-defence?

Back to the main, and most important argument — is there a valid case for anonymity on the internet, or is this just a shield for trolls?

Is trolling different to social revolution? Clearly. I don’t defend trolling, and I don’t use anonymity myself, but I defend the little guy’s right to it, because you just never know when you’ll need it.

Let’s say you’re a ‘low-down’ working for a government department, but want to share views contra to government policy. Should you be able to do that anonymously, or should your choices be to shut up or lose your job? Sure, the current regime say this database of Twitterers will only be used for cases of bullying or defamation, but what happens when the next lot decide to broaden their definitions under different circumstances?

Which is why my last tweet to Malcolm was this:

This is a far-reaching discussion that will have far-reaching consequences into the future for ‘the little guy’ in Australia. Let’s not have them shaped by this month’s desire for airtime and the odd celebrity with their nose out of joint.

Discussion »

  • TassieTiger

    Interesting article. A good insight for someone like myself who doesn’t use twitter.

  • http://twitter.com/matty_k matty_k

    When the Robbie Farah thing went down I was on Robbie’s side. What was sad was pretty low.
    It was very much an emotional response and pretty sure I would have reacted similarly if someone said something similar about my mother.
    The to and fro between myself and a good friend of mine on Twitter over whether Robbie should face justice over his threatening of harm to MaxPower118 should also be punished was fun. We were also “trolled” by both sides as debated.

    However the call for new tougher laws is stupid. They already exist.
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/claoaoma22004729/sch1.html
    474.17 Using a carriage service to menace, harass or cause offence

    (1) A person is guilty of an offence if:

    (a) the person uses a carriage service; and

    (b) the person does so in a way (whether by the method of use or the content of a communication, or both) that reasonable persons would regard as being, in all the circumstances, menacing, harassing or offensive.

    Penalty: Imprisonment for 3 years.

    Also don’t underestimate @NutJob’s sway. She has 1500 followers.

    • Cat

      I agree that what was said was hugely over the line. I’ve also seen firsthand some of the obscene crap that is tweeted, facebooked and (in some cases) emailed to players after a loss. It’s disgusting, and the volume of it is enormous.

      But on the other hand I think that we do need to consider when public shaming crosses into the player defaming a follower.

      I don’t think making everyone’s real identity known on social media is the wonder fix that politicians & celebrities think it will be. I think it screams of appeasing the viewers of Today Tonight & A Current Affair.

    • robbo

      The sorry thing about this is that while you can be prosecuted for using a carriage service (such as social media) to “menace, harass or cause offence” if “NutJob on the radio” eg Hadley or Jones and their ilk or in the newspaper does the same you need to either sue them yourself or ask the Press Council (or whatever it’s called) to give them a slap on the wrist. (With acknowledgement to Crikey.com for yesterday’s article – log on for a free trial and read the whole article).

  • KDog

    If you can’t stand the heat. Keep out of the kitchen. Maybe they can legislate to stop the Wallabies loosing to the AB’s. I ‘d vote for that. The nanny state in full swing….
    Go Wallabies

  • cyclopath

    You saw my thoughts last night, Matt. I agree with pretty much all you’ve said. There are systems in place. I’d rather deal with the flaws of free speech than the constraints of broad censorship.

  • Pedro

    Trolls themselves are stupid, as is replying to them or valuing their opinion. While it would be nice to find a solution that would make abusive attention seekers more accountable, I really don’t understand why they can’t just be ignored. For me, getting involved with these people would be like clicking on pop up windows in attempt to stop them. Nice article mate.

  • Barbarian

    I blame Robbie Deans.

    • old weary

      have to agree there.

    • jrsONE

      Studies show that 90% of twitter trolls are Rob Horne

      • Horror-tags

        And the other 10% are Tom Carter

  • suckerforred

    I have missed much of what triggered this debate on twitter, but have been amused by how far some people are willing to go with regard to legislation.

    My twitter account is vaguely anonymous in that you can not serch for my e-mail address & find me, I don’t use photo’s of myself as my avi, and my real name does not appear in my handle. But if you follow me you will see the odd pic of me and links to things that do include my real name.

    I think the behaviour on twitter is just a reflection of what is happening in society. I certainly don’t say anything on twitter that I would not be prepared to say face to face with someone. Most people who know me on twitter & in real life know that I am the same in both universes. But there are others out there that do not have that filter.

    Are they cowards? Perhaps. Do I let them get to me? Nope. Have my piece to say and then block them. As Gagger said, you never ever hear from them again.

    We do have to be careful though that differences in opinion are not made more of then should. Just because I disagree with you does not give you the right to make arguements personal & derogatory. If you disagree put together a informed logical arguement & I will listen. Call me a ‘F*%^*^g C$%^’ you diserve all you get.

    Do I get sick of people sprouting religious stuff on twitter as I am not a religious person? Yep. But I respect their right to have that opinion and to tell me that I am going to die & go to hell. I just stop following. If they continue to target me but are not offensive, then I just block them. If I find them offensive & feel they have over stepped the ‘Down the Pub’ rule, I block & report them. I have the power! In the rest of life I don’t therefore feel I am one up.

    Down the Pub rule – If you are not willing to say it to me down the pub. Don’t say it.

    Do we need legislation? I don’t think so. We all need to be big enough to accept that there are diferent people in this world. It is like being at the pub. If some bloke is anoying you, you generally work away & ignore what they are saying. Actually, twitter is better. You can block them & not have to hear them ever again!

    If someone is being nasty about me, then I hope that the people who matter to me will either ask me what the true story is. Or know me enough to ignore the bullshit.

    Final word – Stop being princesses people. In a group of 10 people you might find 1-2 people who can’t stand. On twitter, accross the whole world, cope with the fact that there will be millions of people out there to point out the error of your ways. It is how you handle it that makes the difference.

  • Rob42

    Poor Malcolm. The crappy little things he has to do to try to keep up with the latest crowd-pleaser from the Daily Telegraph.

    It’s a long, long way from the Spycatcher trial, Malcolm…

  • http://www.andrewmosey.com Moses

    Great article Gagger.

    I’m all for making people accountable for their comments, but pushing through draconion laws with bipartisan support on the back of tabloid outrage will inhibit the freedom of us all.

    The basis of my objection is that I don’t see how legislation could stop the trolls.

    Twitter and Facebook are US companies with no mandate to work with Australian, Chinese, Egyptian, Syrian or any lawmakers.

    With proxy servers and tor providing effective IP obscurification, it is a trivial activity for the common troll to sign up on a social media site, and there is no known way to track who they really are.

    Even the lazy troll who makes no effort to cover their footsteps is costly to trace. I believe Twitter would require a US subpoena to disclose a users IP address, then the ISP of that user would also request court documentation in their jurisdiction to provide the name who pays the bills. Even then, with pre-paid Internet, Internet cafes and free public wifi it would be easy for the troll to escape the long arm of the law.

    Blocking a determined troll permanently is only possible in a world where every user is authorised. With 500 million twitter and 1 billion facebook accounts the cost of this verification would be prohibitive. Would the shareholders of these companies be inclined to bear this cost?

  • ooaahh

    I’m so glad this has been raised. And your bang on Matt. This is not about what people are saying this is about control over what people are saying.

    Screw anybody who feels they should take away your ability to voice an opinion, even if it is inflammatory or anonymous.

    To all the self seeking gratification players who want only good press. Get off yourselves. Your human like the rest of us and we like you for the way you play not the person you think you are. If you can’t cop some sledging once in a while then get off the service.

    As an aside Jonny Wilkinson intentionally avoided reading all press about himself because he knew it would effect him. That’s a much more mature way to view it.

  • JJJ

    If you talk to the world the world will talk back, and you probably won’t like what it has to say.

    The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. Everyone who knows anything at all about the internet knows that. Getting a response — any response — will only encourage them.

    Whilst I personally don’t like the idea of removing anonymity from the internet, or censoring it, I’m not too worried it might happen. When one social media gets de-toothed another one will crop up. I’ll still vote against anyone supporting censorship. That’s the only reason I’d need to vote against them.

    And if anonymity is your thing there are enough free programs out there made by tin-foil hat paranoid programmers to give you anything from discretion to super-secret double-agent spy level anonymity. I’d post links but I suspect Matt has probably tweeted this article to Mr Turnbull.

    • http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/ Matt Rowley

      Damn straight on your final line!

  • muffy

    @mywife fetch me a beer and make me a samich – you not n Egypt now #thirstyaussie

  • Touko

    I’m sorry, that was the stupidest and most pathetic thing I’ve ever read in my life and you’re so ugly even your children probably wish they hadn’t been born.

    No, only kidding.

    It’s an interesting issue, a thoughtful article and yet again shows why this site is great.

    I just wanted to add that one of the things I particularly like about G&GR is that relatively speaking very few trolls show up here and nearly all the time differing points of view can be expressed without idiotic critics playing the man rather than the ball.

    So thanks Matt and all the other writers here!

    • http://www.greenandgoldsailing.com Moses

      Oh we get heaps of trolls, however they get blocked pretty quickly

  • Bruwheresmycar

    Great final tweet Gagger. The logic people on this “stop the trolls at all costs” bandwagon is ridiculous.

    It’s amazing how so called believers in the “market forces” believe the demand for tighter controls on “trolls” is so high, they need to start a petition. But at the same time they believe the market has failed to act, in a situation where a tiny change to the website would suffice. (which shows clearly the demand isn’t there)

    The fact is, if a major social media website made any change that would meet the requirements of this ignorant mass, it would negatively effect;

    - Their traffic
    - The user happyness
    - And their profits

    This is just another exercise of the government targeting an emotion issue and using it as an excuse to take away freedom from your average/well meaning internet user.

    • murph

      Turnbull isn’t free market. He’s always been about leveraging government legislation to gain an unfair advantage over competitors.

  • Who?

    Typical G&GR gold. Who’d have picked that some of the best, clearest and most logical debate I’ve seen on the net about this issue would be on a Rugby site?

  • Patrick

    Like who? said, Pure Gold and I agree totally.

  • wilful

    have a read of this column by generally perceptive media commentator Mr Denmore: http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/for-whom-bell-trolls.html

  • Dirty Socks

    Stick to rugby, you will do much better next time with full annonimity!

  • Slim 293

    Hey Matt, Media Watch did an excellent piece on this topic tonight that you will enjoy:

    http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3592056.htm

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