Australia v England: Match III, SCG, Sat 16th July 7.55pm AEST

[Braveheart81]

Is it option taking though? It was a low percentage chance of Frost cleanly picking up the bouncing ball on the run but maybe the percentage play was to try and dive on it and secure possession with front foot ball in the attacking part of the field.

 

[Rebel man]

They dont have a like for like sport who take all the extra players that may play union, lets be honest NRL is another 16 clubs we could support without it.

Once again Dan, your dig at Oz rugby not being able to support 5 teams is see-through.

And there is the key issue. If we had 16 domestic union clubs and no competition from league the Wallabies would be a force to be reckoned with

 

[gel]

It is more a reference to the stuff they should be polishing in training relentlessly to ensure that 90 becomes 100.

You can't look me straight in the face and say Frost gathers that chargedown 100% of the time. At best, chargedowns are 50/50

Yeah, I can't look you straight in the face for Frosts, but I absolutely can stare blankly at you when referencing Hodge, Thor's passes. Those absolutely should be made 90 times out of 100

 

[Rebel man]

Pfitzy, interesting post. I think we have a major issue in terms of talent ID. When I finished playing, I ref'd for years and was always surprised at the occasional player who was very good playing in subbies. I asked a few of them over the years why they hadn't stepped up and apart from an excellent 10 in St George area who wanted to play with his mates, the rest all said nobody ever asked them to try out for Shute Shield. The days of Bob Dwyer pulling players from 2nd grade into Wallabies has never been repeated. Yet league talent ID seems to be far more active.
In SS player poaching goes on within SS and rarely outside, has been my observation.

As someone who has worked in recruiting not in rugby. It’s a hard job most the blokes a volunteers. Multiple games per weekend, when it comes to subbies is it my belief the club has an obligation to tell them to play at the best level available to them and not wait for a player to be given a chance

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely the obligation is on the player to get them involved in a higher level competition if they want it.

Where would 1st division, 1st grade subbies (Kentwell Cup) rate relative to grade rugby? Surely it's better than the lowest grade.

It's not like players have to go from Subbies to Shute Shield. They clearly just need to join a grade rugby side to have the opportunity to be "discovered" to play at a higher level.

 

[Rebel man]

Surely the obligation is on the player to get them involved in a higher level competition if they want it.

Where would 1st division, 1st grade subbies (Kentwell Cup) rate relative to grade rugby? Surely it's better than the lowest grade.

It's not like players have to go from Subbies to Shute Shield. They clearly just need to join a grade rugby side to have the opportunity to be "discovered" to play at a higher level.

It is but some player lack confidence/belief, some lack the maturity to identify the opportunity and that’s where you need a coach saying look son we you should push yourself to move up a grade.

 

[Pfitzy]

Surely the obligation is on the player to get them involved in a higher level competition if they want it.

Where would 1st division, 1st grade subbies (Kentwell Cup) rate relative to grade rugby? Surely it's better than the lowest grade.

Kentwell Cup is easily better than 4th Grade Premier. but most Kentwell teams would struggle to crack top 8 of Shute Shield 1st Grade over a season.

It is hard to judge how individuals would go tho - many don't play Premier because they don't want the extra training and commitment, and that's also fine.

Remember also Subbies is amateur so you've immediately created a chasm based on incentive.

 

[Braveheart81]

It is but some player lack confidence/belief, some lack the maturity to identify the opportunity and that’s where you need a coach saying look son we you should push yourself to move up a grade.

I more meant compared to the grade clubs scouting from subbies.

That to me would be a bad outcome where they're using their scarce resources on trying to cannibalise the level below them.

All for coaches suggesting a talented player should have a crack at a high level comp.

 

[Dan54]

Similarly, if you open up a national comp (The "New" NRC or TNNRC ) where any club can apply for a licence, to field a team you instantly create a tier system that will end up like English Premier Rugby i.e. the 12 clubs on the inside are basically never getting kicked out. The clubs in the second tier need to have a certain size membership base, ground seating size etc in order to be considered, and can't get there on what they have. Well, short of a billionaire patron...

The clubs who aren't in the position to integrate into that comp immediately become outsiders for the rest of time. And look you could argue that has happened anyway in terms of who is capable of taking out Shute Shield, but this would probably exacerbate things overall.

What is the role then of the next tier?
Play for promotion/relegation against TNNRC bottom placed team(s)?
Become feeder clubs?
How many tiers can that financial model support?
What happens to things like Subbies in Sydney which is another level down?

Though I think pfitzy that in Wales, England etc, they do similar and still keep lower grade clubs, they find their own level (as Subbies etc do) and that's where they reside. I agree it's a tier thing, but it works, even in NZ we have Super, NPC, and Heartland apart from all clubs etc below that. Funnily enough sometimes the bottom of the pile carry on almost best as they all just completely amateur and just there for the fun of it all.

 

[stillmissit]

I more meant compared to the grade clubs scouting from subbies.

That to me would be a bad outcome where they're using their scarce resources on trying to cannibalise the level below them.

All for coaches suggesting a talented player should have a crack at a high level comp.

Coaches want to win and Subbies is no different. I was involved in Subbies for a few years and never heard a coach mention anything like that.
Would you do it if your team was running 2nd and with a good chance to win a cup?
Offers should come from above. Petersham suggesting to Easts they had a good player is something I've not heard before.
All this is academic as there is such a severe shortage of players in many Grade and Subbies clubs, many clubs struggle to put out the required teams on match day. I remember one season I had to drive around waking up kids to play in away matches.

 

[stillmissit]

From the world’s best club to Sydney subbies: How the Waratahs unearthed a hidden star

Charlie Gamble was set for big things as a Crusaders junior, but setbacks saw him playing park footy in Sydney. Now a NSW star, he takes on his old team on Saturday.

www.smh.com.au

If you want to read more

Great read QWERTY, It shows the difference in basics at a young age, which is a bit of a hobby horse of mine. This quote I liked “Someone goes ‘mate, there is a bloke absolutely lighting it up in subbies’,” Taumoepeau said. “I said ‘mate, please, I am not going to call someone in subbies.’

Gamble is a great find for the tahs and it will be interesting next year when he is eligible for Wallabies.

 

[Derpus]

It is more a reference to the stuff they should be polishing in training relentlessly to ensure that 90 becomes 100.

You can't look me straight in the face and say Frost gathers that chargedown 100% of the time. At best, chargedowns are 50/50

Thought that was pretty clearly a penalty against Smith for tackling him without the ball.

 

[Rebel man]

Coaches want to win and Subbies is no different. I was involved in Subbies for a few years and never heard a coach mention anything like that.
Would you do it if your team was running 2nd and with a good chance to win a cup?
Offers should come from above. Petersham suggesting to Easts they had a good player is something I've not heard before.
All this is academic as there is such a severe shortage of players in many Grade and Subbies clubs, many clubs struggle to put out the required teams on match day. I remember one season I had to drive around waking up kids to play in away matches.

Because it’s how you attract talent to your club. If players see other blokes go on to higher honours and have success they will choose that club to play for

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Interested to see if anyone else felt that Kerevi didnt have a real crack when Smith grabbed that ball and scored.

 

[Dctarget]

Interested to see if anyone else felt that Kerevi didnt have a real crack when Smith grabbed that ball and scored.

Probably because he knew that LCD knocked the ball on and expected it to be called back. But yeah, play to the whistle.

 

[Braveheart81]

Interested to see if anyone else felt that Kerevi didnt have a real crack when Smith grabbed that ball and scored.

I just watched it again.

When was Kerevi meant to have a crack?

Lolesio had the first go at picking up the ball and basically knocked it on straight into Smith's path. I don't think Kerevi was ever a chance to get to the ball or Smith. I don't think it was about thinking there was a knock-on by England.

Lolesio stuffed it up. In hindsight trying to pick the ball up and spin through a defender simultaneously was a terrible option.

 

[KiwiM]

Lolesio stuffed it up. In hindsight trying to pick the ball up and spin through a defender simultaneously was a terrible option.

Ironically that's exactly what Smith did straight after.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I just watched it again.

When was Kerevi meant to have a crack?

Lolesio had the first go at picking up the ball and basically knocked it on straight into Smith's path. I don't think Kerevi was ever a chance to get to the ball or Smith. I don't think it was about thinking there was a knock-on by England.

Lolesio stuffed it up. In hindsight trying to pick the ball up and spin through a defender simultaneously was a terrible option.

Don't disagree with the Lolesio assessment but Kerevi didn't seem to attack the ball then just put a soft arm out. They are the plays you need people fighting for it and he doesn't.

 

[Braveheart81]

Don't disagree with the Lolesio assessment but Kerevi didn't seem to attack the ball then just put a soft arm out. They are the plays you need people fighting for it and he doesn't.

I still can't see how he gets to the ball. He paused when Lolesio was going for it and so did Smith, the ball then bounces straight towards Smith and Kerevi heads towards the ball but Smith was much closer.

 

[Derpus]

I just watched it again.

When was Kerevi meant to have a crack?

Lolesio had the first go at picking up the ball and basically knocked it on straight into Smith's path. I don't think Kerevi was ever a chance to get to the ball or Smith. I don't think it was about thinking there was a knock-on by England.

Lolesio stuffed it up. In hindsight trying to pick the ball up and spin through a defender simultaneously was a terrible option.

The fuck was Lolesio doing there? Looked scared or contact.