There’s been an interesting discussion going on in the forum about James O’Connor’s 2009 as a Wallaby. Was it a gamble on youthful talent that paid off, or did it expose inexperience at crucial times?
Longer term, where do his skills fit into the Wallabies, and is he the right package of a player for the modern game? Here’s a few clips to help the discussion.
Tags: james o'connor, youtube
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The missed tackle on Smith that allowed Smith to stroll over the line for a try should’ve been included as well – that was a royaly shocker.
JOC,
has been playing out of position….he was easily the best 12 out of the australian super teams. He is a freak of a talent and has incredible vision. It will be very interesting to see how he goes at 12 this year.
he is no where near the best 12 in the country. he has been running off giteau into space, half the backs in australia would look better doing that at super 14 level.
giteau
barnes
cooper
beale
AAC
Carter
are all in front of JOC when it comes to the wallaby 12 jersey
Beale and Cooper?? You’re kidding.
yep, cooper is a given, he just pretty much played the entire spring tour there without embarrasing himself. Beale i think is a stronger player at 12 than JOC, JOC is a kid, in years to ome he wont be, but he looks like a kid trying to hard and he doesnt seem to have to much playmaking ability in him, simply a finisher, good for some, not for the current game plan the wallabies play.
Disagree, I think JOC is a capable playmaker. Also you are judging his playmaking abilities from fullback which is obviously different to inside centre.
I remember he set up a good try for Ryan Cross earlier in the international season and also a few tries during the Super 14.
Interestingly you say JOC looked good for the Force as he ran off of Giteau, then you say that Cooper played there as well and looked good. Cooper was also running off of Giteau in the Wallabies.
There is absolutely no way Carter is ahead of OConnor, and AAC should be playing 13. And you are having a laugh saying Beale is better than OConnor.
OConnor made some stupid mistakes, but that was mostly to do with his nerves playing for the Wallabies. A bit more experience and those nerves will go. Also, his decision making will improve with a bit more experience. What he did do though was willing to take on the opposition and back himself – mostly he pulled it off, but at times didnt.
I see OConnor as our long term 12. Giteau will be gone after the next world cup I think, and I see Barnes as the long term 10, with possibly Cooper playing there too. Also Toomua as 15 in the long term.
There is no way that Beale and Cooper compare to Barnes, Giteau or Adam Ashley-Cooper. But yes, they are all in front of JOC when playing in the 12 jersey.
Yes he had a few shockers and they were at bad times too, but the last one shown when Cory Jayne took the ball right off his finger tips could have been made by anyone and in my view he has been unjustifiably hung drawn and quartered for it. Sadly even called a coward.
O’Connor came in for the high ball hard and fast and then checked himself when he realised that he could take it without going into the air. It was at that moment that Cory leapt up to snatch it right off JO’Cs finger tip air space.
The real lapse, in my opinion came when whoever was chasing Cory made such an ineffective tackle when he really was in striking distance for a good tackle.
As for Smith’s try I would like to see that again because my recollection of it was that two or three Wallabies got in each others way and gift wrapped Smith’s stroll to the line.
But JO’C has shown me, at least, that he’s a player with the rare gift of split second vision coupled with some extraordinary strength in the tackle for such a slightly built guy. The number of players he’s capable of beating when he has a metre or two of space reminds me very much of Christian Cullen. He’s also got some pace, man has he got pace.
Altogether he’s the most exciting talent to come out of all three of the SH super powers this season. Not even Brusow (sp) is the excitement machine that O’Connor is.
He’s got a few things to work on like his kicking and maybe his defence, but the raw material is there in deep rich veins.
He has played out of position this year and I would hope that he moves from reserve fullback for the WBs to reserve 12 if Gits plays there for the national side. I don’t think there is much doubt that John Mitchell will want him as his first choice 12.
Dont agree with u about the Corey Jane Try. If latham, Burke, AAC, Even MItchell was at fullback i doubt corey would have scored (for one the AB’s wouldnt have even tried to put up a bomb and secondly the other fullbacks would have held their ground much better). Although i do agree with u about the other stuff. He’s a rubbish fullback but i think he’ll be a fantastic 12.
That pace in the Baa-baas match is phenomenal, he also had an awesome kick in that match too.
I think he’s a hit, it’s just exciting when he gets the ball. Definetly someone you want coming off the bench though, just until he’s a bit older.
Theer are less low lights there than what I was expecting. Maybe he wasn’t sooo bad.
LOL at the commentator’s voice cracking when he yells “SPIIIESS!!!!111″, I laughed pretty hard. I’m sure Spies could have just run over JOC for the try too, he didn’t need to side-step and give JOC his legs to grab, though good on JOC for grabbing a hold of that monster and not just slipping off, Lomu-esque.
I think JOC is a good player…but he is just inconsistent atm, but I think that’s just with his age and on the stage of sport he’s in. Give him 1, MAYBE even 2 more years, and he will be PHENOMENAL, game-in, game-out.
I’d like him so much were if he weren’t such an arrogant twat. What I wouldn’t give for Richard Loe to come out of retirement and mess his hair a touch.
The last 12 months has been an excellent learning experience for him. He is more than just a finisher, he has performed some very impressive off-loads and is one of the most elusive runners in Aust rugby. I think he will go a long way towards putting it all together in the 2010 S14 season.
Yeah but he’s still a twat
That’s friggen Un-Australian.
Topo Rodriguez once told me Loe was the nicest guy you’d ever meet off the field, but a prick with ears on the paddock. Paul Carozza’s nose never deserved that smashing in-goal after he scored back in da day. JON is a bit of a tool but bare in mind he’s young and has a lot of people kissing his ring at the moment, how would you cope..? I don’t think I would have been as mature. Richard Loe-act was a turd of the first order.
^&^%$ken Un-Australian. Pull your head in.
He is a talent there is no doubt. Who can bag him for inconsistency. You would have to level that accusation at nearly every Wallaby this season.
It is hard to accept that at just 19 years of age he has made some really good players from around the world look very average this year but has countered that with some absolute blunders. He made Parisse look a total goose and he is rated up North. I also seem to remember a certain David Campese was a bit like that. Could lose you a Lions series with a monumental brain snap but win you a RWC Final with seemingly inhuman brilliance. You have to take the good with the bad.
I wouldn’t write off Beale or Cooper either. Beale needs to be given time to make a position his own. He has lost some speed by bulking up but he can work on getting that back with good mentoring. Cooper has to sort his head out and grow up but considering he was asked to cover for one DB in the AI’s he did a good job for a novice playing out of position.
This was JOC’s first season in the big time. All said and done I think he acquitted himself well.
JOC is ready. He is probably the 3rd best 12 in the country. He is still in a league ahead of Beale.
time, space, this is something that players with great vision, running ability and flair thrive on.
Yeah great tackle from Nonu and you wouldn’t expect anything less.
However, the mistake O’Connor made was setting up for an outside pass. Had he decided to have Ma’a on my guess is that he would have beaten him easily on the inside channel. He wasn’t looking to have a go, he was looking to pass. It was just delayed a fraction too long and he paid for it.
I’ve seen Dan Carter caught like that by Ma’a too. Sorry don’t have the video evidence to prove it.
when will Sydney Uni get rid of that hack Carter. See he was hit in a big tackle too.
yep, difference was, never said tommy was a playmaker with the spacial awareness and instinct, nor was he trying to offload in that clip, he took the hit up (like a man, qld players could learn from that, we gave you latham in the hope you would learn in fact!) O’connor was ‘playmaking’ and as i think (my opinion) he isnt a playmaker, but as ive said, he is an excellent gap runner!
he does it a bit, its just cos he is young, it will be a testing year for him not having giteau next to him to call him round the park, having a different player could result in him stepping up or having a shocker, there is a certain comfort young players get from having consistant starters around them.
time will bring him up to speed, i just dont think we had any need to rush him based on what he has actually provided for the wallabies, a number of player could have brought to the table what he did and im not sure it actually helped him in the long term any more than a few games of park footy would have
I say JO’C is a great player but it is a shame the current state of Aust rugby has meant he has been promoted (both on and off field) too quickly.
He has the most talent of any player at his age in Aust since Ella and will be unstoppable in 2 or 3 years time.
I think his long term position in 12.
Juan. Actually I think Beale has the most talent of all our young’uns. Whether he realises it and reaches his potential or not only time will tell.
There are enough people who have watched Beale come through school and the junior ranks who believe he has more potential than Ella did. For his own sake and for the Wallabies as well I hope he comes good.
Still JOC is something out of the box, there is no doubt.
I recall another poster during the year saying something that was very appropriate for JOC, something like: When he gets ball in hand you can be assured that a try is coming up, the problem is there is no guarantee it will be for the team he is playing for.
Give him time to mature and work on his compusure, and then he will be a great player. I would suggest Deans sends him over to SAfrica for the next Currie Cup like he did with Toomua and he will come back a better player.
he sent toomua over for the currie cup?? thats a bloody good idea, didnt know we were allowed to do that.
See following link to the Forum:
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/index.php?topic=9373.0
I am not sure if it was a direct request by Deans but I’m sure he had a hand in the arrangement somehow.
Don’t look now, but I think something resembling depth is coming back into Aussie rugby. There are legit arguments to be made over who is the best 10, 12, 15 in the country. JOC, Beale, Cooper, Gits, Barnes, ACC etc.. are all in the running. Granted its not the best group of players in the world at those positions, but at least there is some argument. Deans’ policy seems to have worked, and I think JO’C was brought up as he was for just that reason. Keep AAC, Barnes, Gits, Beale and Cooper aware that their positions are under threat if they slack off.
Having said that, you I think JO’C’s year was pretty much what you expect from a super talented youngster. Got off to an excellent start, showed how good he with even a tiny bit of space, but struggled with some things when he was under defensive pressure. He will learn. And then he will be really good. And he should be a 12, he just seemed way more dangerous standing in the line instead of joining out wide. Looking forward to his Super 14 season.
I like your thinking there CR
He is the real deal. He has qualities that can’t be coached. How many other players do we have (or does anyone have) with the same spatial awareness, and the same quick decision-making ability in traffic? Not many, perhaps zero.
All he lacks is experience at the top level, and we’d be stupid not to give it to him. Two years out from the World Cup is excellent timing.
Anyone who has issues with his mistakes or lack of size should ask themselves what Campo and Shane Williams brought to their teams. And to be fair he’s not nearly as small as Shane or as clanger-prone as Campo, and he’s young enough that he will develop on both dimensions.
So he’ll get smaller and more clanger prone?
nor is he likely to win a game for us as williams and campo do and did!
he is a glory hound chasing his own tail, saying he has spacial awareness and quick decision making is one thing, but him actually using it in the extra traffic that first class test rugby is against the top five or so nations is another thing, if we were playing italy every week, he would be up to speed.
Look at the video again tahj, four or five of the guys he wrongfooted on the burst were All Blacks and another four or five were Springboks. If that’s not functioning with superb spatial awareness at the top level in heavy traffic I’d like to see something that is.
The evidence doesn’t fit WJ’s argument (that he created a year ago, same thing’s happening with Pocock), so it’s being ignored.
Truth is he’s the best stepper we’ve got at the moment. Gits isn’t bad against props in the line, and AAC uses his right fend and gas on the outside.
The only other stepper like JOC is Tyrone Smith, and for whatever reasons, he isn’t getting the international airtime.
yep, he beat the springboks from fullback on a blindside dart in broken play with no risk of a try being scored for a total of 4 metres, then he beat some all blacks running sideways after mopping up the ball badly, then he went on a burst don the wing (set up for him) then beat a few again, again running sideways not towards the try line or support in the hope of gaining more metres or possibbly setting something up.
gagger, i have my own opinions, i remember calling me bias and saying the only reason i didnt like dick brown was cos he was from the force, my opinion is as justified as yours from your glass castle in gay old europe! a viodeo someone made that has the two good things he did then misses the forty five defensive and positional mistakes he made for the purpose of discussing this doesnt represent who he is as a player.
as i said, in time, he has the tools, his head isnt there yet and it will be a big year proving he is good enough without gits service.
I guess the smokey in all this could well be Will Chambers if he takes to the game next season.
All good Wallaby teams, and rugby teams in general, look great when they have a direct running 12 playing outside a ball playing 10.
Look, O’Connor is a really young guy playing international rugby, he’s going to make his mistakes. I think it’s better to get him out there working through rookie mistakes now. By 2011, he will have had a lot of matches under his belt and will be a help for the Wallabies. I would rather have him on my side than playing against me-and this kid could have chosen to play for New Zealand (Where he was born) or South Africa(where his grand parents were from).