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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Now that NYT has bought Wordle I'll probably have to subscribe. I guess the bonus is access to articles like this!
 

Sword of Justice

Vay Wilson (31)
This is absolutely incorrect. It is far less lethal than Delta.

Rates of each metric per the number of cases is entirely relevant.

It is not a push to reopen the economy as much as it is a desire to let people resume their normal lives. A very large percentage of the population is vaccinated and at a very low risk of suffering severe disease from catching COVID.

The elderly and the immuno-compromised will always be at significant risk of COVID. The challenge is managing that.

I think the point being made however is that it is easier to contract. In the same way that kangaroos are more dangerous than sharks.

Managing the risk for the elderly as you say is a challenge and whilst I'd love to go totally back to normal as suggested by FF (Folau Fainga'a) that isn't managing it at all.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think the point being made however is that it is easier to contract.

Absolutely.

That begs the question though of whether imposing even harsher lockdown restrictions than we had for Delta in an attempt to control cases (which didn't really work until vaccinations took over) is a reasonable step to take when the people most affected by those lockdowns have an unbelievably low chance of getting seriously ill from the virus.
 

Sword of Justice

Vay Wilson (31)
Absolutely.

That begs the question though of whether imposing even harsher lockdown restrictions than we had for Delta in an attempt to control cases (which didn't really work until vaccinations took over) is a reasonable step to take when the people most affected by those lockdowns have an unbelievably low chance of getting seriously ill from the virus.

Is anyone imposing that in the east though? The post in contention was suggesting an end to mask mandates, vaccination mandates, social distancing among other things.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Is anyone imposing that in the east though? The post in contention was suggesting an end to mask mandates, vaccination mandates, social distancing among other things.

When people are criticising the recent outbreak and saying that the government has "let it rip" and that the number of cases and deaths have been unacceptable, you have to look at what measures would have been needed to achieve something different.

It is pretty apparent that case numbers have come back down primarily because Omicron is running out of people to infect.

The fact that cases haven't rocketed back up with the return to school supports that.

It is highly doubtful how much wearing masks inside shops is doing to prevent cases.

The vast majority of the population is vaccinated. Outside of a couple of specific situations, unvaccinated people can do what they want and go where they want. It is questionable how imperative a booster shot is for a young person to the extent that it should be mandatory. Encouraged sure, but mandatory, I'm not sure.

Certainly those most at risk should definitely be getting booster shots. I note that I had my booster shot back in December. I am absolutely in favour of vaccines.

Likewise, I said it was the closest I'd come to agreeing with formerflanker. I didn't say I agreed with everything exactly.

We're clearly moving to a new stage of the pandemic where it is endemic and we need to treat it as such. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people still at significant risk from it.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
When people are criticising the recent outbreak and saying that the government has "let it rip" and that the number of cases and deaths have been unacceptable, you have to look at what measures would have been needed to achieve something different.

It is pretty apparent that case numbers have come back down primarily because Omicron is running out of people to infect.

The fact that cases haven't rocketed back up with the return to school supports that.

It is highly doubtful how much wearing masks inside shops is doing to prevent cases.

The vast majority of the population is vaccinated. Outside of a couple of specific situations, unvaccinated people can do what they want and go where they want. It is questionable how imperative a booster shot is for a young person to the extent that it should be mandatory. Encouraged sure, but mandatory, I'm not sure.

Certainly those most at risk should definitely be getting booster shots. I note that I had my booster shot back in December. I am absolutely in favour of vaccines.

Likewise, I said it was the closest I'd come to agreeing with formerflanker. I didn't say I agreed with everything exactly.

We're clearly moving to a new stage of the pandemic where it is endemic and we need to treat it as such. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people still at significant risk from it.
A small case study.

I caught the virus at a fairly sparsely attended gig in late December. Heaps of room to move around, good ventilation, all drinks served outdoors. Maybe not model prevention measures but pretty good in my experience. 100% of my party caught covid, as did many pub staff and presumably other people in the space.

Fast forward to last weekend. Went to a gig at a new bar in Thornbury (Melbourne's funky inner north for all you non-Mexicans). Small bar, heaving with people, a handful were masked and those masks were essentially useless as they weren't N95 jobbies. We were shoulder to shoulder and singing and carrying on. A 'super spreader' event if there ever was one.

All patrons and staff checked in and vaccinated, no case alerts or exposures.

I can draw two potential conclusions:

1. You accept BH's hypothesis and assume everyone or a vast majority had already been exposed and their double/triple vaccination status was sufficient.
2. There were cases and the scaled back public health effort meant no alerts were distributed, and the bar didn't bother to contact patrons.

Both are plausible, I guess. But if that's what 'COVID-normal' looks like, I'm happy.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
A small case study.

I caught the virus at a fairly sparsely attended gig in late December. Heaps of room to move around, good ventilation, all drinks served outdoors. Maybe not model prevention measures but pretty good in my experience. 100% of my party caught covid, as did many pub staff and presumably other people in the space.

Fast forward to last weekend. Went to a gig at a new bar in Thornbury (Melbourne's funky inner north for all you non-Mexicans). Small bar, heaving with people, a handful were masked and those masks were essentially useless as they weren't N95 jobbies. We were shoulder to shoulder and singing and carrying on. A 'super spreader' event if there ever was one.

All patrons and staff checked in and vaccinated, no case alerts or exposures.

I can draw two potential conclusions:

1. You accept BH's hypothesis and assume everyone or a vast majority had already been exposed and their double/triple vaccination status was sufficient.
2. There were cases and the scaled back public health effort meant no alerts were distributed, and the bar didn't bother to contact patrons.

Both are plausible, I guess. But if that's what 'COVID-normal' looks like, I'm happy.
I went hopping between parties on NYE in Sydney which was I think it's peak of Omnicron. Not one person caught COVID at any of the parties, I got it the next day when I was having my greasy big breakfast cafe in the open air. Weird.

Not terribly excited to be losing my immunity now, I was quite happy feeling invincible for a month there.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Go Boris!
All remaining Covid restrictions in England - including the legal requirement to self-isolate - could end later this month, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said.
(BBC News)
Of course Scotland is heading in the other direction. Obviously following different health advice.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Strange days here in NZ with record case numbers (446 today) & given testing rates have pretty much halved since August & QR scan-ins by over half since mid-December the real number could easily be double what's being reported & based on what happened over your ways we're probably still a month or even six weeks away from the peak. A run of long weekends so soon after Christmas/ NY may have something to do with it but there's also a theory that people are choosing not to scan in and/ or get tested 'cos they just can't face the prospect of isolating for 10 days if they test positive or perhaps longer if they're deemed a close contact & don't get sick straight away.

At the same time, though, people are getting themselves boosted & their kids jabbed in huge numbers so it's all a bit hard to fathom what's going on. Hopefully things will become clearer in the next 2-3 weeks with the holiday season over & kids back at school.
 
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formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
At the same time, though, people are getting themselves boosted & their kids jabbed in huge numbers so it's all a bit hard to fathom what's going on.
Whe NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard said "everyone is going to get Omicron" he was saying that vaccines do not stop the spread of Covid.
At 95% vaxxed in NSW, the transmission should have stopped or slowed by 95% - but it hasn't.
Therefore NZ is in the same situation. Transmission and positive cases will still occur no matter how many NZrs are double vaxxed, boosted, or up to date.
Zero covid was a dystopian pipe dream of Ardern's.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
At the same time, though, people are getting themselves boosted & their kids jabbed in huge numbers so it's all a bit hard to fathom what's going on. Hopefully things will become clearer in the next 2-3 weeks with the holiday season over & kids back at school.
Word to the wise boosted and double vaxxed defiantly helps with the serious impacts of Covid hospitalisation, death etc so I am not against boosting or vaccines but as far as transmission of Omnicron goes don’t suffer under the impression it prevents transmission or catching. Vaccines have little impact on transmission of Omicron. It’s coming might as well rip the band aid off.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Word to the wise boosted and double vaxxed defiantly helps with the serious impacts of Covid hospitalisation, death etc so I am not against boosting or vaccines but as far as transmission of Omnicron goes don’t suffer under the impression it prevents transmission or catching. Vaccines have little impact on transmission of Omicron. It’s coming might as well rip the band aid off.
Within reason. Might as well still limit transmission where possible ie masks etc.

Closed borders and lockdowns though? Fuck no.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
Within reason. Might as well still limit transmission where possible ie masks etc.

Closed borders and lockdowns though? Fuck no.
Agree take practical measures where possible, I think we (NSW) maxed out at about somewhere in 200’s due to COVID in NSW intensive care. Capacity and contingency had been built of 1,000 plus into the hospital system for intensive care in NSW so very much at the lower end.

NZ will also handle it in its stride when it decides to. It’s just that the ‘when it decides to’ the longer that is delayed has consequences and they are not good for a countries unity.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Whe NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard said "everyone is going to get Omicron" he was saying that vaccines do not stop the spread of Covid.
At 95% vaxxed in NSW, the transmission should have stopped or slowed by 95% - but it hasn't.
Therefore NZ is in the same situation. Transmission and positive cases will still occur no matter how many NZrs are double vaxxed, boosted, or up to date.
Zero covid was a dystopian pipe dream of Ardern's.

Zero Covid was the response to the first wave & it worked: Covid was eliminated at great cost including 25 lives.

Once vaccination became an option the response changed to keeping it out until vax rates reached 90-95% which they recently have.

The second lockdown & subsequent measures in response to Delta were "suppress & vaccinate" & they too, worked at great cost including another 25 lives which is extraordinary given how much more virulent Delta was compared to the original. Worth noting that had Omicron arrived a week or two later Delta would also have been eliminated, or very close to it.

Now with Omicron the measures are aimed at "suppress & boost" & so far they seem to be working wrt boosters but as I said the jury's still out on the extent to which it's being suppressed.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The convoy of idiots in Canberra have forced the annual Lifeline book fair to be cancelled…

That’s hundreds of thousands of dollars they would’ve raised… gone.

fluffybunnys.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Strange days here in NZ with record case numbers (446 today) & given testing rates have pretty much halved since August & QR scan-ins by over half since mid-December the real number could easily be double what's being reported & based on what happened over your ways we're probably still a month or even six weeks away from the peak. A run of long weekends so soon after Christmas/ NY may have something to do with it but there's also a theory that people are choosing not to scan in and/ or get tested 'cos they just can't face the prospect of isolating for 10 days if they test positive or perhaps longer if they're deemed a close contact & don't get sick straight away.

At the same time, though, people are getting themselves boosted & their kids jabbed in huge numbers so it's all a bit hard to fathom what's going on. Hopefully things will become clearer in the next 2-3 weeks with the holiday season over & kids back at school.

I understand the strategy as an average punter - you mitigate your own risk as much as possible and avoid being put in to lockdown. It's basically trying to fly under the radar as much as possible.
 
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