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COVID-19 Stuff Here

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Found the source for vax/unvaxed cases in hospital.
NSW Health COVID-19 Critical Intelligence Unit

As mentioned earlier, raw numbers show more cases of vaxxed individuals in hospital than untaxed. As of Jan. 9, 68.9 percent of COVID-19 patients aged 12 and over in hospitals had two doses of the vaccine, with 28.8 percent unvaccinated BUT unvaccinated individuals appear to be six times more likely to be hospitalised and nearly 13 times more likely to be sent to ICU than those who are fully vaccinated.
Mate, stick to Rugby. This thread isn't doing you any favours.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
^ nah, I think he's edging towards the realisation that rates per thousand or million are what matter, not the absolute numbers.

The hospitalisation numbers he quotes do indeed return an unvaxxed rate 6.36 times greater than vaxxed.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
^ I did Maths With Statistics back when it was called Applied Maths in Year 12 back when it was called Seventh Form & always knew I'd use it some day, 40 years later... :cool:

Haha! I'm back studying science at uni out of curiosity. I started with a math focus but n dimensional space in systems of algebraic equations imploded my head. Still have a unit of stat coming at the end of the year.

Exponential math I can do, and in the current world it is f*#$ing scary.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
^ I did Maths With Statistics back when it was called Applied Maths in Year 12 back when it was called Seventh Form & always knew I'd use it some day, 40 years later... :cool:
:D Well granddaughter did the same thing at the same collge WOB, only she went on with a bit and got her masters in it at Uni, and now works at reserve bank, I still trying to work out how she can get what she learnt to get my more money on the pension!!;)
She hasn't been very helpful at all!
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
^ nah, I think he's edging towards the realisation that rates per thousand or million are what matter, not the absolute numbers.

The hospitalisation numbers he quotes do indeed return an unvaxxed rate 6.36 times greater than vaxxed.

I'm doubtful. My experience has been the more reason you apply to an argument the more the backlash effect kicks in and the more they dig their heels in.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
If Dismal posted that I'd assume he was making it up. You I'll give the benefit of the doubt :)

:p Linear equation are just straight lines, the math is primary school. "Systems" just means lining them up in a matrix (a table if you prefer). Unfortunately the mathematical operations get complicated quickly, no not complicated, just very busy and heaps of work with plenty of opportunity for error. In quantum which uses them, it took brilliant minds years to complete a simple review - until Feynman who developed a method to ditch the whole thing and do it diagrammatically. What a guru. My personal hero for obvious reasons.

Anyways, back to SARS-2. The math imploded and I swapped to Bio-chemistry - hence been watching this closely.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
:p Linear equation are just straight lines, the math is primary school. "Systems" just means lining them up in a matrix (a table if you prefer). Unfortunately the mathematical operations get complicated quickly, no not complicated, just very busy and heaps of work with plenty of opportunity for error. In quantum which uses them, it took brilliant minds years to complete a simple review - until Feynman who developed a method to ditch the whole thing and do it diagrammatically. What a guru. My personal hero for obvious reasons.

Anyways, back to SARS-2. The math imploded and I swapped to Bio-chemistry - hence been watching this closely.
giphy-3.gif
 

Dismal Pillock

Simon Poidevin (60)
Ordinarily I might suggest moving all the Djokovic stuff to the Tennis thread but the Offtopic area here at GAGR is so sad and dilapidated and ignored it would barely be worth it.

Nothing personal to anyone here but goddamn this is one boring motherfucker of an internet message board.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Unsurprisingly, letting the Aux out to chase grass & run barefoot upon the butterflies has resulted in Covid popping up in new locations.

Surprisingly, however, the numbers have been really small & almost every case has been able to be traced back to a known source. Still only 20-odd in hospital on any given day & only one or two in ICU. No-one in authority is saying it, but I think we may be very close to eliminating Delta for a second time.

The elephant in the arrival room is if course Omicron: 260-odd cases detected at the border & MIQ (out of ~18K arrivals so still quite low) so the same people who won't say Delta is no longer an issue are saying we've got somewhere between two & four weeks before Omicron hits (just in time for Super Rugby yay not).

Kids can start being vaxxed tomorrow & indications are that most parents will do the right thing & get little Oliver/ Sophie jabbed at the same time mum & dad get their booster.

All in all I'd say we're as well placed for Omicron's arrival as we can be, hopefully it peaks early before the weather turns & doesn't cause too much carnage.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Kids can start being vaxxed tomorrow & indications are that most parents will do the right thing & get little Oliver/ Sophie jabbed at the same time mum & dad get their booster.
I'd be ultra cautious about letting kids get jabbed.

The most fearful outcome of covid is death and in the 2 years of covid sweeping across Australia there has only been a minuscule number of covid related deaths of children (5 under 19)
The cases of covid in children have been to a great extent mild symptoms.
Don't forget that the vaccines only have provisional approval and that longer term data is needed.
The Australian government, like many other countries, has indemnified pharmaceutical companies against causing side effects and adverse reactions so the risks have been officially acknowledged.

Personally, I'd be waiting as long as possible before letting my kids get jabbed. 5 years of testing/research is needed before we can really understand the risks.
Good food, plenty of exercise and sunshine may be just as effective as any viral gene vaccination.
Who knows, the severity of Omnicon and any subsequent strains may be so low that vaccinations of healthy children will not be needed.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
I'd be ultra cautious about letting kids get jabbed.

The most fearful outcome of covid is death and in the 2 years of covid sweeping across Australia there has only been a minuscule number of covid related deaths of children (5 under 19)
The cases of covid in children have been to a great extent mild symptoms.
Don't forget that the vaccines only have provisional approval and that longer term data is needed.
The Australian government, like many other countries, has indemnified pharmaceutical companies against causing side effects and adverse reactions so the risks have been officially acknowledged.

Personally, I'd be waiting as long as possible before letting my kids get jabbed. 5 years of testing/research is needed before we can really understand the risks.
Good food, plenty of exercise and sunshine may be just as effective as any viral gene vaccination.
Who knows, the severity of Omnicon and any subsequent strains may be so low that vaccinations of healthy children will not be needed.
This is the closest thing to a sensible post you've made.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'd be ultra cautious about letting kids get jabbed.

The most fearful outcome of covid is death and in the 2 years of covid sweeping across Australia there has only been a minuscule number of covid related deaths of children (5 under 19)
The cases of covid in children have been to a great extent mild symptoms.
Don't forget that the vaccines only have provisional approval and that longer term data is needed.
The Australian government, like many other countries, has indemnified pharmaceutical companies against causing side effects and adverse reactions so the risks have been officially acknowledged.

Personally, I'd be waiting as long as possible before letting my kids get jabbed. 5 years of testing/research is needed before we can really understand the risks.
Good food, plenty of exercise and sunshine may be just as effective as any viral gene vaccination.
Who knows, the severity of Omnicon and any subsequent strains may be so low that vaccinations of healthy children will not be needed.

And yet children are still getting Covid, going to hospital & in some cases dying:

"The study - published in JAMA Network Open this week - followed more than 3000 children who presented to emergency departments and tested positive to the virus from 10 countries, including New Zealand, Canada and the United States.

"It aimed to find out how frequently children presenting to emergency departments and infected with the virus experienced severe outcomes (such as myocarditis, neurological, respiratory, or infectious problems) and what were the risk factors.

"Nearly a quarter of those observed in the emergency deparments required hospitalisation, four died, and three percent experienced severe outcomes within two weeks of being admitted to an emergency department."


Meanwhile CDC has this to say wrt the vaccine safety question:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/WR (World Rugby)/mm705152a1.htm

Not a parent but I'd far rather my 11-yo grand-niece have a sore arm & feel crap for a day or two than have her end up in hospital (nephew intends getting her vaxxed this week & she's fully on board with that as she wants to help keep her baby brother safe).
 
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dru

Tim Horan (67)
This is the closest thing to a sensible post you've made.

Close but no cigar. >Simply adding to WoB but perhaps with a slightly different emphasis:

Children are low on the vaccine priority list because yes, they have less illness severity and possibly transmit less. This is from WHO: TLDR:

The evidence of serious impact for children from vaccine exists but is much lower than claimed by the flat earth - anti-vax - "freedom" loving anarchist - Trumpites. The impact from catching COVID for a child is also lower than for an adult. "Caution" is not the answer but prioritisation is. (Australia has worked through those priorities.) Societal reasons for vaccinating children exist.

On another note, your child has a high likelihood of getting SARS-2. Choose to vaccinate and reduce that likelihood across the school and child community world. Which in turn will help your child - just like the adults who have chosen to get vaccinated has helped your child. OR let the thing rip with your child on the consequence end of that choice.

Rationale for vaccinating adolescents and children

Vaccines which have received authorization by stringent regulatory authorities for the age indication of children and adolescents are safe and effective in reducing disease burden in these age groups.

Although benefit-risk assessments clearly underpin the benefit of vaccinating all age groups, including children and adolescents, the direct health benefit of vaccinating children and adolescents is lower compared with vaccinating older adults due to the lower incidence of severe COVID-19 and deaths in younger persons. Safety signals identified after widespread roll-out, such as myocarditis, albeit rare, are reported more frequently in young persons aged 16-24 years, particularly males; the risk of myocarditis in adolescents and/or children has not yet been determined.

Reducing intergenerational transmission is an important additional public health objective when vaccinating children and adolescents. Prior to the emergence of the delta variant, it was reported that the risk of symptomatic cases in household contacts of vaccinated cases was about 50% lower than that among household contacts of unvaccinated cases(22). However, the impact of vaccination on reducing transmission in the context of the more transmissible delta variant appears to be lower(23). Teachers, family members, and other adult contacts of children and adolescents should all be vaccinated.

Vaccinating children and adolescents may also help advance other highly valued societal goals. Maintaining education for all school-aged children should be an important priority during this pandemic. School attendance is critical to the well-being and life prospects of children and to parental participation in the economy. Vaccinating school-aged children may help minimize school disruptions by reducing the number of infections at school and the number of children required to miss school because of quarantine requirements.

The benefit of vaccinating children and adolescents may be lower in settings with high seropositivity rates in that age group, however, more evidence is needed on seroprevalence of school-aged children.

Conclusions

Countries should consider the individual and population benefits of immunising children and adolescents in their specific epidemiological and social context when developing their COVID-19 immunisation policies and programs. As children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, unless they are in a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.

There are benefits of vaccinating children and adolescents that go beyond the direct health benefits. Vaccination that decreases COVID transmission in this age group may reduce transmission from children and adolescents to older adults, and may help reduce the need for mitigation measures in schools. Minimizing disruptions to education for children and maintenance of their overall well-being, health and safety are important considerations. Countries’ strategies related to COVID-19 control should facilitate children’s participation in education and other aspects of social life, and minimize school closures, even without vaccinating children and adolescents (24). UNICEF and WHO have developed guidance on how to minimize transmission in schools and keep schools open, regardless of vaccination of school-aged children(25).

Aligned and coordinated action is needed to achieve the global COVID-19 vaccination targets. Given current global inequity in vaccine access, the decision to vaccinate adolescents and children must account for prioritization to fully protect the highest risk subgroups through primary vaccination series, and as vaccine effectiveness declines with time since vaccination, through booster doses. As such, before considering implementing primary vaccination series in adolescents and children, attaining high coverage of primary series - and booster doses as needed based on evidence of waning and optimizing vaccination impact - in highest risk subgroups, such as older adults, must be considered(26).

As a matter of global equity, as long as many parts of the world are facing extreme vaccine shortages, countries that have achieved high vaccine coverage in their high-risk populations should prioritize global sharing of COVID-19 vaccines through the COVAX facility before proceeding to vaccination of children and adolescents who are at low risk for severe disease.

It is of utmost importance for children to continue to receive the recommended childhood vaccines for other infectious diseases.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
^ Is "The evidence of serious impact for children from vaccine exists but is much lower than claimed by the flat earth - anti-vax - "freedom" loving anarchist - Trumpites" an actual quote from an actual WHO document? Far stronger language than I'd expect to see from them (100% accurate, but).
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
^ Is "The evidence of serious impact for children from vaccine exists but is much lower than claimed by the flat earth - anti-vax - "freedom" loving anarchist - Trumpites" an actual quote from an actual WHO document? Far stronger language than I'd expect to see from them (100% accurate, but).

Sorry - thought I had indicated that bit with TLDR. Didn't mean to be confusing.
 
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