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Wednesday’s Rugby News

Wednesday’s Rugby News

Wednesday’s Rugby News looks at the impending decision regarding Israel Folau, the resting dilemma facing the Waratahs, a loophole preventing a Reds young gun from playing and the English player earning awards for being best on and off the field.


Folau set for termination

Folau celebrates his second try.

Folau celebrates his second try.

Reports are suggesting that Israel Folau is set to be sacked after all three members of the independent panel appear to have agreed that his use of social media warranted the punishment.

The verdict is expected to be announced on either Wednesday or Thursday, with panel chair John West, Kate Eastman and John Boultbee all excepted to support Rugby Australia’s desire to terminate the Wallaby star’s contract.

Along with this option, the panel could decide to suspend and/or fine Folau for his actions, however, the termination of his contract is looking likely as it will only take two out of the three members of the panel to trigger the tearing up of his contract.

Folau will also have the option to appeal the decision, however, this appears to be unlikely due to the mounting legal fees along with changes to his social media, which have removed mentions of rugby union with messages about being “Team Jesus” and “God First”.

The whole saga has had damaging effects across Australian Rugby, most potently within his Super Rugby team, NSW Waratahs, with their coach Daryl Gibson expressing his sorrow about how the affair has escalated to the seeming point of no return.

“Obviously I think he’s an incredible talent. That’s probably what’s been lost in this, is the fact potentially he’s going to be lost to the code,” said Gibson.

Gibson revealed that despite his controversial posts, many of his Waratah teammates have reached out and visited him to show their support and care for their embattled teammate.

“Israel is still a teammate. We still care for him and that will continue. There is still a range of options still on the table for him and we’ll learn his fate this week.”

Despite the media attention and drama that has followed the team, Gibson refused to place any blame on the side’s poor performances on the attention caused by the saga.

“We’re never going to use that (suspension) as an excuse for our performance and if you look at our performances it’s not because of Israel,” Gibson said.

Waratahs leaving it late

One of the players yet to have a rest under the Wallabies load management policy

One of the players yet to have a rest under the Wallabies load management policy

Like their push for the Super Rugby Finals, the Waratahs will leave the mandatory resting of their Wallaby players until the final rounds of the Super Rugby season.

The Waratahs currently sit fourth in the Australian conference and will look to begin their quest for the finals with a victory against the Reds on Saturday, attempting to record their 11th straight win over their rivals from the north.

However, the Waratahs still have a number of Wallaby players that are required to be rotated out of games as part of the Wallabies’ World Cup load management policy.

The side will have to rest five of its Wallaby players over the remaining five games, with prop Sekope Kepu and Rob Simmons yet to miss a game, along with players such as Michael Hooper who have only missed one out of the expected two-game allocation.

This presents significant challenges for the side heading forward, with their precarious position ensuring that they will be forced to play must-win games with weakened squads against the likes of the Rebels, Jaguares and Brumbies.

This didn’t seem to face Gibson who was unfazed by the prospect, emphatically stating that any rotations would be managed at a later stage (speaking like a true procrastinator).

“The strategy from here on in is we know we need to win games and we can manage the back end of the season when we get to it,” said Gibson.

The return of Tom Robertson during their trip to South Africa appeared to open the door for Kepu to sit out a game, however, Gibson has indicated that it wouldn’t happen against the Reds this week, despite praising his return.

“Tom’s had an excellent return,” he said. “He’d be close to a start this weekend…It’s an opportune time for him, as we approach times when we know we’re going to have to rest Sekope at some point and we’re looking to try and grow Tom’s time on the tighthead side.”

Lucas ineligible for Waratahs clash

Isaac_Lucas

The Reds have been forced to rule out Isaac Lucas from their squad for their derby clash with the Waratahs on Saturday as a result of new eligibility laws regarding Junior Wallaby availability.

Rather than lining up at fullback for the Reds in a must-win clash against their old rivals, the NSW Waratahs, Lucas must report to the Junior Wallabies on Saturday for their first day of camp in Sydney.

This verdict comes after a change of laws regarding the eligibility of Under 20s players towards their Super Rugby team during the World Championships, which requires the sides to play a certain amount of minutes in order to keep priority over their availability.

Unfortunately for the Reds, Lucas only played 199 minutes in the first six games, which fell under the threshold that was set by Brad Thorn and his fellow Super Rugby coaches at a meeting last year.

Thorn was given the bad news regarding Lucas on Monday by Rugby Australia national talent manager Adrian Thompson, who affirmed the need to enforce this ruling to ensure that sufficient time is given for preparations ahead of the World Championships.

“Brad supported the idea at the initial meeting last year and was understanding when we discussed the situation with Isaac,” Thompson said.

“If you make exceptions this week, there’s a different one next week and we’re back to coaches meeting their best Under-20s for the first time on the flight to the world titles.”

The timing of this ruling could not be worse for the Reds, who are stuck at the middle of the Australian Conference log jam for the top spot, which sees them 6 points behind the Brumbies and 5 points behind the 8th placed Rebels.

His exclusion adds to the injury woes of the Reds, who will be already without regular fullback Hamish Stewart who is still recovering from a shoulder injury.

In Lucas’ absence, they are expected to gamble on either shifting centre Duncan Paia’aua back to fullback or rushing back Aiden Toua, who is just returning to training after a knee ligament tweak.

Goode times keep rolling

T

To end on a lighter note (because in this climate, it seems like it’s needed), after leading Saracens to their third European title with victory over Leinster 20-10, star fullback Alex Goode has decided to keep the celebrations going beyond the post-match dressing rooms.

Goode was named European Player of the Year on Saturday and has added the title of biggest party animal after being spotted celebrating in his match kit long after the conclusion of the match.

His exploits were documented by teammate and Scotland winger Sean Maitland on Instagram, which showed Goode still in his full Saracens kit on Sunday evening, including boots and mouthguard, whilst downing drinks at the pub with the caption “Different Levels”.

Goode appeared to be continuing his bender according to his Twitter, which confirmed that he was still in full kit whilst tweeting out the addresses of his next stops.

Despite being named European Player of the Year, England coach Eddie Jones has repeatedly overlooked the fullback, emphatically stating that he does not fit the mould of what he wants at the fullback position.

This has caused confusion amongst many pundits, particularly Saracens Directors of Rugby Mark McCall, who was full of praise for his fullback and admitted that he was struggling to understand why he was continually overlooked.

“It does bother me because we want all of our players to get what they deserve. He has been so brilliant for our club for so long that sometimes it is hard to fathom,” McCall said.

“It is not in our control. What is in Alex’s control is how well he plays and most people think he is playing pretty well. He is superb with the younger players. When the internationals do go away he has been captaining our team. He is a really important member of the club.”

Whilst refusing to comment on his relationship with Jones, Goode was full of praise for his teammates, saying “Every time I step out onto the field for Saracens it is a privilege for me. I love this place.”

Whilst his performances on the field may have not convicted Jones to select him, surely his efforts off the pitch should warrant a spot on the plane for Japan.

UPDATE: It appears that his bender has finally ended at 10 pm (EST), with Goode tweeting “Over and Out” with a photo of his full Saracens kit.

  • Kiap

    Keep the young blokes focused on under 20s and build their Super minutes gradually instead of throwing them in as the team’s saviour. These players end up crocked before they’re ready or, worse, just get worn down and stay down. Even Quade, a thirty year-old veteran, has admitted the weekly physicality has smacked him with less than a season done.

    • Nutta

      Morning & Agreed. We have a historical unhealthy habit of feeding blokes up too early. Over-enthusiasm, lack if real player depth and development and a lack of general managerial maturity has cost us (and is still costing us) an enormous amount over the years.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Absolutely mate. No matter how good they are there’s still lots to learn and their bodies need time to mature

  • Happyman

    With respect to Israel F I would make the following comments around his contract.
    I listen to a NFL podcast and one of the commentators who played in the NFL for 10 years always says the same thing about contracts and money.
    What fans think is the business is the sport and when fans think it is the sport it is business.
    He also makes the following point which is where I come from in this debate. Any professional player is not paid to play the sport almost without exception they would do that part for free. What they are paid for is the Monday to Friday where they do rehab, fitness and sponsor work. I am sure that after this sorry episode is finished Israel would be welcome to play Rugby at any club in Sydney. But given he is unable to abide by a requirement of a professional he would just not be doing it for money.

    I would always wish him well in the future but he has done a great deal of damage to the game I love and his legacy will be tarnished by his behaviour.

    • Anonymous bloke

      Morgan Turunui said something similar about the business/sport divide – and pro athletes being willing to play for free – on the last Rugby Ruckus podcast.

    • Ian

      Well said,

      I love the man, but hate the behaviour.

      Do what you need to do, but don’t do it here.

      • Happyman

        And that is the point that has been lost in this debate it is not a binary situation.

      • AllyOz

        Funny, that’s what IF said.

    • Andrew Luscombe

      It remains to be seen if he has damaged the game. He has certainly brought a lot of bad press towards himself, and probably cost himself a lot of money – money which incidentally will be available to RA for the “good of the game”.

    • Richard Patterson

      Wish NFL Podcast is that Happyman?

      • Happyman

        Mate hit up Golic and Wingo they do all sports but during NFL season it is just about all NFL

        Adam schefter is also good

        • Richard Patterson

          Got it – thank you pal.
          Mike Florio does a daily Podcast on ProFootballTalk which is typically good.
          The MMQB do several good ones – especially Albert Breer.
          On The Ringer network The NFL Show and the GM Shuffle with Mike Lombardi are both solid.

  • Hoss

    A conversation with God.

    It’s time to let you in on a secret, I am not entirely a person of faith. Like my politics I am a centrist. Not the left of atheism or the right of fanaticism but in the juicy, agnostic centre. Add in a healthy dose of ‘couldn’t really give a shit’ and you will find me there. Raised a Country Catholic with the accompanying guilt and it was everywhere. Wheetbix and guilt in the morning, chicken roll side of guilt at lunch, look at hot girl at school – guilt. Mum would question me in public ‘Hoss you’re not thinking of masturbating are you’ – ‘mum, we are in the newsagents it’s ok and beside I did it at the butchers – did you see that lamb’ (maybe I am a kiwi). Church would roll round Sunday say a few nursery rhymes and bing-bang-boom I start the week on none-fa and offend my head off.

    Eventually grow up, marry a wonderful women, through osmosis I get converted to Anglican. Now, let’s be clear. We all know COE is not a real religion. Some Catholic King was taking the piss so he could root, literally and figuratively, more French gals – solid enough reason for mine. Married by a Bishop and here I am today.

    Now, i admire people of faith. Some use it as a blanket to keep out the darkness, some a shield to protect against all, some a scalpel and some a sword. Many use it as a mixture of all those things. But for me faith is like a large Macca’s hot fudge Sunday – under no circumstances am I fucking sharing it.

    So when Izzy said he had been talking to the big Kahuna, I thought, fuck it, why not me ? God might enjoy the chance at a conversion ? Surely it’d be a waste of time on an atheist and Jehovah must be sick to fucking death of hearing all that babble on Sunday’s ? What do you learn from surrounding yourself with ‘yes’ people. No, in my mind I was a potential catch for any deity looking for a win.

    So off I went with one large obstacle – how does one speak with the GLOBAL CEO OF LIFE ? Where would one turn in this brave new millennia? So I began at the beginning with those who proclaimed piety and righteousness. I tried the usual channels – Alan Jones (after speaking with the big one upstairs I can tell you Al is in for a rude surprise come eternity) no good. Tony Abbot, The Big G had said attempts were taken to talk with Tony but got jack of waiting at Naru and ultimately gave up. Apparently the heat was pure hell and the WiFi was shit anyway. I even reached back to my Catholic past and tried a Cardinal. Apparently he currently is only allowed one visitor a week for 15 minutes and to be frank, I wasn’t keen on a rectal inspection by the prison guards, although the cardinal’s representative was keen on the idea and asked me to record it? Then it finally hit me – get online.The 2019 version of the bible, Google. A few clicks later there it was http://www.godislistening@gmail.com. A couple of lines, a bit of Hoss prose and two minutes I heard the angelic ‘ding’ of my inbox – we’re on.

    Below is a transcript of the reply relating to Rugby only. I will post the chat about God’s plans for South Australia another time. Hope you like locusts – anyway, here we go.

    For the sake of reading ‘H’ is Hoss and ‘G’ is the ‘Great Omniscient Deity’ or the preferred hipster street name – GOD.

    After all the formalities about being the light and the way and all that formal shit we discussed rugby.

    H – well thanks god for taking time out to chat we me.

    G – no problems Hoss, good to be with the GAGR faithful, avid follower of your posts and go the Tah’s.

    H – Nice attempted deflection G-Dog. Lets cut to the chase. One of your flock and I paraphrase to save time, has posted that all ‘poofs, piss-heads, rooters, looters and shooters are headed south for a very long summer. Where do you sit on all this?

    G – thought this question might come up Hoss. Look, I love Izzy, solid citizen and look I did write some things a few thousand years ago after a few too many vinos. Not entirely who I am today, but what you gonna do. But I would say this though my intentions are never truly known, even by my flock, I move in mysterious ways

    H – Fark, that’s a golden cop out and your quoting Bono. as well.

    G – Love his music

    H – Who doesn’t. So Shit goes wrong and you say but ‘yeah, it’s all a bit vague anyway’

    G – I prefer the ‘vibe’ Hoss. (Smiling and taking the piss)

    H – Gold G-Dog.

    G – Look let’s put the cards on the table. I dont like the Nearlies and too be honest, the islands were a mistake. I was playing drink bingo with my eldest, we turned about 12 litres of water into wine and I woke the next morning, looked at Jesus and said ‘shit I don’t remember making that ! Fark golden boy, how much did I drink last nite?’. So I’ve got this poxy little island, middle of nowhere and thought fuck it – put sheep on it. People turn up, see the sheep and their off like a brides nightie.

    H – Solid thinking, but…..

    G – Too fucking right but !!! 200 years later there’s an army of darkness worshipping ‘Arty’ – now I’ve check my good book and I’ll be fucked if I know who that is. Anyway, they chant, they dance, they slap don’t even get me started on that Ritchie guy and I thought‘ no fucking more’. No more offside, no more shit eating grin from that coach (he’s on my shit-list by the) enough is enough and it it ends and ends now. I thought about plagues and locusts, accidental ‘mother nature’ incident (fuck she come in handy when I have a score to settle) But then it dawns on me, it’s not about hurting them, it’s about helping us. It was a revelation – some bastard really should write a book about this shit. So I look for a messenger. Someone devout, someone well placed to help me pull off this cunning stunt and there was one of my flock, with form and I thought ‘yep, this might just work’. So anyhows, I whisper in Izzy’s ear he publishes his thoughts and wooshka – he’s gone and events are taking shape.

    H – How’s does that help the gold?

    G – Fuck Hoss. Have you seen Cheika’s selections he’s a fucking goose, I am sorely tempted to send him south just for that alone, I mean there’s sin’s and there’s sins – Spanners at 10 is bad enough, but at 12………..

    H – Hang on. Your telling me you did all that so the wallabies would have a more rounded XXIII and better chance in Japan?

    G – Told you I work in mysterious way. The gold are a lock now my friend. Not even Segall could stuff this up now. Besides, Satan’s chipped in to – 4 French refs, the Nearlies will be fucked 4 ways from Sunday. Make 2007 seem like foreplay.

    H – Big G, I am your humble penitent man and bow to your greatness. You are the real deal and I might add a very well versed lady when it comes to your rugby.

    G – Well, it is our game up here Hoss. Let’s go out on a prayer shall we, Brian’s Prayer. Our fetcher, who art a 7, Poey be thy name…..

    H – (Laughing) You rock. See you in a few decades
    .
    G – If you think so Hoss.

    H – Wait, what…………

    • Mike

      Gold – a long read but covered it all.

    • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

      Great read.

      I too am a person of faith, I’m a Buddhist, but it is not my role to try and force my beliefs on others, or to judge them for theirs.

    • Gun

      You beaut H man

    • Andy

      Well done.

      I am not one of any faith. Wouldn’t say I’m a lefty either. But I have no issue with people believing in something for good outcomes. I’ve seen and done a lot of volunteer work with religious organisations and The work they do really is important, especially for people who really need help.

      But agree, no point forcing theology onto other people as it should be a personal thing. If it’s true that Izzy is pushing other players to support him and speak out against their own interest that would sum him up imo.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Hahahaha this is gold mate I love it. All I can say is bring it on brother. when we get the threepeat in September we’ll see who the Great Omniscient Deity really loves

      • Hoss

        Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall

        • Who?

          There’s that Catholic heritage bubbling to the surface…

        • Hoss

          Its never far away……..

    • Happyman

      Pure gold worthy of an article to itself

    • Brisneyland Local

      Post of the decade.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Hoss, like you I am a pure agnostic centrist. Over the years of spending my life in third world shitholes getting shot at by people, I learnt a valuable lesson. There are no atheists in a fox hole. When you have been digging in with your eyebrows for over 24 hours getting shot at by heavy calibre weapons, everyone turns to someone!
      However that being said, whoever I communicated with told me something that has been my guidance for the rest of my life.
      “You got yourself into this bloody mess, best you get yourself out of it!”
      Alas, it is what it is!

      • Hoss

        I can only imagine you would have been privy to the best and worst that human-kind has to offer.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I have seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. I view it in a more Star wars like mentality! These things bring balance to the Force! It is all about perspective!

        • Go the Force!!
          Oh sorry, just thought id bring up old shit, but at least its rugby..

        • Brisneyland Local

          Good call.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Yeah even sex had balance. Heard and said “Holy Fuck!” A few times

        • Brisneyland Local

          Oh so true! I have done the mayor of Hiroshima few times:
          “What the fuck was that?”

    • Damo

      Hoss I lie before you in prostrate supplicance. As referee M. Jerome Garces would say “merci beaucoup!”

    • formerflanker

      A very funny story and I’d like it more if you didn’t have one fatal flaw.
      You call yourself a centrist but only mock the “right”. Great digs at Christianity, Abbott, Pell, and Jones but no use of your searing prose against the “left” i.e. The Project, ABC, SMH, atheists, Q&A, or – dare I say it – RA.
      Or is there a second edition in the wings where you imagine a conversation ripping into Peter FitzSimons?
      Go on. You know you want to.

      • Hoss

        Didn’t Monty Python say – always pick on the right side of life ??

      • Andy

        Maybe there is disagreement over your interpretation of left and right

      • Brisneyland Local

        FF, you obviously did not read his comment last week about being a great student of history, and with Tits Shorten about to be elected, he will know what it was like living under Chairman Mao!
        He definitely picks on both sides equally!

    • Pearcewreck

      TL;DR

      • Hoss

        And yet you cared enough to comment. Betrayed by your actions Mr PW .

    • Keith Butler

      Mate this is not pure gold it’s pure platinum. Puts it all in perspective. I just wish that a couple of posters (you know who I mean) who like to push their own agenda would just STFU or indeed post elsewhere.

    • Holy hand grenade of Antioch incoming..

    • Larry Jorgensen

      I like the confirmation that God swears cause fuck knows I do.

      • Hoss

        I asked to record her mate – worlds first ever ‘godcast’ but couldn’t get it over the line.

    • Damo

      Mate, an extra bonus point for somehow getting a South Australia piss take into that story.

    • idiot savant

      In any sane world you would be canonised for this….

      • Hoss

        Or burnt at the stake.

        • idiot savant

          smoke either way…

        • Hoss

          Gold mate.

    • Timbo

      If I may Hoss, I’d like to provide a different conversation with my understanding of Yahweh as someone who is 5/7 of the things on IF’s list and who has a reasonable understanding of Christian Theology.

      H – Nice attempted deflection G-Dog. Lets cut to the chase. One of your flock and I paraphrase to save time, has posted that all ‘poofs, piss-heads, rooters, looters and shooters’ are headed south for a very long summer. Where do you sit on all this?

      G – thought this question might come up Hoss. Look, I love Izzy, solid citizen and I did put those words on Paul’s heart many years ago when he was dealing with issues within my church during a tumultuous time and place. The internet, as you know, is an interesting place where I am represented by both the good and the bad. Izzy is the good, however I would have suggested a different approach but as those in Jerusalem know, you can only lead a horse to water.
      I haven’t changed in that time and the reality is without Jesus, you’re as separated from me as Peyper is from the laws of the game you and I both love.
      I want to be your coach, 5/8 and fan in the stands but as those theologians, the Pythons said, you’re all very naughty boys and girls.
      Admit it. you know you fall short. just like Izzy, the Cardinal, the wingnut in speedos. All people fall short of the perfection you were created to aspire to. And I long to be mates again. to have those beers, shoot the shit, kick the footy, enjoy those bbqs on endless summer afternoons. I really do.

      H – Fark, so you’re saying its my fault?

      G – Do you honestly feel you’re blameless? clear of conscience? Dare I say, sinless?

      H – well no but surely I’m not the worst?

      G – All have fallen. Imagine you’re the Wallabies guest selector and you have a perfect record at 10. Your selection criteria is 100% kick pass run with 100% wins, tackles made and no handing errors. The Players however, are all c%$ts. exceptionally talented. They seem to be made in the image of an incredible sportsperson, but they have brain fades that would make King Carlos blush. Plus they all have convictions for indecency, public urination theft, harassment etc. Who do you select? There is no one righteous. Not even one. All have fallen short. All have dropped the pill.
      This is my predicament.

      H – so how do you select a side?

      G – I’m glad you asked. There is the perfect player. high ball skills like Izzy, pilfering skills like Poey, able to scythe though defence like Bernie. And oh, he’s the Coach’s son. Never put a foot wrong, no social media fuck ups, never beaten his mrs or pissed in a pub. Is the first selected.
      So this guy says, I will stand down and never play again if those other guys can play. Willingly gives up his career so others can live in the game.

      H – nice story. we all know it’s horse shit.

      G – yeah I guess it is just a story. Fairy-tale to some. Life changing to others.

      • Hoss

        I doff my cap accordingly.

        • Timbo

          Yours was far more eloquent and somewhat more amusing. My cap was doffed in reverence while I wrote

        • Timbo

          Hello moderators, why was my reply to Hoss marked as Spam?

  • Yowie

    “Team Jesus” wouldn’t incur many dumb penalties for lack of responding to niggle on the field.

    “Team Moses” can really cut through defenders though…

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      That’s gold

  • joy

    Reported in The Australian’s lead article 15/5/19:

    “…. today’s release of polling on voter attitudes, commissioned by the Institute for Civil Society. The YouGov Galaxy survey …. found over whelming support for legal protections upholding freedoms for people of faith. Among those polled, 75% agreed freedom of thought, conscience and belief through speech, practice and teaching needed to be protected. Only 5% disagreed, with 20% undecided.”

    A few people on this blog think their views represent the “mainstream”. They make a lot of fuss for a tiny bunch of noisy minors don’t they?

    • Pearcewreck

      Thanks joy.
      You are right, there seem to be a few people on here who think they know what they are talking about, but actually have no idea, especially when it comes to Christianity.

      • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

        Whenever I hear someone accuse someone of having no idea about Christianity, I presume they refer to others that have different interpretation of Christianity.

        It you presume your own interpretation of the religion is the only one with value, it is easy to argue that no one else knows what they are talking about.

        • Andrew Luscombe

          Why presume that? There seem to be plenty of people who don’t know basic things about Christianity.

          How does presuming your own interpretation is the only one with value make it any easier to argue anything? Wouldn’t it make it harder because you can’t see the other point of view so well and so not know what points to make?

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          Easier to argue, not to be correct.

          Generally speaking, I’ve found practicing people of all religions least willing to accept competing or contentious ideas or interpretations about their faith.

          Generally, their comeback to any reasonable criticism is ‘you don’t know anything about my relgion’.

        • Pearcewreck

          As with the Laws of Rugby, when there is disagreement, you have to go back to the book, that is, The Laws Of Rugby. Sometimes to interpret them you need to have a well thought out position, experience and understanding of real life situations.
          It is the same with Christianity.
          To really know it, you need to go back to the book, that is, The Bible, and it needs to be interrupted from a well thought out position, with experience and applied to real life situations.
          So, I am am very comfortable with my position on Christianity.
          I find it interesting that you talk about Christianity quite a bit, yet you call yourself a Buddhist.
          As a Christian, I don’t think I have ever tried to preach to Buddhist about Buddhism.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          I’ve never preached Christianity, for the precise reason that there is a multitude of interpretations.

          But if you know the Bible well, you will be aware that virtually every stamens in it is contradicted by other statements in it, and it is down to the individual to interpret the Bible as they see fit.

          Which is part of the reason there is a multitude of churches – they interpret the religion differently.

        • Pearcewreck

          As I said,
          I am am very comfortable with my position on Christianity.
          I find it interesting that you talk about Christianity quite a bit, yet you call yourself a Buddhist.
          As a Christian, I don’t think I have ever tried to preach to Buddhist about Buddhism.
          Do you get the message?

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          And I’ve never preached Christianity to a Christian.

          What you have done, my friend, is create a straw man.

        • Pearcewreck

          So you don’t get the message then?

          Let me spell it out to you mate,
          I am saying I am tired of you running Christianity down.
          Time to shut up about other people’s faith.
          I have never said any thing about Buddhism on here.
          Maybe you could learn something from that.

          Also, ditch the straw man rubbish, you have over used that phrase.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          When have I ‘run Christianity down’?

          Don’t worry, I’ll wait.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          Glad to see you have not a single example of me running Christianity down. Thought so!

      • Keith Butler

        Coulda sworn this site was dedicated to Rugby, not Religion…unless Rugby is your Religion…then all bets are off. Anyway, all sportsmen should shut the fuck up about anything that doesn’t involve the sport they play. Who gives a flying fuck at a Godless Donut what they think about the afterlife?

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Where were you when David Pocock went front n centre for gay’s rights all those years? I don’t remember anyone standing up and saying keep your personal opinions and beliefs to yourself Pocock….nor did RA for that matter…..

        • Thylacine

          Tipping most people were getting on with their own lives, mate. Y’know? Like maybe playing rugby, watching rugby, that kinda thing.

        • Dud Roodt

          I’m pretty sure there were a few “christians” here who told him to shut up about it?

          But you’re also relating someone saying everyone should have equal rights with someone saying a portion of society are going to hell. They’re not the same thing

    • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

      Useless statistic.

      I absolutely agree that freedom of thought, conscience and belief through speech, practice and teaching needs to be protected. Virtually everyone does.

      The main point of contention is how far these protections should go.

      Some people might argue that one should be able to publicly defend slavery or stoning based on their religion (both are defended in the Old Testamen from memory), but many would disagree.

      People also disagree as to whether this particular case is even about religion – are RA looking to terminate Folau for his religious views, or because he has brought a storm of criticism on the sport and threatened the game’s financial health with sponsors threatening to pull out?

      What you’ve done, as you’ve done throughout this saga, is set up a straw man andmisrepresent the facts of this specific situation.

      • Yowie

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xC2bNpXdAo

        Yes Prime Minister Re surveys

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          That’s gold and soooooo correct

      • Pearcewreck

        Ah, D Braithwaite, you have made a rookie mistake.
        Trying to attack Christianity by selectively picking Old Testament verses and referencing them to suit an argument.
        Rookie error.
        All Old Testament teaching must be viewed through the glasses of the Cross of Jesus Christ in order to put it into context.

        Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)

        36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

        This is Jesus saying his teaching now takes precedent over Old Testament teaching. We don’t ignore the Old Testament, but it must be viewed from this side of The Cross of Christ.

        So please, cease selectively referencing Old Testament versus to suit your argument.
        It is a misrepresentation of Christian teaching.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          You’ve missed the point completely.

          Never said that the Old Testament verse is what Christianity teaches, but any Christian could interpret that verse as being true, if they chose to.

          I also could have been talking about a Jewish person, given the Old Testament is the Torah.

        • Pearcewreck

          Quote:
          Some people might argue that one should be able to publicly defend
          slavery or stoning based on their religion (both are defended in the Old
          Testamen from memory).

          So what point did I miss?
          You did exactly what I called you out for.
          Please stop misrepresenting something that you have chosen not to belong too.
          The entire argument is in a Christian context because we are discussing the IF situation.
          It is not a Jewish context.
          Stop trying to insert straw men where they don’t exist.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          So I said that some people might argue that, not that that’s what Christianity teaches?

          Good to see we’re in agreement that I didn’t preach what Christianity teaches.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          You seem very eratic and picky with what you choose to debate about especially with regards to the bible/christians! Your old vs New Testament seems rusty and I’m almost possative the Bible does not teach that “women should obey their husbands for religious reasons”. It does however teach a headship arrangement where the man takes the lead and the wife supports him therefore gaining immense respect! Funny thing is that system actual WORKS and biology/science supports that family nucleus! It’s only gained negative attention as modern feminists have started steam rolling themselves into unhappy career lifestyles!
          A word of advice…. If you pointing out something and don’t stay you disagree with it, you will appear to be supporting the thought!

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          I think you’ve just proven my point, that Christian doctrine can be interpreted in different ways.

          And nah not rusty, I’ve studied the Bible and Christianity fairly closely.

        • Dud Roodt

          “man takes the lead and the wife supports him” – right, so this is just a fancy way of saying “obey” right?

          “It’s only gained negative attention as modern feminists have started steam rolling themselves into unhappy career lifestyles! ” – wowsers, and now, my sharia christian friend, you have truly shown your penchant for the dark ages, and in the process proved DBTB’s point.

          Those pesky women wanting to work in anything other than the kitchen, amirite?!

        • Larry Jorgensen

          I like the fact the God swears cause fuck knows I do.

      • Who?

        Many say that slavery is defended in the Old Testament, and some claim it’s defended in the New Testament. Perhaps a better representation of it is that slavery is understood to be a societal norm, and so guidelines for minimum treatment (treating people – even slaves – as human) were established. In many areas, as humans, we’ve better learned to show respect to our fellow man over time.
        .
        Stoning is something I don’t think many Christians understand, given it’s not a Christian tradition. It’s a Jewish (also found other cultures) legal tradition, not a religious tradition. Judaism and Islam share an unusual history, where religion is much more tied to the state in the early days. So Sharia Law is just traditional law from that area interpreted into Scripture. Similarly, the Jewish Law is their national law, interpreted into Scripture.
        .
        .
        I agree that the statistic is somewhat useless, because these surveys always give positive results like that, until someone advocates something clearly opposed to your own thoughts. If we had a Muslim cleric come out and advocate for universal application of his understanding of Sharia law, including stoning for homosexuals, removing hands from thieves, etc, we’d have a large backlash. That’s freedom of speech. It’s a step beyond the Folau situation, because it’s calling for implementation of personal beliefs on others in the here and now rather than warning of possible outcomes in an afterlife many no longer believe exists (though seemingly many now retain belief in a heaven whilst losing faith in a specific god who made that heaven), but it’s still free speech.
        .
        And I’m sure if someone did advocate for that publicly, rather than ‘hidden’ in a mosque, then many who say they believe in freedom of thought and speech would suddenly question whether or not it’s a good idea. When the ‘correct’ response – certainly the consistent response – would be to allow the speech, and then challenge the ideas. Not denigrate the speaker, not condemn the speech as hate speech, but challenge the ideas.
        .
        And once again, we are SOOOO far from Rugby! :-D

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          100% agree that challenging ideas is a better thing than shutting speech down, except in circumstances that is trying to incite violence.

    • GO THE Q REDS

      I’m with you Joy! I think it’s such a shame that people can be so insensitive and disregard the beliefs and rights of others so whimsically! But it can be cool to do so and boy o boy can it earn you a pile of “likes”
      RA should be ashamed of themselves for bowing to extreme agendas like they have and at the same time appear to be happy
      to flippantly ruin potentially many players lives completely, at the cost of possibly hurting some feelings…… MAYBE!

      • Dud Roodt

        There’s only one extremist in this scenario, and I’ll give you a hint, it’s the guy preaching fire and brimstone from a work of fiction written centuries ago

  • Keith Butler

    There is only one true religion. Pastafarism – The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster declares it’s allegiance for RWC 2019. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8658c06bc37e2f9773c026d9161aac85827ad50746c6ebc3ea24e9be78cc3516.png

Rugby
@NathW1997

Loved rugby since the day I could remember, got the nickname Footy to show that, I watch Matt Dunning's dropkick every night before going to bed

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