Wednesday's Rugby News - Green and Gold Rugby
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Wednesday’s Rugby News

Wednesday’s Rugby News

Wednesday’s Rugby News has a broadside from Morgan Turunui, Rocky Elsom: angel investor angel, Beale needed for Bledisloe, and Karmichael Hunt chat. Rah!


Turinui Terror

HMAS Morgan Turunui has fired a broadside at the ARU, in a rampacious chat with rugby.com.au.

“Our players are under a lot of stress,” said Turunui, the Rebels’ backs coach. “It is really starting to wear thin.

“We haven’t played well, we haven’t won enough games – that’s a separate issue.

“But Andrew Cox looked me in the eye, shook my hand and said the Rebels will be here for years to come.

“The exhausting thing is that the rumours continue to circulate. The fear in our team at the moment is that there is some element of truth to the rumour.

“But from what we have been told – from what Andrew Cox has told us – we are probably the most safe club because we have a private owner that will not sell to the ARU.”

Turunui’s perplexion continued:

“[Rebels owner] Andrew Cox, a bit over a month ago, stood in the middle of the field with all players and staff and said that we are 100 percent safe.

“He said he will never sell this club to have the ARU close it down. On the back of that we beat the Brumbies, and then the rumours came back again. The players have been dealing with these rumours and they’re debilitating for them.”

And Turunui wasn’t done yet – he had RUPA in his sights.

“The issue we’ve got here is that my players are reading the media and they are being debilitated from a mental health perspective. We have genuine issues and worries with our players.

“We need them to represent the players – that’s what RUPA is all about. I was on the board of directors at RUPA so I know exactly what their charter is – to protect the rights and the working conditions of the players and their wellbeing.

“No one cares about a newsletter that RUPA sends out, no one cares about tickets to players that RUPA can provide, they’re there to look after the players.

“RUPA need to step up, the way the ARU have handled it is an absolute disgrace.”

Between Rocky And A Safe Place

Former Wallaby Rocky Elsom is leading a consortium seeking to buy the Melbourne Rebels, reports the Daily Telegraph.

Elsom and his gang are presumably doing so to save the Rebels for being cut. An advisor to the gang is none other than GAGR friend, Bob Dwyer.

“It is just basically a group of people who want to put up some cash to stop the Rebels going down,” Elsom told the Daily Telegraph.

“It’s to keep Super Rugby in Melbourne and to make sure the boys there have a place to play and their families have what’s been promised to them. It sounds like there has been an offer from the ARU to close it down, which in our view is totally unacceptable.”

Elsom has been involved in club ownership before, being part of a consortium that took over French club Narbonne in 2011. The Daily Telegraph says that the Daily Telegraph earlier reported the Rebels’ buyout price as being $6m. Any sale would require ARU approval (!) and Elsom has even admitted that the procedure of buying the Rebels’ licence “is a bit murky”.

“The group is trying to talk to both at the same time,” Elsom said. “But the ARU seems pretty adamant they need to cut a team. We totally disagree with that, in the short term and long term.

“That is ludicrous and extremely expensive when you consider they’d lose more private investment as well as investment from the Victorian government, which is well into the eight figures for them.

“It is a very expensive exercise that is not something that meets any of the goals of Australian rugby, or gives any consideration for the families and players who moved down there and made Melbourne their home.”

Meanwhile, Victorian Sports Minister John Eren has issued a call to Andrew Cox to speak out on the whole shemozzle.

“Following the meeting between yourself and Peter Sidwell on Wednesday 9 May, I can confirm the government is giving consideration to a form of assistance to secure the future of rugby in Victoria,” Mr Eren wrote in a letter, says the Herald Sun, who probably buried this story under a 5-page expose on what a 18-year-old fringe player for St Kilda thinks of Leonard Cohen’s 1974 album, ‘New Skin For Old Company’.

“We require you to inform us you will not accept any financial offer by the ARU to purchase your licence while we evaluate the need for government support and the method of payment should financial assistance be deemed necessary.

“In order for this occur, a public announcement of your ongoing commitment to keeping the Rebels in Victoria must be made as soon as possible. I require an urgent response to this prior to any meetings with government progressing next week.”

Horan Hears A Who

Tim Horan has said a lot of things to the SMH, mainly that the Wallabies can’t win the Bledisloe can’t win the Bledisloe without Kurtley Beale.

“If we’re any chance of winning the Bledisloe Cup and the Rugby Championship, you have to have a fit Kurtley Beale,” Horan said.

“If Kurtley Beale doesn’t play the Rugby Championship, the Wallabies will not win the Rugby Championship. That’s how important he is to the team. You’ve got to have Kurtley in the team somewhere.

“For the June Test match series, I’ve got no problem with Kurtley having a break. It’s a pretty long series over in the UK and he’s got a few more games to go.

“You probably could get him involved in the last Test match in Brisbane against Italy. If I was Michael Cheika … I’d give him a bit of time, let him have some down time to see his friends and family and then slowly ease him back. Do we have to rush him back? No.”

As to where Beale will play, Horan reckons he should play at inside centre.

“You’re going to have to have Kurtley and Izzy in the team in the back line and I’d like to see Kurtley at 12,” Horan said.

“I think he gets more touches on the ball at 12. But then again, you can easily play him at 15 and put Izzy on the wing. I don’t like Izzy at 13 and I’m not that comfortable with him there, more so defensively. When you’ve got a really good player like Samu Kerevi there or [Tevita] Kuridrani, you’ve got options at 13. If they’re injured, yep, Izzy’s your next choice.”

Horan also reckons that the ARU should do all they can, which let’s be honest, isn’t much, to keep fellow Queenslandaaaa Sean McMahon.

“Sean McMahon, after Michael Hooper, will captain the Wallabies,” Horan said. “He’s a very strong leader. He needs to mature off the field more and that will happen over time. If he stays in Australia, he is the next captain after Michael Hooper.

“He’s a wonderful player and you’ve really got to invest in these players who are 21 to 24 [years old] because they’re the players that are going to be taking you into the World Cup.

“However, it’s a balancing act between trying to compete with what the dollars are on offer offshore and the opportunity to play in the gold jersey. Sometimes you’re not going to keep some players because of the difference in the dollar.”

Folau Hunted

Michael Cheika has told rugby.com.au that Karmichael Hunt is “genuinely” a chance of nabbing the #15 jersey from untouchable Israel Folau, the most lithe man in the world.

“Hunt has improved out of sight this year,” Cheika said on Fox Sports’ Kick and Chase.

“The energy he’s put into the game, just his aggression and his attitude has been quite inspiring for the other fellas who have been playing alongside him and he has really put himself into the frame, more than.

“We had him there or thereabouts just to have a look at him but now he’s genuinely in the frame.”

Meanwhile not only has Michael Hooper had his say on Hunt/Folau, but so has Quade Cooper. Spoiler alert: they split on party lines.

“I’ve been impressed by Karmichael’s willingness and desire to play hard rugby,” Hooper told Fox Sports. “Particularly playing (against) him a couple weeks back, he was wanting to get involved, wanting to get his hands on the ball. I’ve really been enjoying watching him play because you just want guys who are fronting up and just trying really hard.

“[However] I know Izzy’s a very consistent performer and has been one of our best performers in the Wallaby jersey for however long now, so I’m not expecting things to change there.”

Quade: “He’s got a lot more to give. He’s one of those guys if there’s a big moment in the game, he’ll step up to it.

“You put him in a gold jersey and he’s going to find even more in himself,” Cooper told AAP (via Fox Sports). “You can see he’s starting to play the game a phase ahead. He knows not only where the space is, but where the space is going to be.”

** While you’re here, Check out GAGR’s Wallaby Ladder, where Rugby Reg looks at who should start for the Wallabies.

  • Dean

    I’d be watching Ricky Elsom closely regarding the buying of the rebels. After his handling of the last club he owned lets just say he won’t be going to France anytime soon

    • Pearcewreck

      What happened to Narbonne?

      • Ricky Johnson

        Im pretty sure its now a balance sheet item for an Arab investment fund first, and a rugby team second.

      • Dean

        I’d like to tell, but the mods will shut me down for legal reasons

  • Andrew Luscombe

    Not sure what these quips about AFL coverage in Melbourne are for.

    The fact is, the amount of talk and media on all aspects of Aussie rules (drafts, salary caps, young player development, the draw, etc, etc. ) in Melbourne means that Aussie rules is run way better than rugby. AFL (and even lower league) administrators can’t be unaware of issues. They know that competitions need to be competitive, they know to support player development, they know all teams need equal access to players, and they know how to make these things happen.

    If the rugby community Australia wide had even a reasonable fraction of the knowledge of sports administration that exists in Melbourne, rugby would find itself in a much better position.

    It’s probably ironic in the context of Nick’s comment that rugby administration is making its whole sport less important than a St. Kilda fringe player’s view of Leonard Cowen. I guess he was having a poke at the futility of rugby in Melbourne, but really the joke is on the rugby community as a whole.

    • Muzz

      Wow, Melbourne and Aussie Rules must be great.

      • Andrew Luscombe

        Great in comparison to the way rugby is run, definitely. Just competent when compared to the running of most other sports.

        There’s no reason a competitive rugby team in Melbourne in a well run league can’t draw a reasonable crowd. When the Rebels started, they got good crowds. But the off field rules were slanted against new teams in a strange competition format and we get to this.

      • Funk

        it depends on who you ask…

    • BigNickHartman

      Nup. Won’t forgive the AFL for constantly undermining other sports in the media – eg Kevin Sheedy was popped up to spout crap about Folau during the Bledisloe last year http://www.smh.com.au/afl/greater-western-sydney-giants/afl-2016-kevin-sheedy-wants-greater-western-sydney-giants-to-bring-back-israel-folau-20160906-gr9mwq.html

      • BigNickHartman

        also, their handling of both Essendon (Cronulla did the same thing, resolved it in two weeks) and Adam Goodes was atrocious

        • Andrew Luscombe

          Both trivial for the success of a sport compared to having competitive teams where there are markets for those teams playing in a sensible competition.

        • BigNickHartman

          I’m talking about AFL and the media. You’re extended this to how well it is run. Related but not the same discussion. Also to compare the AFL to Super Rugby is a bit of a misstep; it’s not apples and apples

        • Andrew Luscombe

          Your point in relation to the media wasn’t clear. Still isn’t. Maybe you were trying to make fun of trivial coverage, but you get that in plenty of areas of the media.

          I’ve obviously raised a side issue to what you said, but that’s okay in a comment isn’t it.

          Is SR so different that it doesn’t need to field competitive teams in new markets, or any market? Can undermine it’s own salary cap? It’s a sport, it’s not that different.

      • Missing Link

        The AFL would be happy to destroy all other sports

        • Andrew Luscombe

          Rugby is damaging itself quite well without any AFL help.

          Just cause you don’t like them doesn’t mean you can’t learn things from them.

        • Missing Link

          you’re not wrong, I didn’t say I didn’t like them, but they’d be happy to see the demise of the other football codes at least. They also had an issue with cricket a few years ago, wanted to kick victoria off the MCG so they could push the grand final back a week.

  • Brisneyland Local

    Interesting words from Tim Horan. I disagree with the whole Kurtley Beale piece, regardless of how good a player he is he should not be representing our country!
    The Sean McMahon comment is very interesting, and I hope the ARU are moving heaven and earth to keep him. But in reality that means they are doing nothing!

    • Valzc

      Everyone seems to have forgotten that Beale could barely make the Wallabies bench the last World Cup. Oh how absence makes the heart grow fonder!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I think there is so much dismay about the results this year that people are grasping at straws and focussing on what he was good at, but forgetting his flaws that kept him on the bench.

        • Brendan Hume

          He was amazing for Wasps last week in attack. The Aussie teams seem to be struggling at the advantage line to create opportunities – Beale is a player that can deliver that attacking spark.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I’m not sure that he offers more than Kerevi and Kuridrani offer and both of them have a much better defence.

        • Braveheart81

          Kerevi’s defence is awful. His ball playing is also not nearly good enough at 12.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Really? I’m sorry but I have to disagree. I think he has all the skills needed of a 12 and defensively way better than Beale will ever be.

        • Graeme

          Kerevi has the skills, and he is young. But he is a natural 13, not a 12. He works best when he has a bit of space, he’s not a natural distributor when under pressure. Also Beales defense has improved over the years. Kerevi regularly misreads defense. I think it is something that experience and good coaching will fix, but for the moment the main reason Kerevi is not a write-in for starting, is his defensive positioning.

        • Simon

          We often see that, though – Australian players carving it up in Aviva but then unable to replicate that success back in Australia. Kane Douglas, Leroy Houston. Even George Smith – he was best player in the entire Aviva competition last year, back here he’s not even the best Australian 7.
          I think it’s highly likely that Beale’s form for Wasps is more down to easier opposition than a genuine step up in performance.

        • Braveheart81

          Beale’s form at the RWC and prior to injury in 2016 was great. His form since returning from injury has been great. I don’t think it is solely related to the competition he is playing in. Anyway, we’ll most likely get to see soon because he’ll presumably be in the starting XV for the Wallabies at some point in the June test series.

        • SuckerForRed

          Part of me agrees but I would like to make a couple of points:
          Re Houston – Due to injury we really haven’t seen that much of him.
          Re Smith – Depends entirely on what you are looking for in a 7. (And no I am not going to start that argument again cause we all just end up backing our own man.)

        • Pearcewreck

          Exactly, BH.
          We need Beale.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I would rather sign satan himself! If he was a good back!

        • Pearcewreck

          Maybe, and I suppose Satan in just Santa with the letters rearranged!!

        • Brisneyland Local

          Santa would be a piggy! Need someone a little more sly and cunning for a back so satan it is!

        • Nutta

          Probably more of a blind-side flanker.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Very true, I should have thought of that. Like the thief in the night!

        • Funk

          C’mon, he is the master of the dark arts…he’s a prop all day long!!!

        • Nutta

          Fair point. And more of the aggro loose head variety than the benevolent meat-wagon tight head sort

        • Brisneyland Local

          But he is a disgraceful human being. He will continue to destroy the teams culture, or what there is of it!

      • MungBean

        I can’t stand the guy but Beale was Australia’s best bench player and should have played in the final ahead of Folau

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I’m happy for him to be in the team that plays us mate. I still enjoy watching Nonu make him look like a 2nd XV reject when he scored that try in the RWC final

      • Pearcewreck

        Good on ya!!! Glad you enjoyed that.
        What, are we meant to agree with you??
        Keep your Kiwi gloating to yourself, or go elsewhere.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Ha. Sorry mate. More of a reference to his play. I’m not sure that he is going to be the saviour he is being painted to be. Absolutely he has some good attacking skills but I dont think these are good enough to balance his defensive deficiencies and I think Kerevi is a way better 12

      • Brisneyland Local

        I have to agree with you KRL.
        He is not the man I want in the squad. I think he is a sub standard person!

      • Brendan Hume

        Geez I reckon that’s harsh. I’m certainly no apologist for Beale – I think he’s been a genuine wanker in the past – but he looks to be playing good attacking footy at the moment, and I’d hope that he’s sorted his off-field stuff out.
        He should never have had to make that tackle after Nonu moved through about 6 Wallabies into the space ahead, and Kurtley slipped over. If slipping over after running his ring off to be in a position to be in front of a ball carrier makes a bloke look like a 2nd XV reject, the thirds would look pretty bloody good.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Perhaps a bit harsh but I think he was a bench player for a good reason. Yeah he has some good attacking skills, but he doesn’t have a good defence and in the past his attacking skills disappear when he’s pressured. I really dont see him as the saviour he’s being made out to be and I think Kerevi, Hodge and the like are far better options

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          And sorry but he didn’t run his ring off to get in a position. He was full back and got caught out by a simple swerve that showed up his defensive weaknesses for what they are.

        • Brendan Hume

          I think you’re letting your dislike for the bloke cloud your judgement – I don’t blame you, he’s a bloke who’s easy to dislike but that try doesn’t show anything other than a bloke slipping after being stepped by Nonu. He’s not the first player to be made to look silly by an AB’s back line, and he won’t be the last.

          On the selection – the Wallabies always have seemed to be better with a ball playing 12 : Horan, Flatley, Giteau, Toomua… Kerevi is a good footy player, and I like him very much, but I can’t see him unlocking an AB’s defence – and really, that needs to be the goal of the Wallabies. I’m not certain Beale is the option either, but Foley at 12 didn’t work great and there isn’t an abundance of options there that are ball players – maybe Godwin?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Fair enough and happy to agree we see things differently.
          Maybe Goodwin is an option but I’m not sure Kerevi can’t do what you want. When Nonu first started he was crap at distribution and had to work hard to develop that part of his game. While it’s important I think having someone who can crash forward and always make the advantage line as well being a solid defender is more critical. That’s where Foley fell through. I think a better option would be to have Kerevi or Hodge there with the critical skills and develop their distribution skills to expand their game. I don’t think you’ll ever get Beale to do the crash through and tackle requirements and I think they are more important

        • Brisneyland Local

          Foley should never have been played at 12. He was in bad form so they should have dropped him to the bench. But instead because he is one of Cheika’s boys, he is moved to 12 and played out of position. Not his fault, he is not a 12 and should never have been put there in the first place! That is a coaching fuck up!

        • Adrian

          I think Foley was tried at 12 to try and get a flat backline working with Cooper also playing. It didn’t work, just like Cooper at 12 outside of Foley didn’t work. Cooper is a deep backline only player, and Foley a flat backline only player. Most NZ 5/8 are flat specialists too, but can play deep

        • Brisneyland Local

          I think that is how it was sold, but the reality is they couldnt drop Foley.

    • Ricky Johnson

      I’m guessing your view with Beale is predominantly in regards to the text saga? If so, what are your views on Michael Hooper?

      • Brisneyland Local

        That is part of it. The other incident when he was with the Rebels and he punched his team captain in the face on the team bus after the game, whe KB was injured and not even playing after a few drinks. that is just an apalling human being. The money he cost the ARU in out of court settlements to DI Patston would have funded grass roots rugby for a year!

        • Braveheart81

          He hasn’t put a foot wrong since 2014. He’s coming back to Australia and will be selected for the Wallabies. No doubt he was culpable in a lot of the issues that happened in 2014 but he was by no means alone in bringing the ARU into disrepute.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I agree he has improved since then, but morally, and standards wise his behaviour was worse then any of the others by a country mile, and he was given barely a wack on the willy with a wet towell. His transgressions were appalling and he should never have been kept.

        • Braveheart81

          The fine handed down to him was the highest the ARU has ever applied. The ARU did want him sacked but due process in front of an independent committee found that there wasn’t cause. Anyway, this is three years ago.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yes but any other employee in the real world would have been sacked and then sued. The reason that the ARU settled out of court was so the full details were not aired, and the other players involved which was a few, in fact a lot, didnt go down with him. This would have been catostrophic for the ARU but particularly NSWRU.
          The ARU bowed down to the push from NSWRU to keep him, and they stacked the board to ensure he stayed.

        • Chinese Dave

          Really? Worse than actually committing an actual crime?, you know, burglary for example, or assaulting police officers in a police station, or possession of cocaine? I reckon if he was a Reds’ player, there’d be whole lot of commenters here supporting him who hate him (and a whole lot of haters who are now supporting him).

        • first time long time

          That’s horse shit CD

        • Chinese Dave

          Wow, what an eloquent and convincing argument, how wrong I was!

        • first time long time

          I am a man of my convictions CD, horse shit I say. It’s not an argument, it’s a statement.

        • Brisneyland Local

          CD, I understand your point. But work through the follwing. QC went through legal action and mediation, and was exposed to due process, and wore the consequences. Higgers, is now going though that due process and may yet face legal action. The people who got caught with the cocaine are going through due legal process now. KB, did not. He didnt even face assault charges for punching his Captain in the face. Nothing, in the real world he would have gone for Assault Occaisoning actual Harm. That one carries a jail term. Yet it was swept away. That is bloody disgraceful. Then repeated sexual harrasment of a collegue/ team official. Regardless of who she was or whether or not there were issues for her removal from her role. But systemic and repeated sexual harrassment is a crime, as this was not an isolated incident. And because the Chicken shit ARU were to scared of the full details going public, it was swept away. He was given a big fine, whopp dee do. Any one else convicted of that, which he was not, would have lost their job, their livelihood, their reputation, and a criminal conviction or two. Nothing for him! He is earning a Gazzillion in Englad, and will earn more when he comes home. And this doesnt include the full list of indescretions that he has had. Read Nutta’s comment. This guy is a recidivist, a habitual repeat offender! It is disgraceful that he wears the national jersey!

        • Chinese Dave

          Mate, let me be clear, I’m by no means defending Beale. My point is that he is judged harshly pretty much on state allegiance lines. Yes, he’s gotten away with a lot of shit that people who aren’t good at Rugby would never have gotten away with. But he’s not the only one. Normal people don’t get to just “mediate” away a burglary. Normal people don’t get to just mediate away a domestic violence charge with a tearful press conference. If I had my way, non of the people who I’m thinking of would be playing Rugby professionally (except for Hunt, I don’t think cocaine should even be illegal, and I don’t consider his crime to have actually hurt anyone, at least not directly). Sadly, that’s not the case. As to Beale’s recidivism, well, if he’s kept his nose clean for a certain amount of time, you can no longer call him a recidivist by definition, the only argument is how long that time is. Bottom line, at least in my opinion, is that if this whole thing wasn’t tied to Link and didn’t have a strong Tahs vs non-Tahs split, people here would be far more forgiving, that’s what’s bugging me about the whole thing.

        • Brisneyland Local

          CD, didnt think you were defending him and you are right on the behaviour of a lot of them, and their ability for it to dissapear, whether it has gone through due process or not. My concern, like with all other codes, is that a lot of people excuse excessively bad behaviour just becausee they are good at kicking a pigskin so to speak.

        • SuckerForRed

          And that is the main problem I have with the situation – “He’s coming back to Australia and will be selected for the Wallabies.”
          Wouldn’t it be nice if the “improvement” that he has shown in England was tested in Super Rugby before he was handed a gold jersey. We have seen it in the past where players have gone to other comps, were absolutely killing it, but couldn’t continue the form in Super Rugby because it is so different from the game played else where in the world.

        • Brisneyland Local

          SFR as always a wonderful comment!

        • Braveheart81

          The same will apply with Will Genia who will slot straight back into the 9 jersey. There would probably be less inclination to select them straight away if our terms weren’t coming 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th and 17th in Super Rugby respectively.

        • SuckerForRed

          And I would agree BH. There is a further comment I could make but then I would be seen as just picking on Beale so I won’t.

        • Ricky Johnson

          Mate I agree 100% and in no ways am defending him. More, can you name a workplace where you’d still retain your job based on what the captain did?

        • Braveheart81

          What did the captain do? I think Beale would have retained his job in many workplaces. I don’t agree with it, but sexual harassment is repeatedly shown not to be a sackable offence.

        • Ricky Johnson

          One of the reasons why Beale got off lightly was he was the one that forwarded on the texts, he didn’t create them and he wasnt the one that originally put the pictures in circulation.

        • Nutta

          Ok, so am I allowed to join in yet? You can’t say I haven’t kept my word…

        • Braveheart81

          Go for your life Nutta.

        • Nutta

          Look. I wrote war & peace. But we have heard it all before and I have a budget to review so I’ll make it quick: How many 2/3/4/5/6 chances do you want to get? Absolutely nothing I have seen of this guy warrants the on-field reputation he has and just about everything I keep hearing of the guy warrants the off-field rep. Bear in-mind we are talking about a guy who has public-record history of belting team-mates, knifing coaches, abusing women including in public on sponsors ticket to the point where team-mates had to restrain him, and then he still lied & cried about it. He has pissed chance after chance that most of us would kill for up against walls and became such a toxic influence that no one genuinely wanted him around. No one was seriously crawling over broken glass to get him to stay. And now it’s all “Hey, welcome back Saviour”? The best comment I heard in relation to the famous Flight to Argentina was simply this: “Say that to my missus and you better ring the cops and report yourself missing mate. Then hope to Christ they get to you before I do.” Seriously, how do you contemplate someone representing all that rolling out in our national jumper? In terms of the on-field, no one ever doubted his ability to attack. His acceleration and ability to poke through a gap is great. But his high-ball management is still atrocious, his frontal defence is shocking for someone with so much training invested and his self-anointed distribution skills may have cut it in School-Boys but not since. Over-invested, under-performed and cannot be relied on except to disappoint.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Here here! Couldnt have said it better myself!
          Tip of the hat, Nutta! Tip of the Hat!

        • first time long time

          What he said!

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Spot on mate

        • Chinese Dave

          So what’s your opinion of the continued involvement of Julian Savea in the All Blacks if you judge Beale so strongly?

        • Ricky Johnson

          Hes a once off dickhead, not a recidivist dickhead.

          A better comparison would be Beale to Zac Guildford. Ironically, who gave Zac his 2nd Super Rugby chance?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I’m not sure what you mean. My opinion on Beale is mainly based on his limited ability on how he plays. I don’t think Savea has the same weaknesses. Savea has a good attack and defence. In the past he’s gone a bit missing on the field so he got dropped and learnt to pick his game up. Why would you compare them
          Sorry just read the context. Forgot where this was in the Dixus forum. Yes Savea was a cock and conducted himself in a manner that was not acceptable. The difference is he did it once, paid the penalty, learnt from it and has never done it again. Big difference.

        • Chinese Dave

          Well, I’m pretty sure beating up your partner is a fair bit worse than being a cock, and I’m also pretty sure he didn’t pay the penalty that non all blacks pay when they beat their partner up.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          You must know something I don’t mate

        • Die Hard

          Yep. I join the queue of agreement

        • onlinesideline

          maybe the ARU are shit scared at looking like they are racist against an aboriginal guy – I always sniffed that. There are quite a few well heeled Sydney blokes who took KB under their wing too who probably have influence.The ex Joeys / Sydney Grammar / Mosman influence runs pretty deep through the Waratahs and ARU.

        • Nutta

          1st comment – no comment Dude. 2nd comment – there are plenty of folk who over-invested in him imo. I remember seeing him at School-Boy trials at Riverview one day. There was some really nasty shite said in the grandstands about him basically for being black which was disappointing at the simple human level. I see the over-investment more from the hope that he (along with his other idiot mates) was a wild-card who just may, on the back of sheer ability, paper over the lack of proper set-peice forwards at the time. Remember that 1st Lions test? If he had cleaned his studs and kicked that goal we won the serise and no-one would remember the fact our scrum was embarrassing as the win would of dissolved all faults. What do they say about sales fixing all problems? Those boys were the wall-paper for far bigger issues. That caused all the over-investment and then no-one could back away without destroying their reputation.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Please join in!

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Go for it mate

        • Brisneyland Local

          That is because it is handled in house like Beale was. If it had gone to the Administrative Appeals tribunal like it was meant to, he would have been farked!

        • Braveheart81

          Why would it have gone to the AAT? They deal with Australian Government decisions. The only reason why an employment decision goes to an external tribunal (Fair Work for example) is if one party (generally the employee) doesn’t accept the decision of the employer.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Sorry it is a long time since I did my law degree. I as you correctly pointed out was incorrect, I meant FWA. Which is where it was headed but didnt get there. I am now officially over my Beale rant! I limit my pissed offness to 24 hours only! ha ha

        • Brisneyland Local

          Not one! And there lies the problem. The team and the ARU, and NSWRU are cultrally broken.

    • Nutta

      I promised a while back I wouldn’t get involved in any more Beagle slag-outs. But I’m still allowed to clap from the sidelines…

      • Brisneyland Local

        Clap away my man clap away!

  • McWarren

    Ah Tim you were once a great player.

    • Ricky Johnson

      We all know only one person is qualified to offer an opinion on Australian Rugby, and that is Matt Burke.

      • McWarren

        And us of course!!

        • Nutta

          No. Only Matt Burke.

        • Pearcewreck

          Met him once, he borrowed a bottle opener off my us in Sydney Botanic Gardens, about yr 2000 I think, seemed like a nice enough bloke too.

        • Nutta

          He probably is. But it was still a dumbarse comment for him to make. That said, if I was castigated for every dumbarsed comment and thing I ever did my diary would be pretty full for the next, well, millennia.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Havnt heard a dumbarse comment from you yet! But then again I havnt been drinking with you Nutta! That is where my best ones come out!

        • Chinese Dave

          Did he give it back?

        • Pearcewreck

          Yep.

  • first time long time

    Can someone explain how KB goes from being a bench player in 2015 to walk up starter in 2017 after spending 2016 injured and playing in Eng for a season?
    Are we going to have a 10-12 combo that both defend on the wing?

    • Braveheart81

      His form as a bench player at the 2015 RWC was excellent and his form in England has also been excellent. Meanwhile the Wallabies have struggled and 12 is an area of weakness.

      • first time long time

        Bench player and Eng my points exactly.
        The guy is a liability in defence no matter where he’s playing. I’m with KRL the ABs will be licking their lamb chops if he is at 12 beside Foley

        • Braveheart81

          What about Kerevi? He’s leading the competition for missed tackles and isn’t a good ball player.

          Hodge is obviously the other option for the 12 jersey. His defence and ball playing are better than Kerevi but running game isn’t as strong.

          I tend to think Hodge might play the first test at 12 and Beale will get a crack after that.

          You make it sound like there are backs the All Blacks would actually be really worried about facing…

        • Missing Link

          Hodge should seriously be considered due to his goal kicking

        • first time long time

          What about Kerevi????
          It’s pretty tough to prosecute an argument against one of the best performed outside centres in Super rugby over the last couple of years in a poorly performing team.

        • Braveheart81

          His best rugby has been at 13 and that is where I think he’ll get picked (although Kuridrani may get picked ahead of him due to his superior defence).

          Kerevi’s defence is an issue. I also don’t think he’s likely to get picked at 12 due to the shortcomings in his passing and playmaking game.

        • first time long time

          He’s not even top 5 for missed tackles on the site I just looked at but has over a km of run meteres, most defenders beaten, bucket loads of offloads and 5 tries.
          Like I said tough argument to prosecute but give it a go by all means
          Rugby.com.au

        • Braveheart81

          I think he’s a 50/50 shot to play 13 with Kuridrani. I don’t think he will get picked at 12.

        • first time long time

          I think he should be the 13 but agree he is not going to walk into it.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I think Kerevi’s issues are that he is a natural 12 not a 13. 13 is a much harder position to defend, in fact IMO it’s the most difficult in the team as you have to factor both inside and outside plays as well as the general plays going on. When Kerevi plays at 12 he is a much better defender and is still able to create the space needed outside. I agree that Hodge is also good, I personally think Kerevi offers more that’s all.

      • McWarren

        BH I like the idea of Beale on the bench. He is finisher and showed that at RWC, I like others have a doubt about his front on defence, but I love seeing him hit a gap in a tired defensive line.

    • adastra32

      The rugby he has played for Wasps, and well, has been mostly at 15.

      • SuckerForRed

        Don’t worry, we will play people out of position so that we get the “best” players on the field.

  • Adrian

    Based on what he’s done in the past with Beale, I think that there is no doubt Cheika will use Beale at 12 when it gets to the Rugby Championship.

    This is because he’ll coach to maximize his own skills (coaching flat backline only) Beale’s skills (flat backline amongst other skills), the skills of Foley (flat backline only), Genia (flat backline and other skills), Gordon (flat backline to some degree), Powell (potential flat backline, bur not yet), perhaps Phipps (flat backline only).

    It’s not that Beale wouldn’t be good at fullback, it’s because he wants him (I’d say desperately) at 12.

    Cheika will probably put 15 on Folau’s back, but probably play him more and more at 14, with Hunt effectively at fullback (but wearing 14). He might phase this in by using DHP instead of Hunt, depending on fitness.

    Beale will “unlock” Folau, and Folau will take (catch) most of the kicks.

    People forget that until Folau came along, we dropped more kicks than we caught, and Cheika said so at the time

    • Brisneyland Local

      I agree with your logic, but this whole thing of playing players out of position. I.e. Hooper and Pocock. And now if you are correct and Ado I dont doubt you, especially after your great tips last week. If Cheika puts Folau at 15 but plays him as a 14, and puts Hunt as 14 and plays as a 15, why dont we just put them in the proper numbers! Does that make sense?

      • Adrian

        LOL, it certainly makes sense Brisney.

        I think it’s all about ego!

        I think Cheika understands this stuff pretty well.
        It goes like this:

        The kids in the schoolyard think fullback is cool these days, and have done so for a while. They think that wing is the position for the last picked guy. Not cool!

        Cheika tickled Folau’s ego by switching him from wing, where he was first picked in Rugby, and almost always picked in Rugby League.

        He killed 2 birds with the one stone, in getting a dedicated player, and a great catcher.

        Cheika didn’t and doesn’t mind “hybrid” players covering 2 positions (wing and fullback in this case). It’s often happened before, with Campese an example (wing, 5/8 fullback at various times in a game, but wearing 11, which he made “cool”…for a while.

        I’ll explain the Hooper, Pocock thing sometime. Suffice to say he used it as a solution to the issue he was having with trying to fix up what he discovered was a lack of nouse and basic skills in a team he inherited.
        He felt that he needed to keep both guys in the fold also via their leadership to overcome the split that occurred via Beale, Di Paton, Hooper and McKenzie. As I understand it, McKenzie contributed a fair bit (which cant be made public) to all of this, which is why he’s disappeared,…but will hopefully return.

        Pooper did the job in the short term, aided and abetted by Gireau, AAC, Genia and Co. Moore played a role too, even though he wasn’t and isn’t a natural fit with Cheika.

        I think that almost any other coach would have fxcxxed this up big time, but Cheika got us to a WC final.

        I think he’s ready now to do things his way, without worrying about internal issues.

        Expect a flat backline and big brutes of forwards

        • Brisneyland Local

          I agree with all of that Except the McKenzie bit. That stink was started by the players. The ARU wouldnt back McKenzie on what he asked for, the players got enboldened and the ensuing mess occured. The mutiny was of 6 players doing andd they all wore blue! But it wasnt one event, the Di Patston issue was just the straw that broke the camels back. A series of things including the distribution of match winnings, the Dublin bar incident and a couple of other disciplinary issues were the catalyst.
          The ensuing legal fight came because the ARU got strongarmed, and they knew they could never sit in a court room, or the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. That would have led to serious embarrassment for the ARU, NSWRU, and would have destroyed carreers. Which it should have been allowed to have done.
          Sunlight is the best disenfectant for bad culture.

        • Adrian

          Fair enough, and yes, there was a straw re camel’s back etc. Players (some) thought there was hypocrisy in timing of suspensions, but there is a bit of McKenzie’s own non-public behaviour that meant he couldn’t stay.
          I won’t go any further re him.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yes that became very public, but when the players threaten the coach with going public on that one, it is a mutiny and utterly disgraceful. Ewen Mc resigned and fell on his sword, but the rest of them other than KB’s fine got away scott free, and not only that have had their postions entrenched but enhanced. I think the whole thing stunk to high heavens. And they protected there own. At least Ewen had the dignity and integrity to do what he did. The others are F$%^*& disgraceful.

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    I wonder how Hunt feels about the comments from Cheika, Hooper and Cooper being expressed out in the open media. Especially Hooper knowing that if he gets on instead of Folau he may not have Hoopers total support.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Well that was the problem with the Wallabies previously. There were factions in the team. NAd the Waratahs faction was dominant and caused issues when the other players of there ilk were not supported. I.E. The Dublin bar incident!

    • Adrian

      The comments were just “support my own teammate” sort of thing coming from guys who were rostered on to talk to the media yesterday. Nothing in it

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I’m not sure Hooper’s are quite that, let alone how Folau feels about Chieka’s. I’m of the school where publicly you only say good things. Negative coments are for private one on one only as regardless of intent they can cause ill will amongst team members and that’s never a good thing

        • Chinese Dave

          I’m pretty sure, there isn’t a negative word in Hooper’s comment about Hunt and not a negative word in Cooper’s about Folau. Basically Hooper says Hunt is great, but I think Izzy is the best (I disagree BTW) and Cooper is saying Hunt is the best put him in.

          One of the most annoying things on this site is how time and time again everyone reads into comments from players. Mostly they’re just inane comments without too much thought given in a quick interview and over here we analyse them like it’s the Communist Party of China Chairman’s annual speech. (and I say this as Chinese Dave!)

  • Moz

    And over in the West, rugby participation is growing in the primary schools.https://www.rugbywa.asn.au/news/rugby-booming-in-western-australian-primary-schools/

    With Australian rugby union’s national footprint up in the air, Western Australia continues to stand up and be counted for, further establishing its stronghold as the third biggest union in the nation in terms of participation.

Rugby

Hopes to play David Pocock in the inevitable biopic. Lifelong fan of whoever Jarrad Hayne is currently playing for.

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