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Tuesday’s Rugby News

Tuesday’s Rugby News

Tuesday’s Rugby News has Cheika thinking the Wallabies aren’t fit enough, the u20s need more time, and ringing random angry blokes. It also has Simon Cron news and Force news.


Fitba

Michael Cheika

After the Wallabies lost a game of rugby union fitba against the Scottish, Michael Cheika has surmised that the team isn’t fit enough.

“We spoke about it at the coaches meeting and we spoke about it in general that we need to lift the standard of our fitness level across the board – from the start of Super Rugby right through to us as well,” Cheika told rugby.com.au.

“We then need to elevate that and take it to another level because that is what’s required. The game goes faster.

“When it goes faster it becomes more powerful, collisions are bigger, there’s not more game time necessarily – the game just goes faster and you have to be ready for it.”

While he was chatting, Cheika also passed on what he thought of the Aussie u20s. They also lost to Scotland in the 5th-place final at the u20s World Cup on Monday morning.

“I thought they could have done a heap better if they had more preparation time,” Cheika said.

“I felt for the coach there – he didn’t get a lot of prep time and had eight players playing Super Rugby, who got on the plane with no training sessions to go to Georgia.

“This team, that had such a strong Super Rugby contingent in it, should have been better prepared and that’s no fault of the coaches.

“It’s about us giving them access to the players so they’re ready to go.”

Cheika continued: “That’s an important growth point for our players coming through – for them to achieve success at that level – and we’re going to be investing more in that program going forward.

“The struggles, even from a fitness point of view as well, getting them fit enough to have them playing footy but still being able to have access to the national 20s program so they’re ready for that tournament.

“Everyone wants to see them do well – it’s on every year and then we will have a generation of players that come into Super Rugby off the back of it – it’s something we have to get better at.”

Cron Content

simon-cron-pic

Lucky then that Simon Cron’s here to give his thoughts! He’s happy, but also not happy, about the u20s 24-17 loss to Scotland. This meant Australia finished 6th.

“Their field position was outstanding, they played extremely well in terms of kicking to corners and controlling that position – they did really well,” Cron said, according to rugby.com.au.

“Our game management and basic execution from some of our key guys (let us down).

“The boys tackled their hearts out around the breakdown.

“We counter rucked a lot, turned a lot of ball over but it’s what we did with that ball when we got it.

“We had passes thrown behind others, we had one or two guys drop the ball three or four times each and that alleviated the pressure, unfortunately.”

Huh. Sounds familiar. Anyway, one of those players throwing crap passed was half Harrison Goddard, but Cron was ready to back him up.

“Godds is a great player,” Cron said.

“He’s one guy who has played a bit more rugby and he shows that – he’s got a good head on his shoulders and knows what to do.

“He clears the ball quickly and I think he was one of our best out there today.”

Echoing what Cheika said, Cron agreed more preparation time would only be a good thing.

“As a coaching staff we are constantly working with them on their skill development and their rugby brains.

“At 18, 19, 20, that has to be an area where we keep building with these kids.

“As you could probably tell in the last 10 minutes, our decision making process put a lot more pressure on us than we should have and as a result, Scotland get over the line in the last minute.”

Hardwick Commits

Richard Hardwick

The Western Force have signed Richard Hardwick for another year, the hard-hitting Namibian-born Wallaby putting the quill to the parchment.

““The Force is where I want to play my rugby, I’ve said that before and I stand by it. WA is my home, it’s where I was brought up, I’ve played all my rugby in WA, played for the state teams and come through the system to reach this point.,” Hardwick said in a release.

“Not only that I’ve got mates who have done the same thing, like Ross Haylett-Petty and Chance Peni who I played with when I was 15. WA rugby is producing the goods and it’s not going to be long before they are in the Wallabies squad as well.”

Hardwick, probably feeling a bit dead inside cos his club’s about to be cut n’ that, continued on.

“It’s awesome, I’m looking forward to another year and putting consistent performances together for the Force. I’ve taken a lot of confidence out of what I’ve been able to achieve this year and can’t wait to go again next year and build on that.

“With ‘Hodgo’ hanging up the boots I want to step up and play in that number seven jersey and try the best I can to fill his boots. He’s a legend of our club and he’s done so much for the club but I’ll do my best and give everything I have to this team.”

Dave Wessels said this:

“’Dickie’ deserves all the recognition that has come his way recently,” he said.

“He’s extremely hard working and plays for those around him, but he also understands that there is plenty more for him to work on. We’re delighted to have him as part of the group in 2018 and beyond.”

Meanwhile, the Force have failed to win back-t0-back Mauritius 10s championships, going down to the Africa Pacific Dragons in the bronze medal match. Yeah. The Brumbies managed worse – they cam 6th. The Bulls beat the Cheetahs in the final.

Cheika A Pleb Like Us

not hot enough

Michael Cheika rang up Jack Quigley yesterday, the bloke who left a mad rant on the Wallabies page. If you haven’t read the post here it is.

“I was worried when I hadn’t heard anything for a couple of days from the ARU,” Quigley told foxsports.com.au.

“They were continuing to post things on their Facebook page once they arrived in Brisbane, and I was reading the comments and people were saying ‘how can you continue to post things and not make any contact with the bloke who has 40000 likes on your page.’

“And then my phone rung and it was Cheik and he said: ‘look, the letter was addressed to me and I wanted to be the first one to ring you.’

Quigley, who lives in Lismore and wrote the post after ’16 beers’, said the chat was good. The infamous letter has now be stuck up on the Wallabies’ locker room’s wall.

“He didn’t dodge any blame. I stuck to my guns and asked him a few hard questions, but he held his hand up and was really good about it and he actually encouraged me to save his number and call him back if things don’t improve, which was very good of him.

“I felt something when I was watching the game — and I said it to Cheik…it was obvious to me that that game was in the balance and it was up for grabs for whoever wanted it more,” Quigley said.

“And Scotland wanted it more than us and they won the game…how can you let someone come into your country and want that loose ball on the floor more than you?”

While some opinion is divided over whether Cheika’s act was classy or silly, Quigley is very impressed with the bloke.

“He texted me after our conversation and in my response I just wrote to him ‘wishing him the best’ And he wrote back and said: ‘Mate, I’m the same as you, I’m just a pleb. I just happen to coach the team.’

“It was sort of a nice reference to the piece (where he described himself as a pleb and a nobody). It sounded like he genuinely read it a few times through and he connected to a lot of parts of what I was angry about.

“This thing’s gone way bigger than I ever thought it was going to and to get a call from him is pretty surreal, to be honest.”


 

Psst – Green and Gold Rugby’s usually a tinpot concern, but just for a day, there’s some quality content on this yellow-shaped rock. Check out Alison Foskett’s article, “On the trail of the SuperRugby ‘heist’

  • jamie

    Can’t understand how Cheika’s act can be considered silly. Connecting with the fans and proving he’s still one of us is something sorely needed in rugby. I love the fact he called him, I really do.

    • Huw Tindall

      It’s certainly better PR than the meaningless dross and promo-shots put on on the Wallabies social media accounts!

    • Missing Link

      It’s not silly – fan engagement is an important part of pro sport. Whether it’s sticking around after a game to sign a few autographs, attending formal interviews of responding to drunken rants it doesn’t matter.

    • moaning expat

      Damn right. 40k likes so youd be an idiot not to.

      The thing is i think cheik thinks the same thing as quigly word for word.

      The scots wanted it more than us and that what i said half way thru the game. (Or rather screamed at the tv)

  • Who?

    Yep – Cheik’s a pleb. Hang on, isn’t a pleb a socioeconomic term..? He grew up at the beach, I grew up in fibro. His house must be worth at least 8 times what mine is… He can’t be a pleb! :-P
    Also, given Jack put out a massive spray after he had 16 beers, do you reckon there’s any chance he’ll publicly post Cheik’s phone number after he’s had 20? :-P
    For the record, I don’t think Cheika’s action was silly. No idea how anyone could think it was silly. I agree with Jamie – something had to be done, it’s taken a little longer than it should have done (to get on the front foot in the face of overwhelming negative publicity), and I can’t think of much else that could’ve been done better. But I don’t see that any part of this – the FaceBook rant, the 40k likes, the Cheika call, any of it – will actually make a difference.

  • Shtinatina

    I’m not surprised at all that Cheika called Mr Quigley, he did that at the Tahs.
    He’s been known to have a long conversation on a flight, replied to many emails & phone calls.
    He is always happy to chat when I’ve seen him around, even when he was the starter of an ocean swim I was about to swim in after the RWC.

    • onlinesideline

      I remember having a yarn with Jim Williams over a coffee once just sitting outside in this tiny little suburban cafe in Sydney one mid week sunny morning. And he was totally up for a chat. It was about the Wobblies under Deans tutledge and he openly admitted then too that the boys were no where near fit enough. He was mystified why it wasnt a priority but seemed a tad reticent to start pointing fingers – WTF is going on.

  • Not a lance fan

    Quigley’s drunken rant didn’t warrant a response from the national coach ffs.

    • onlinesideline

      We did lose to Scotland ffs, in our back yard on a sunny day, alledgely fully fit from Super rugby – the whole team should have responded to Quigley. The ARU, the whole team, the coaches, they should all do a Japanesse style confession, like the Fukashima CEO did …. this is pathetic, we are the world famous Australian Wallabies once admired for smart and breathtakingly fast rugby union. We should have towelled these guys by 20 points.

      Guy from ” Once were Warriors” was bang on …. “Too many weights not enough speed work – useless prick(s) ” – dont know bout the useless pricks part but …..

      • Brisneyland Local

        Go cook the man some eggs!

        • onlinesideline

          lol

        • Dud Roodt

          Clean ya self up, ya makin’ me suck (sick)

      • Not a lance fan

        Why do you think we lost to Scotland? The “ooh the players aren’t trying turning up for training at 8am and don’t care and we have a divine right to beat Scotland” guff is complete and utter childish bullshit.

        There are fundamental problems with the game here that resulted in that result.

        We’ll get smashed in the Rugby Championship, get our arses handed to us on the November tour and probably lose all 3 games to Ireland next year irrespective of who is selected, managing and what time they turn up for training.

    • first time long time

      That rant was merely the public expression of the growing disquiet amongst Australian rugby fans.
      I think his response was warranted and should be applauded (and I’m not a Cheika fan).
      These guys “running” the show need to get a grip on the fact that without us, the fans, they have nothing.

    • moaning expat

      Wrong wrong wrong

      It DEMANDED a response

      Did you not see 40 thousand people agree whole hearted????

      If cheik didnt i feel rugby would be truly damned

      • onlinesideline

        Ive met a couple of moaning expats

        • moaning expat

          Thats wonderful news. Thanks for that.

      • Not a lance fan

        “If cheik didnt i feel rugby would be truly damned”

        If Cheika didn’t respond to a fucking idiotic drunken Facebook post rugby would be truly damned?

        • jamie

          And the 40,000 people who agreed with him?..

  • Dud Roodt

    Jesus Christ – woke up this morning thinking “surely no one will have a dig at Cheika for actually acting on this” – low and behold.
    Let’s face it, if he had ignored it, he would have been slammed for ignoring “the people”; he responded, he gets criticised for not concentrating on important stuff.
    The very definition of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    • Waz_dog

      Don’t actions speak louder than words DR? I really feel like this is just a measure of pacifying rugby supporters in Australia.

      Why can’t he show he cares by implementing a plan B game style when Chieka ball gets unlocked (which is happening more regularly)? Why can’t he pick players to play the position they play in SR? Two fundamentals that should be a core role of the Wallabies coach.

      Show you care by working harder as a coach to better yourself and the team, not saying it at a presser or to a disgruntled fan.

      It’s just more lip service of the same old, same old.

      • DrewB

        I’m sure Chek can walk and chew gum at the same time.

      • Dud Roodt

        Whatever the intentions of it were, are we now just in a position that everything he does is worthy of a shot? If you look at this for what it is, I struggle to see how anyone would have a problem with it as a principle.
        If he hadn’t responded, he would have been slammed for that – so, as I said, he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t

        • Waz_dog

          He’s not damned if he does damned if he doesn’t. For too long the communication to the public conveying a message that is motivational/cliques/insert passion for the jersey here is treating the symptom not the cause. The games evolved, chieka hasn’t. A chat to joe blow doesn’t mean shit.

  • Tommy Brady

    One is left wondering how Jack Quigley is left feeling when Cheika confesses his Wallaby players may not be fit enough.

    There is little doubt Jack has cast his mind back 1 year when Cheika had his Wallabies running hills at a 2 week camp on the Central Coast when the same realisation was formed. Jack has to wonder what lessons have been learned?

    Jack is entitled to wonder what Cheika and the Wallaby staff have done with all the information provided to them this year. You know, the data those gadgets that all players wear on their back that log all kinds of metrics on player performance. I’m certain Jack is aware Cheika had access to all that data this year. Every player, every Australian Super Rugby team, every week.

    How is Jack left feeling? He witnessed those Rebels floggings, those inept Waratahs 1st halves, those Red’s 2nd half collapses. Like Cheika, Jack has seen the Australian Super Rugby sides win / loss record against non-Australian sides this year including an historic 0 win record over NZ sides after 26 matches. Jack has also noticed the mounting injury lists suffered by many Australian sides and no doubt wondered how many were due to poor player conditioning.

    Is there no end to Jack’s misery? After losing a record 9 tests in 2016, Cheika has started 2017 in the same poor manner. Jack should be angry. Sadly Jack should be scared. The Wallabies are being exposed at test match level to being a very poorly coached international rugby team. Anyone thinking otherwise is wrong. Just ask Jack.

    • Ads

      Surely fitness at this point of the season is a super rugby result? Not sure it’s reasonable to blame Cheika for that one?

      • Dud Roodt

        Yeah 100%. It’s like people think that Cheika actually coaches all the SR teams as well as the Wallabies.
        He can’t actually go into each team and say “your running this like a piece of shit, here’s what to do”

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          But Cheika can be held to account for his game-plan. Last year he said, after the England series, that the team “wasn’t fit enough for his game-plan”.

          If they’re not fit enough then they need to change the game-plan, which Cheika has been unwilling to do.

        • Ads

          I’m not sure what the ideal game plan is for unfit players with poor catch/pass/kick skills.

        • Dud Roodt

          It involves a white flag and playing June Internationals against Thailand and several Scandinavian countries I believe.

        • onlinesideline

          I lived in Stockholm once upon a time – bloody lame place if you ask me.

        • Dud Roodt

          Ah yes, but Sweden v Wallabies – aka The El Clasico!

        • Will

          We’d still get pasted.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Hahahaha and the odd college 2nd XV

        • mistermouse666

          Post of the day

        • Dud Roodt

          I reckon we would have been left even further behind in world rugby if we slowed our play down because our players couldn’t get themselves fit.
          Our aim shouldn’t be to go back to how England played in the 90’s.
          We can’t control having less skilled or naturally gifted players than the AB’s, but one thing that is within our control is fucking fitness.

        • Dean

          We do have naturally gifted players like the ABs. We just don’t have the money to keep them in our code.
          cronk, dugan, frizzle, fifta just to name a few. Not to mention angus crichton . All school boy stars that switched to league

        • jamie

          Throw O’Connor in there. Bloke is as naturally talented as they come. Lost to his own stupidity

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Well actually mate I think he can. If he isn’t pressuring the Super coaches to get his people fitter, and maybe he is, then he bloody should be. Whether they are prepared to listen or not is another issue.

          However, I actually put this onto the players. If they don’t know they aren’t fit enough then they should be fucked off back to club rugby as if they are too stupid to not know that, then they’re too stupid to be playing at the top level.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Here here!

        • onlinesideline

          what should he do, get Larkham to have a word with himself – ” Listen Steve, as Wallaby attacking coach you have to get your guys fitter mate, as you are the Brumbies coach”

          cricketssssssss

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yes he bloody should. Not only that, if Larkham can’t get his players fit for the national coach then the idea that he replaces Cheika should be reviewed. Personally I think it should be reviewed anyway

        • onlinesideline

          Agreed – Laurie Fisher should be Cheika’s main sidekick and should be escorted in to training ASAP with full military urgency and protection – something like this

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUhDcmWiL5M

        • Alister Smith

          I don’t mind Cheika but I don’t think that the coach has the right to appoint their successor. Unfortunately at the moment the Brumbies at the moment struggle to score points (they are 10 or 11th in terms of points for) and the Waratahs struggle to defend (13th in terms of points against). Maybe if we had the Brumbies defence coach and the Waratahs attack coach we may be better.

        • Ads

          Agree the players need to take some ownership too. Not blame – ownership.

        • Dud Roodt

          This is my point. We actually don’t know what Cheika is doing. But he is limited to requesting that they improve the fitness of their players. Beyond that, what can he do? Of course he can not select his players, but if all the SR teams are at the same level, he’s stuck on that front.

          I agree wholeheartedly KRL that it’s on the players. I have spoken about this before on here, but I chatted to Daryl Gibson before the SR season started about Michael Hooper and he was saying basically that his preparation is like nothing they’ve seen before. After they train for 5 or so hours, he will then go home and do hours and hours of individual preparation after that. His testing is off the charts (he said basically they can’t break him). My reaction was, firstly obviously how impressed I was with Hooper, but not surprised in the slightest (when did he last miss a game through injury?), but to think “well, why the fuck isn’t every single player on a professional contract in Australia doing exactly the same fucking thing?
          To Jack Quigley’s point re Foley doing kicking practice, we’ve all heard the stories of Jonny Wilkinson staying after training for 5-6 hours EVERY.SINGLE.DAY kicking at the posts.
          These are the differences between really good players, and great players.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yeah I’ve seen Dan Carter do the same. Good players do the work they need to do

        • Alister Smith

          Not a criticism of Cheika but I think Rod MacQueen was able to work with a lot of the Super clubs and co-ordinate things on a national level. I wonder if he is someone who would be considered for the ARU’s CEO job when it comes up in February (i suppose he has to want it first)

        • mikado

          I agree that the players should know if they’re fit enough or not. But you’d think the Super coaches would be motivated to have fit teams anyway, and shouldn’t need Cheika to remind them about that. The NZ teams kill their opposition in the last 20 minutes, every match. Why would the Aussie teams not be trying to do the same? Is it that the coaches are hopeless? Or the players are uncoachable?

          The British teams used to have poor fitness compared to SH but it seems to me they’ve improved a lot in the last few years. For the English at least, that’s in an environment where the clubs are not subject to central control. So if it’s fixable for the English it should be fixable for Australia too.

        • Tommy Brady

          Cheika this year introduced a policy that ALL super rugby player fitness and conditioning data be centralised and made available to the Wallaby coaching team every week for analysis. It was a logical progression from the previous policy so Cheika could monitor all Wallaby wider squad members at all times through the super rugby competition to avoid the mistakes of last year and have players turn up to Wallaby camp out of shape.

          Maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps Cheika just wanted pretty charts to wallpaper his office.

        • Ads

          Agree that is a step forward, but there is a difference between seeing the data and being able to tell all the super rugby coaches they are crap, and them listening to make the changes he suggests. I don’t think there are too many fitter guys not in the squad. With the exception of Fardy, and maybe 1-2 others the squad is close to our best available.

        • Dud Roodt

          Maybe people are also forgetting that the coaches of the SR teams are professional coaches themselves. With egos to match. Who most likely don’t take kindly to being given instructions from someone who isn’t their boss. This is Australian rugby’s problem (correction: ONE of Australian rugby’s problems): there is no centralised system, so why is Nick Stiles listening to Michael Cheika? Fuck, Stiles probably has eyes for Cheika’s job (as abhorrent as that is to even write). Now this is all me creating a story in my head, but it’s a distinct possibility.
          Each SR team has their own head coach, assistant coaches, trainers, S&C coaches, specialist skills coaches etc etc who all probably think they should be doing it for the Wallabies

        • Brisneyland Local

          I agree, Stiles has some of the best cattle in his paddock and cant do shit! I dont want him coaching the Reds let alone coaching the Wallabies.

        • Dud Roodt

          It would be great to see what Laurie Fisher could do with that mob

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep. Laurie mentoring Brad Thorn, with Brad Thorn taking the reigns in 2 years time. Thats what I want to see.

        • Tommy Brady

          Just amazing….

          And people somehow wonder why rugby in Australia keeps falling further and further behind. Folks are so quick to roll out that “most competitive sporting market in the world” excuse when the harsh reality is rugby is choking itself to death through small minded local parochialism. All this of course from the sport that from high in their Sydney ivory towers consider themselves the smartest guys in the room.

          The entire house is burning. Somehow people are so consumed by local interests to notice.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Got it one Tom

        • Who?

          And that’s all down to governance structures. Because I can’t imagine Dave Rennie or Tony Brown not helping out when Shag picks up the phone. Even though they’re head coaches, with their own assistants, trainers, etc…

        • Dud Roodt

          Bingo

      • Shtinatina

        I’d guess the national S&C have an eye on what the SR teams are doing & probably asking them to do more. But there’s only so many times you can do that. SR teams need to take more responsibility on that point. Cheiks can’t go chasing them down every week.

        • Dud Roodt

          Exactly. Or we do what I think would be best, move to a centralised system where the Wallabies/ARU control every aspect of rugby from the minute a 7 year old kid picks the ball up to the moment he’s singing the anthem at Stadium Australia. *

          *assuming much better people involved in the upper echelons of the ARU

  • Brisneyland Local

    Here’s BL’s view on the Cheika thingy magiggy! I am glad he rang the Jack, I think it demonstrates that to a degree, he is still in touch. Whilst personally I dont think he is the man for the job, he has at leasst demonstrated he has some pride, and is embarrassed by what has happened. Enough to reach out to a symbol of Australia’s pissed off ness!
    Saying he was silly to contact the guy, because it was a pissed rant is just disingenuous.
    Most GAGR’s have read my rants on here, whilst I may use bigger words than Old Jack, I feel his pain and I am pretty sure most Wallaby fans do as well. We are passionate supporters of a game we love. A passionate response is warranted. Of late this is the best thing I have seen Cheika do. Because at the moment it is evident coaching isnt one of his strong suites!

  • Missing Link

    I love the smell of Bill Pulver’s resignation in the morning

    • Not a lance fan

      Why should he go. Do you not know that the problem is that we are the bestest and it is just that the players aren’t trying hard enough or turning up at 8am etc

      • Dud Roodt

        I get what point you’re making, but if he goes, let’s see if his replacement turns the game around, or after that person goes, if the next person does.
        The game is broken, and unfortunately, it’s hard to fix something that’s been rotting for decades, not just since 2013

        • Missing Link

          Pulver’s only success has been launching the NRC and his mismanagement surrounding the consolidation of our Super Rugby teams is his downfall. You are right, the ARU is broken and it needs a new rudder. Pulver can’t be blamed for every minute aspect of how things are run, but he’s the CEO, his responsibility was to point things in the right direction and keep tracking towards success, and he’s failed to do that.

          I would classify his tenure as being “successful” had we:

          Won Lions series
          Launched the NRC
          Won the Bledisloe Cup at least once
          Won the World Cup

          His replacement needs to work towards that (Lions series excluded)

          keep the NRC going
          retain 5 super rugby teams
          win at least 1 super rugby title
          win back the bledisloe cup
          win RWC 2019

        • Dud Roodt

          I agree, as CEO, the buck stops with you. And if he goes, then so be in. I would just urge caution in thinking whoever replaces him will be able to change the path rugby has been on for some time.

          Re your points to succeeding – my god, you don’t ask much do you!

        • Missing Link

          hahaha yes I have always held the Wallabies to high standards and maybe I’m stuck in the 90’s/early 2000’s

          seriously though, we need to get Rugby back on track, and to do that we need to do 2 things to stir things up – Bledisloe Cup and World Cup. NZ are the Goliath and we need to be the David. You saw how Ireland’s win last year signaled their arrival, we need to send a message on the park saying “we’re back”

        • Not a lance fan

          All we need to do is magically fix 20 years of mismanagement of the game in Australia.

          This current crop is the last bunch of half decent players we are going to have in a long, long, long time.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Got to dream high to achieve. I think both of those are bang on and probably achievable with the right culture, team, support and environment

        • Not a lance fan

          Yes the CEO of the ARU in 2 years managing to bring home the Super Rugby title, Bledisloe and Rugby World Cup sounds legit.

          The CEO’s mandate is to get the game in order financially, build a platform to engage the public with the game and build structures that can see us win Bledisloes and World Cups by 2031

        • Missing Link

          The game will be long gone by 2031 mate, we need immediate results

        • Not a lance fan

          I’d like to have a million dollars in the bank. As much as I want/need it, I won’t have it by 2019. As much as we all want to win the Rugby World Cup in 2019, we don’t have the players.

          If we woke up tomorrow and the ARU appointed the hottest CEO from Silicon Valley, cleared their debts, snatched the AFL’s youth development staff and managed to replace Super Rugby with a Tasman tournament on free-to-air tv, it will still take us 10-15 to be in a position where would see the fruits of being in a position where we can attract and identify these players is going to take a long, long time. We’re still moving in the opposite direction.

        • Who?

          If we were to wake up tomorrow doing exactly what you’re describing, we’d be broke within 2 years. Sooner than the current (poor) trajectory.
          Clearing debts takes up a good chunk of capital for this year. A Tasman tournament won’t happen – the NZRU wants the SARU involved. FTA won’t pay a cent for our product, so that means no money to fund the competition the required partner doesn’t want.
          And where do we find money to fund the AFL’s youth development staff?! They’ve currently got 8 in my area. We have 1. The 8 are funded from Melbourne, our 1 is part funded from Brisbane, part funded locally, and part funded by the commercial work they do (and I believe some federal indigenous sporting grants). We don’t have cash to steal those 8 guys…

        • Not a lance fan

          Yes obviously they can’t afford to snatch the hottest CEO in Silicon Valley, the AFL’s youth team, go all in with a free tv deal etc. That was hardly the point, I’m amazed that I have to point that out.

          The point is if money (and practicalities) were not an issue and the ARU had its house in order tomorrow it would still decade over a decade to see the benefit.

        • Who?

          You have to point it out because, the way others are talking on this website, it’s entirely achievable. They aren’t living in financial reality.
          To see the full benefit of what you’re describing, yes. But I think there can be faster returns on other investments. It’s similar to looking at the investment the ARU put into coaching in the mid 70’s. It didn’t really peak until the late 80’s/early 90’s. And then self-sustained another decade or so. But it was only 4 years before we somehow won the Bledisloe back… I think that’s feasible here. That a big long term investment could also have positive results – not complete results, but noteworthy results – in a shorter time frame.

        • ozrugbynut

          How do you deliver instant results (in any enterprise) without the financial input? Pulver and co have cut costs aggressively to put the game on a better commercial footing but the question mark is over their investments imo.

    • Brisneyland Local

      It has the smell of Victory!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Yeah except who replaces him and although I agree he lacks leadership he’s not the only decision maker there. I also think the lack of support for the ARU from the states is a bigger issue and changing the CEO won’t change that

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yes, but bring in a strong and focussed Leader who has skin in the game, empower him/her, and then crack on. It is not an overnight fix, that much I am 100% sure of. But as the old saying goes:
          “You can lead a horse to water……..but it takes a block and tackle to drown the bastard in it!”

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Do you think there’s anyone who can bring a halt to the myopic and self centred states and franchises? I certainly wouldn’t want to fight that losing battle

        • Brisneyland Local

          That would require a total C2 (Leadership – Command and Control) change. ARU, Wallabies coach. Have them lead top down and drive the show. Make the states seem irrellevant, or at least bypass them. Encouragement for compliance and achievement. Punishment or no finance with recalcitrance.

  • onlinesideline

    should we start the QC debate again – he did look good.

    bhhahaha – OK time to go niii niiiis here in Budapest – uuu ruuuu all

    • Brisneyland Local

      There is no debate, he should be back in as Foley had a Barry Crocker

      • onlinesideline

        BL Ive been of this opinion for 2 years. QC is sublime, I know I know he does some funky stuff that may cost us but why is it OK to have Genia do a couple of mistakes a match which usually costs us a try and Taf with his crooked throws which has invariably cost us but NOT QC. The last time we were looking really good was when QC was at the helm in November tour a couple of years ago. He also kicked 7 from 7 against the ABs at the glass house. The guy is incredible. The problem is no-one has backed him properly since EM at the reds. Cheika expects the guy to come on and save the day – too much pressure. Did you see that bullet pass to Izzy on the weekend and then flick pass back to Foley – he’s the only man that can open up the Wallabies – absolutely no doubt about it, they are a different team when hes on. I like BF but he is no international in my book.

        It should be

        09 Genia
        10 Cooper
        11 Speight
        12 Hunt / Hodge
        13 TK / Kerevi
        14 Izzy
        15 DHP

        Izzy is made for close in bustle over the line stuff a la NRL – he can do that on the wing.

        • Will

          What’s his state of mind like though? I feel he crumbles at test level, especially against teams like the ABs that know his weakness is pressure. I’m worried he will put in a sublime performance against Italy and “save the day” only to be the sacrificial lamb on the 1st Bled test bearing down on us.

        • onlinesideline

          my thoughts too – its an unknown. Question is though is his mistakes worth it – I know its an odd way to go about things but just look how sterile and unthreatening we have become with BF now being at helm what for 3 years – dunno mate. One has to ask how much the forwards also fall apart come Bledisloe – tough call but I at end of the day would go with QC to the very end because he can win macthes – Im a massive fan.

        • Who?

          QC’s weakness is pressure?! Wow, that’s a really unusual weakness…
          When did QC last get a Test at 10 (without Foley at 12) against NZ..? I can only think 2013, where he was our best player on the field.
          It’s been 6 years since the RWC in NZ. 6 years. Since then, I’ve seen plenty of people fail to kick restarts 10m, or put them out on the full. They don’t cop it for 6 years.

        • Will

          Sorry mate I just can’t see him handling the onslaught the kiwis will give him. I do think he offers a different and better threat than Foley in attack, but what good is that if he is turnstiling in the 10 channel.

        • Who?

          QC’s no worse turnstiling than Foley…
          And, as I mentioned, it’s been 4 years since he played 10 with a real 12 (i.e. not a fullback converted to a flyhalf playing at inside centre) outside him against the ABs, and 6 years since he had his bad day. And he wasn’t the only one that day, either. How can you be certain that a 29 year old will crack the way a 23 year old did..?

        • Will

          Foley is a way better defender than QC!!!! Why else do they keep shifting his position when defending at test level that’s unacceptable!!

          All besides the point though – we need a change, something to spark some genuine attacking threat. I think the ABs sense that QC could bring it, but will do everything they can to get in his head.

        • Who?

          Yep, Foley’s a great defender – that’s why he shifts back to the left wing, where he spilled a high ball on the weekend…

        • first time long time

          Left wing or hooker on defensive line outs. Do we just expect to never win a defensive line out so the guy who should be organising things is not required in his position.

          The wallabies defensive patterns are an elaborate game of duck duck goose!

        • Who?

          Talking duck, having a flyhalf defending at hooker on lineouts also leaves us very vulnerable to Bombay Duck! Just surprising we haven’t been exposed more there over the years.

        • first time long time

          Not sure if it’s the Bombay Duck but it certainly gives me the shits just watching it!

        • Not a lance fan

          Yeah why not. He has been out of his depth in test rugby his entire career, he’s going to bring it now!

        • first time long time

          You are a bit harsh on Foley, he’s had a couple of good games

        • Not a lance fan

          If he was from Brisbane you guys would be championing him for the World Rugby Player of the Year and crowd-funding a statue in the Gold Coast.

        • first time long time

          Booooooo
          Not a ” Not a lance fan” fan!

        • first time long time

          You mean like the ice one in Sydney!

        • Brisneyland Local

          Will, dont disagree with you But we have no chance of winning it with Nard at the helm and only half a chance with QC. I will take the half a chance anyday. Ask KRL the Kiwi’s love facing Nard because they have got his measure! Most of the time they have QC’s too, but on his day they dont. That will worry the AB’s more than facing Nard!

        • Will

          yep agreed mate.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yep. QC provides the unexpected. I think he tries too hard at times, especially when he comes on late and behind on the score board but definitely another level from BF

        • Brisneyland Local

          Well lets see what Cheika Brains does!

        • Missing Link

          I like that backline except I’d like to see Joe Powell start this week against Italy. Also Naivalu on the wing, Nabuli was very quiet agaisnt Scotland.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I agree mate QC offers so much more in variety than Foley ever will. However, I’d caveat this with keep him at 10 and just Friggen tackle.

          Also for me Hodge and Kerevi with the other two on the bench

        • Brisneyland Local

          OLSL, I have to agree with you. The reality is for us to beat any of the good teams we are going to have to be dynamic and innovative. We will not be like that with Nard!
          Yes QC does some silly things occaisionally, but the counter argument was Nard is dependable. Well Nard isnt anymore he os doing stupid things too, but with none of the brilliace and sublime things that QC cant do. So in BL’s view, lets “Put it all on Black” roll the dice and go with QC!

        • John Tynan

          Maybe mercurial rather than sublime.

      • Not a lance fan

        There is no debate outside of Brisbane.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a lot of changes to the team for Italy. I think QC will start at 10 this week. Foley will be back in at 10 for the Rugby Championship though.

    • Not a lance fan

      The usual “Let’s pretend that we are good and the only reason that we are losing is because Quade isn’t playing”

      Quade Cooper has occasional flashes of outrageous skill that few in the game are capable of doing. The problem is that his fundamentals are beneath the standard expected in elite test rugby. He’s 29, it’s probably not going to change.

  • idiot savant

    While its very clear Australian super rugby players don’t have the fitness to compete with kiwis in the last quarter of games, I still think the real problem against Scotland was that the Wallabies went into the test leg weary. I didn’t think the game was played as quickly as the Fiji game and yet all our players were slow from the start. I reject any assertion that these players don’t have passion. Im damned certain they love playing for their country and give their all. It looked to me on Saturday when they asked their legs to give them some drive, there wasn’t as much in the tank.

    Now I don’t have a clue how they trained. They could have played the equivalent of a mid week game at high intensity over the week as players fought to keep/win a spot in the two side training regime Cheika likes. Or they could have sat around drinking lattes. Underdone or overdone, the effect is pretty much the same (Though I think they would have been quicker in the first 20 if they’d been underdone). So Im a bit nonplussed at the coaching staff media drive to blame lack of passion, fitness levels, and individual players (none of whom have been named) as the cause of the loss. Its a good cover for bad preparation (and I have not even mentioned the game plan). Why couldn’t the coaching staff have followed Brian Smith’s lead on these pages and got behind the boys?

    When Cheik puts the phone down to Quigley maybe he should give Dr Nathan Gibbs a ring and ask him how far to push guys at training so they can give their best for their country on game day.

    • Fatflanker

      I agree – we’re placing too much emphasis on the need to ‘show heart’ when its technical and game plan deficiencies along with poor referee management that are killing us. Cheika is nobodies’ bum as a coach but with his dummy-spitting he is fast becoming the Nick Kyrgios of Australian rugby and absolutely risks losing the change room.

      All is not lost. No question we will be soundly rogered by the ABs again this year however we get the chance to return serve on Scotland and England at the end of the year with Beale in the mix. Couple even a bit of progress towards a competent line out, an effective exit strategy and a resolute determination to take the points on offer and this could still be a promising year for the WBs. Another disappointing EOYT should otherwise see Cheika fall on his sword.

      • Not a lance fan

        Cheika will clearly fall on his sword. The fans are happy to go along with the scapegoating and it will suit the ARU.

        He’s the best coach in Australia but maybe he serves Australia better by working day to day with a franchise.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I agree. While there are a lot of calls for his head, there’s no replacement options. Personally I think he should stay BUT he needs help, more than he’s getting from Gray and Larkham

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Spot on with the first paragraph mate. I agree it’s not a lack of passion that’s killing the Wallabies, it’s poor decision making and a crap game plan

        • ozrugbynut

          Cannot agree entirely. When you see kicks not chased, tackles missed, basic errors it shows a lack of focus and intensity. These guys started like a fifth grade side on Saturday, only switched on in the second half (when the booze starts wearing off). The lack of passion ie intensity is a massive turn off for fans and a contributor to poor on field results, along with the points you mentioned.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I think the errors are more to do with poor decision making than a lack of skills and the box kicks don’t seem planned so the chasers aren’t ready for them. TBH I think most chasers are at best only slightly off side when they chase but it seems to be something the referees don’t care too much about, as long as it’s not too blatant. I think the Wallaby chasers aren’t there because they don’t know when it’s happening and also don’t seem to know where the target area is. Mind you anywhere close to the kicker would be a good guess on the last point.

    • Waz_dog

      I would like to think that the Wallabies coach would already know how to gauge the fitness/freshness/fatigue of his squad or at the very minimum employ someone who does.

    • Not a lance fan

      They do have the fitness. They are just not as good as NZ sides, are over-run and can’t keep it up for 80 minutes.

      The fitness rubbish is just to give the impression that they can turn it around.

  • Nick

    40,000 Facebook likes…that means there’s still at least 40,000 people who care about the Wallabies?! That’s awesome!!

    • Brisneyland Local

      True, and there would be more like me who arent on Oversharebook!
      So lets say approx 50,000 who care!

    • Not a lance fan

      40000 scapegoaters

  • first time long time

    Who was the Reds fitness and conditioning guy in 2010-2011?
    I have not seen a fitter Australian team since.
    A commentator even mentioned quite incredulously that if Morgan Tirinui is looking fit the rest of the team must be in good shape.
    That team ran over others in the last 20 min and you knew it was going to happen.
    Where’d it all go wrong Georgie?

    • Tommy Brady

      The 2014 Waratahs were a very fit side.

  • first time long time

    On a completely different note. A couple of occurrences in the AB v Samoa game gave a little insight into the cold ruthless psyche of the ABs.

    How many times do 3 brothers play in the same test with 2 of them debuting? Not often I’d guess. Yet Hansen pulls BB off 4 min before putting Scott B on so all three were never on together. In a game where they were up by f’loads to f’all he probably could have made it happen so that they got to share that moment.

    Also, after the whistle ABs up by 70 and instead of just kicking to touch and shaking hands they rubbed Samoas nose in it with another try (a country that has supplied many of their test stars). It was a bit bully boy for mine.

    Feel free to jump in with your thoughts KRL, Tomthusiasm et al ; )

    • Dud Roodt

      Allow me to speak for KRL, Tomthusiasm;

      There was nothing wrong with not allowing the brothers that moment – they’re fucking lucky they were picked, every single fucking time.

      There is NOTHING wrong with running a score up*

      * when it’s the AB’s doing it.

      • first time long time

        Thanks Dud now that we’ve cleared that up I’ll pipe down and get back in my box.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Absolutely mate and I applaud it. That ruthless streak is part of the phsych and part of why they are doing so well. Long may it continue.

      • first time long time

        I don’t know, even in the professional era there is still room for doing things in good spirit…. Esp when you are winning by 70.

        I love the way the Lions are forming a tunnel for the opposition. Like seeing players stop to check on the injured eg Leigh Halfpenny on the weekend.

        You’re better than that KRL ; )

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate I like that too and I hope regardless of the score on Saturday the two teams are able to relax together and have a few beers. I always lived by the “what occurs on the field stays on the field” rule. Some of my best after match times were drinking with someone I’d had a punch up with on the field

      • Dud Roodt

        A little something tells me Cheika would be getting a wee blast from your fine self KRL if he did both those things.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Not at all mate. TBH I’d like to see a more ruthless Australia as I’m sure that’d help

    • Attizar

      The AB’s looked pretty serious about this game and made the most of it to prepare for the Lions series. There was little thought for sentimentality for the Barretts or the opposition. I don’t see it as disrepect though.
      I just wonder what the reaction might have been if there was a major injury in the last play.

      • first time long time

        If there were 15 major injuries in that last play we might be a chance come Bledisloe ; )

  • Brisneyland Local

    Hey GAGR’s just a side note. It is great to see passion back on this site. I was worried things were dropping off and going quiet! Was worried that people were dropping away from the site and the game because our teams (SR and Wallabies are crap).
    Good to see you all back with passion, interest and healthy debate!
    Keep it up boys and girls!

    • Huw Tindall

      It’s brilliant. Haven’t seen comment counts like this on daily news since RWC15 or some form of Quade click bait!

      • Brisneyland Local

        It is good isnt it! I am glad that all and sundry are enthused and that it is mostly positive! Shows there is still passion out there.

  • Bobas

    I hate to start this topic again as I can see others talking about it. I just don’t know who to respsond to.
    My 2 cents is that for any athlete (even the non elite) fitness is always at least 50% mental and in some cases can go to 67% mental.
    You can train in as much as you want but the body is always willing to give more than you think.
    I hate to use the example of Jarryd Hayne as an example, so let’s say a young George Smith getting the lowest beep test score and skin folds still able start a test match and then be running around like he’s chasing the first kick off during 2nd half injury time.

    • Not a lance fan

      The fitness stuff is just guff.

      We’re just not as good as Wallabies teams of years gone by. There are a couple of good players (ironically they get smashed here) and the rest are ordinary. This is a result of the lack of kids playing the game and how the best kids are leaning towards other codes of football. The game has been neglected here in the shortsighted hunt for the dollar, and in latter years the shortsighted hunt for the South African TV peanuts.

      This is going to get exponentially worse as the game slides into irrelevance and the AFL and Soccer make aggressive plays for the youths of the country. Our only saving grace is that the NRL is a shambolic organisation but we are not seeing the benefits of their cock-ups. They still make a net gain from us.

      Anyway, Scotland are not mugs, they are a decent test nation, and we have no divine right to beat them. Results like this will become more frequent.

      The likes of this Quigley character get lots of “likes” for their rants as they are scapegoating.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Bobas, I was in the Military for over 20 years and we did truck loads of studies on this stuff. Whilst there is a more scientific way of expressing what I am about to say, the jist of it is:
      Physical fitness and mental toughness are symbiotically linked. Physical fitness acts like a buffer and is eroded til it runs out and then it is mental toughtness that drags you through.
      Or words to that effect!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Sybiotically! Fuck had to look that one up mate :-)
        100% correct though. Fitness gets you to the fight, mental toughness gets you through it and heart gets you winning

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yeah sorry I sometimes forget my roots, and become the corporate wanker that I am accused of being! ;-)

    • jamie

      The US Navy SEALS have a saying that when they feel they’re about to collapse, they’re only at 40% of what the human body can truly endure. Mental barriers are the highest to overcome.

  • Bernie Chan

    Cheika is ‘taking the piss’ if he is using this as escape…not fit enough? He has been the National coach for some time. Seems to me that our Wallas lost because they played tactically inept rugby, and that rests with the coaches as they send the team out to play a certain way.

    • Not a lance fan

      “He has been the National coach for some time” What should he have done then?

      I don’t believe that the players are not fit enough, I believe that they are not good enough. Cheika is selling “hope”.

      He’ll just be forced out like the rest of the top coaches have been since the turn of the century while the fans play the scapegoating game.

      • first time long time

        Ok so you disagree with just about everyone so….. Either you are right and everyone else is an idiot or the converse is true.
        I have my thoughts on the matter.
        Ratchet it down a notch.

        • Not a lance fan

          Or there is a clique of vocal Queenslanders on here like yourself who know f.a. about the game.

        • first time long time

          I’ll leave that up to others to judge….. And I don’t mean you.

        • Bernie Chan

          Haha…! Wait…what? Only QLD rugby fans are worried about the way our National team is going….I had no idea…

        • first time long time

          To be clear Bernie… Only Qld rugby fans who know f.a. about the game.

        • Bernie Chan

          OIC…sorry, me bad…

        • Not a lance fan

          Is that what you got from that? Really?

        • Bernie Chan

          Get it bra…But then again I know f.a…

        • Dud Roodt

          Show me on this doll where the Queenslander hurt you Not a lance fan

      • Bernie Chan

        Link was forced out by “player power”. His position was actively undermined by a clique of senior players. Cheika may be ‘selling hope’ but everyone can see through the message. He is the National Coach…if he thinks ( and most of us don’t…) thinks the team is not fit enough then the coaches (Larkham, Grey et al as well…) should accept responsibility for that and say as much…did they lose because they are not fit enough? I don’t think so…IMHO they played tactically inept rugby and lost a game they should have won.

        • Not a lance fan

          Why should they have won? Because we are Australia? People like you need to get their heads out of their arses. Australia does not have a divine right to win games and have struggled to get past Scotland in recent years. A Scotland side which has beaten a better team than Australia very recently.

          You would hope that Australia would win home games against teams like Scotland but the days of walkovers are over. They are tough games. Australia are no longer in the group of the top 3 rugby nations, they are in the chasing pack.

          The glory days for Australia are over no matter how much you vilify the coaches or the players.

          Maybe selecting “Quade” is the missing piece of the jigsaw, eh?

        • Dud Roodt

          Fuck you’re comin in hot Not a lance fan!

        • first time long time

          All day ref!

        • Bernie Chan

          Take a chill pill bra…”people like me…”? And what is that precisely….? Oz should have won in the context that they had ample opportunities to score points (They spurned easy penalties….) . They didn’t so Scotland deserved the win. There is no aspect of any “divine right”, but Scotland are ranked #8 and missing players to the Lions squad in NZ…That does not cover up the fact that the Wallas were woefully inadequate in tactical acumen and basic skills, and the coaches are the ones responsible for the strategy, so the buck stops with them….

  • kp

    I just read where Quade Cooper shot down Jack Quigley as a keyboard warrior who was just throwing barbs. He finished with the phrase “That sort of stuff, I’ve got no respect for it”.
    ( http://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-union/quade-takes-aim-at-rugby-keyboard-warriors/ar-BBCVoPz?li=AA54yd&ocid=spartanntp )

    Quade, we the public are the only reason you gat paid you moonhead. If you we stop watching and stop attending games, rugby dies in Australia and you get no more money!

    Jack Quigley said what we have all wanted to say to the Wallabies, so stop being a snowflake millennial, man up, and accept the critical observation. We can see your are not giving your best.

    For some light relief, here is an example of giving your best, albeit from Hollywood (now pay attention Quade):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUKoKQlEC4

    • Not a lance fan

      Cooper is right.

      • Who?

        Finally, we can agree on something!!!
        I’m not happy with how things are, but I find it completely off base to say that the players aren’t giving their best. No one was out there shepherding the opposition to the tryline. No one was avoiding making tackles, or taking tackles.
        We’ve heard this since the Deans days (if not before). But the one thing that I don’t think we’ve been able to say since Robbie took the team was that they didn’t give their all.

    • Kev

      Cooper wasn’t necessarily aiming that at Jack.

      In any case, Jack’s post is stupid. It just makes unfounded accusations and points fingers. Too many Wallaby ‘fans’ like him can’t take a loss. As soon as we lose, the blame game begins. It’s never that the other side is good its its because oooo the ‘players don’t care’….

      I was pissed that the Wallabies lost but I think to accuse the players of not caring is misguided.

      He does have a point, however, when he talks about players putting more training in to make sure they sharpen their skills.

    • kp

      I am sorry guys but I really disagree.

      My friends and everyone else at my local rugby club have also been saying it for years – these wallabies have no ticker. Even ex-wallabies have also said it, one as recently as right before the game.

      You can see it watching these guys in their support play (or lack of) and in their efforts to get to break downs. It’s like watching old men with arthritis lumber around the field and the other sides know it. All the other team have to do is play up tempo and aggressive rugby at the break down and eventually these new snowflake wallabies will crack.

      The players need to own it, they will find it character building.

  • Nicholas

    On the fitness issue, I remember from either Eales’ or Macqueen autobiography that the first year when RMc took over when the players came into camp all they did was fitness for 3 or 4 weeks including a test on the Saturdays. No game plans etc just fitness. I guess RMc identified the need for a higher level of fitness for test matches back in 97/98 i’m sure that step up in fitness is still just as important today.

Rugby

Hopes to play David Pocock in the inevitable biopic. Lifelong fan of whoever Jarrad Hayne is currently playing for.

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