Wallabies 2021

[Jimmy_Crouch]

And here we go again. Another article about a couple of blokes not getting a shot in Australia. Both Newstar.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-ha...tralias-rugby-rejects-set-to-shine-for-japan/

 

[Tomikin]

It was in relation to the article suggesting he could have been a hundred test Wallaby but... It was a pretty big but.

We've only got one side of the story. There were some strange quotes in it. Gill saying it wasn't about money and knew that he would have to take a reduction but then also that obviously money is an issue as a professional.

Maybe those initial conversations suggested that the money was so far apart that it couldn't really go any further with Johnson and RA?

It wouldn't seem unlikely that there would be $0 from RA and Gill's option for a contract was whatever he could get from a Super Rugby side.

Im more disappointed that this wasnt just communicated to Gill, the phone going dead, isnt what should be expected when trying to get players home, specially one that wanted to come home.

Guess it goes both ways though. I would just thing a conversation was needed..

 

[Cancelled Account]

This just demonstrates why Australian Rugby is in the state it is. We have buffoons running this show putting their opinions in front of the greater importance of the game. I don’t give a shit if Johnson has got a point to prove with any agent, he has succeeded in crippling the reputation of our administration which impacts on players leaving and wanting to return. Piss him off and put someone in the position that fights for the players and not their own ego.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And here we go again. Another article about a couple of blokes not getting a shot in Australia. Both Newstar.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-ha...tralias-rugby-rejects-set-to-shine-for-japan/

I think it is great they have both forged professional rugby careers and reached the pinacle with representing Japan and chance to play other international teams. But ruing ones that got away from wallaby perspective...nah....

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I think it is great they have both forged professional rugby careers and reached the pinacle with representing Japan and chance to play other international teams. But ruing ones that got away from wallaby perspective.nah..

100% agree take the opportunity but I see this as another article pushing the same player managers narrative of QRU/RA stuffed up

 

[cyclopath]

This just demonstrates why Australian Rugby is in the state it is. We have buffoons running this show putting their opinions in front of the greater importance of the game. I don’t give a shit if Johnson has got a point to prove with any agent, he has succeeded in crippling the reputation of our administration which impacts on players leaving and wanting to return. Piss him off and put someone in the position that fights for the players and not their own ego.

Look, I'm not a big Scott Johnson fan, but his remit is to look at how the national body spends its contract money. So it is important for him to look at what they are asking and whether that fits within their budget. As other posters have said, if players desperately want to come back to play rugby in Oz, and they are of sufficient quality, they can approach Super Rugby teams to try the market. If the player deems their worth to be far higher, then the market will decide. The pool of money aint bottomless.
And none of us here know how much Gill / Picone was looking for. That article certainly did not make it clear.

 

[Drew]

I think it shows the limited pathways available to players as opposed to talent identification. There’s only so many professional spots available. If you don’t make schoolboys, you have to do something extraordinary to get noticed and get a contract. And if you don’t, you play club rugby and watch the next years schoolboys take the professional spots. Obviously there’s players in clubland who, given the right environment, could excel at the next level. I love a day at the local oval having a sausage sandwich and a beer, it’s fun. But is it a pathway to professional rugby? You’d hope so, but the guys playing club don’t get the same opportunities and keep getting leapfrogged by the next big thing.
At the other end of the scale, someone like Joe Powell, is he going to stick with Australian rugby forever? He’s fourth in line for the wallabies and could probably make more OS.

 

[cyclopath]

I think it shows the limited pathways available to players. If you don’t make schoolboys, you have to do something extraordinary to get noticed. And if you don’t, you play club rugby and watch the next years schoolboys take the professional spots. Obviously there’s players in clubland who, given the right environment, could excel at the next level. The opportunity isn’t always there.

Sure, there are plenty of flaws in our current system. No argument.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Rugby is an international sport, played in more countries than our fellow League and AFL codes. We all draw on the same number of people, but NRL just do it better because of its administration. Better leaders that are getting better results. Get V’landys (the horse racing guy) involved and we’ll double participation in less than 3 years.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

100% agree take the opportunity but I see this as another article pushing the same player managers narrative of QRU/RA stuffed up

Yep and agree a yawn as not a stuff up as can’t get them all and doubtful they would make the wallabies...

 

[Tomikin]

Look, I'm not a big Scott Johnson fan, but his remit is to look at how the national body spends its contract money. So it is important for him to look at what they are asking and whether that fits within their budget. As other posters have said, if players desperately want to come back to play rugby in Oz, and they are of sufficient quality, they can approach Super Rugby teams to try the market. If the player deems their worth to be far higher, then the market will decide. The pool of money aint bottomless.
And none of us here know how much Gill / Picone was looking for. That article certainly did not make it clear.

What the article did make clear though was Gill wasn't told he cost to much.. communication is important.. to have a player say I wanna come home and then get no answer isn't good enough.. Johnson's job is to make it clear where Gill stands.. sounds like he didn't do that..

 

[cyclopath]

What the article did make clear though was Gill wasn't told he cost to much.. communication is important.. to have a player say I wanna come home and then get no answer isn't good enough.. Johnson's job is to make it clear where Gill stands.. sounds like he didn't do that..

I'm not sure the article made anything clear apart from Christy Doran's high opinion of Liam! And his agent does not have the best track record of transparency in his negotiations. Who knows what silly buggers were being played in the background.
The fact Gill was not communicated with better is poor, no doubt, and that should have been done better.
But I bet there is more to this than we all know.
And, as I said, I'm no big fan of Johnson.

 

[Dctarget]

Gunter is just a reminder that our limited resources means we can't develop players beyond the top few. When he left I didn't think he was much chop (along with Riley) but now they're coming along nicely. We're fortunate that sometimes it works out with players like Philip who take it up a gear later on in life and are still onshore but more often than not they do it overseas. We're going to see it now with Leota who'll probably be getting MotMs over in Europe constantly and we'll be told our pathways are shit.

 

[sendit]

It’s a fine line between maximising opportunities and quality of competition

One of the positives of Super AU will be that as we expand it, the quality of competition won’t be as important due to no NZ involvement so we can give more of these non schoolboy superstars a shot

One of my envies of League is that there are SO many guys in the NRL who made few to no junior rep sides and allows for guys to make their debuts well into their mid 20’s. Union in Australia is just so cut-throat at the moment

 

[Braveheart81]

Rugby is an international sport, played in more countries than our fellow League and AFL codes. We all draw on the same number of people, but NRL just do it better because of its administration. Better leaders that are getting better results. Get V’landys (the horse racing guy) involved and we’ll double participation in less than 3 years.

Surely the overwhelming advantage they have is that they can hand out hundreds of professional contracts for the same age group we can hand out a couple of dozen.

One of my envies of League is that there are SO many guys in the NRL who made few to no junior rep sides and allows for guys to make their debuts well into their mid 20’s. Union in Australia is just so cut-throat at the moment

This isn't because they're better at identifying talent though. It's just because there's a lot more contracts to fill.

 

[sendit]

This isn't because they're better at identifying talent though. It's just because there's a lot more contracts to fill.

Essentially what i said in my first paragraph.......

 

[fatprop]

Ben Darwin for incite

 

[eastman]

One of my envies of League is that there are SO many guys in the NRL who made few to no junior rep sides and allows for guys to make their debuts well into their mid 20’s. Union in Australia is just so cut-throat at the moment

Is rugby really that cut-throat?

I've always seen rugby as being far less ruthless with its standards/ player retention than the other professional football codes from both the media, fans and franchises (especially AFL which has huge churn). There are so many examples of non-performers getting extensive tenures at clubs and then being picked up elsewhere in Australia when they are eventually moved on.

I wonder if its a result of having a smaller talent pool, limited media and fan scrutiny or a 'softer' cultural aspect unique to the sport.

 

[sendit]

Is rugby really that cut-throat?

I've always seen rugby as being far less ruthless with its standards/ player retention than the other professional football codes from both the media, fans and franchises (especially AFL which has huge churn). There are so many examples of non-performers getting extensive tenures at clubs and then being picked up elsewhere in Australia when they are eventually moved on.

I wonder if its a result of having a smaller talent pool, limited media and fan scrutiny or a 'softer' cultural aspect unique to the sport.

Look at the percentage of Super players that at a bare minimum didn't play state level at school then compare it with NRL - it's pretty stark

I just love their development pathways, they're so clear & defined.

 

[eastman]

Look at the percentage of Super players that at a bare minimum didn't play state level at school then compare it with NRL - it's pretty stark

I just love their development pathways, they're so clear & defined.

It would be interesting to compare the average professional career of an AFL/ Union/ NRL player - I'm pretty certain that AFL absolutely trumps when it comes to short careers and churning through players.