School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[beserker]

How many Schools bring in gun violinists in yr 11 and drop their "home grown " musicians, to make room for the imports.

How many music scholarships are awarded,that are not listed on their websites,and are not open for anyone to apply for?
How many music scholars do not even bother getting an ATAR?

I think you're right. so long as it's open - listed on the web site - and you have to pass exams then it's a goer. Otherwise it's just all hidden from sight and open to abuse. For all I know the fullback is on a rap music scholarship, or a drama one the way he can pull those penalties.

 

[beserker]

For the best explanation as to why these scholarships are wrong folow the link below from the Shore website.

Written by Headmaster Dr Wright. He articulates all the issues perfectly.
Scroll about half way down the page.

http://www.shore.nsw.edu.au/enrolment/scholarships/scholarships-general-info

Seriously, this is just an advert for Shore which is competing for enrolments from all the other schools and should be decoded as such. Its intended audience is the parents of year 7 boys and has little to do with reality.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Have you tried to enroll at Shore?

Pretty sure not much has changed over the years, and if you aren't on the list by Year 4, then you have Buckleys of getting in.

I'm told that most enroll at the same time as their boys start Kindergarten, and there are plenty who will claim they registered Oliver shortly after birth to make sure of a place.

The decision to enroll/not enroll would not be shaped by whether the school offers sporting scholarships or not.

 

[beserker]

Have you tried to enroll at Shore?

Pretty sure not much has changed over the years, and if you aren't on the list by Year 4, then you have Buckleys of getting in.

I'm told that most enroll at the same time as their boys start Kindergarten, and there are plenty who will claim they registered Oliver shortly after birth to make sure of a place.

The decision to enroll/not enroll would not be shaped by whether the school offers sporting scholarships or not.

Only as a back-up. The point is they are brands, each business having a turnover in excess of $50Mill most like. If one brand gets over confident and can't innovate its days are numbered. Its american car clunkers vs japanese innovation. Shore can enjoy their full lists while they can.

 

[Quick Hands]

Only as a back-up. The point is they are brands, each business having a turnover in excess of $50Mill most like. If one brand gets over confident and can't innovate its days are numbered. Its american car clunkers vs japanese innovation. Shore can enjoy their full lists while they can.

They go pretty well in the HSC, so I'd suggest they might not have too much trouble getting full lists.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think it's called PDHPE

There's no practical component in PDHPE after Year 10 - it's all theory, essays etc. I've spoken to a mate of mine who teaches it and the sporty kids who do it don't go any better than they do in any other subject. In fact he said that the most unsporty kid in the school could do it and get the best marks.

 

[Quick Hands]

little to do with reality.

Whose reality does it have little to do with? I'd suggest if you or your son went to any GPS school and worked hard for 4 years, paid school fees and then lost your place to someone who paid no fees, it has quite a lot to do with reality.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well, if that's the best explanation, we may have a problem. Why should rugby be any less deserving than music? If I miss out on getting into the school string quartet, then I'd feel pretty bad. At least with rugby I can work on my game and get back up into the grade I want to play at. Each school should try and have at least their 1's play with a game plan that they can execute. If a school has players that can do that then clearly they'd be wasting their money to buy elsewhere. Let's face it, cricket has died in the arse at GPS schools - just compare the no of teams with basketball. Let's keep GPS rugby at a great standard and dispense with the sanctimonious attitude.

People don't miss out on music ensembles as there's not set number, they just add another person to the band.
Cricket is in decline everywhere and the GPS is no different. Many people find it boring and say that it takes too long. If you are at a school and you have to play Saturday sport, do you (a) pick cricket which takes 3 or 4 hours and you might not get to bat, bowl or touch the ball in that time or (b) baskettball which takes about 40 minutes and you're involved for most of the time.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

People don't miss out on music ensembles as there's not set number, they just add another person to the band.
Cricket is in decline everywhere and the GPS is no different. Many people find it boring and say that it takes too long. If you are at a school and you have to play Saturday sport, do you (a) pick cricket which takes 3 or 4 hours and you might not get to bat, bowl or touch the ball in that time or (b) baskettball which takes about 40 minutes and you're involved for most of the time.

That certainly does appear to be the trend that I've witnessed. Though it does open and opportunity in terms of 7s. Make it a summer sport fill the growing gap.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Have you tried to enroll at Shore?

Pretty sure not much has changed over the years, and if you aren't on the list by Year 4, then you have Buckleys of getting in.

I'm told that most enroll at the same time as their boys start Kindergarten, and there are plenty who will claim they registered Oliver shortly after birth to make sure of a place.

The decision to enroll/not enroll would not be shaped by whether the school offers sporting scholarships or not.

Day of birth is too late for boys born after a certain date in any year.
Your last point must be correct - who would know how gifted a sports person their little bounding boy was going to be?
One sure way to miss out on a sporting scholarship would be to be already enrolled, i reckon.

 

[Quick Hands]

People are entitled to agree or disagree with Dr. Wright. Given that he as advocated a principle and stuck by it, in accordance with the rules, I do think he deserves some credit. He could quite easily have slipped boys in after Year 7 without too many people noticing, but hasn't.

It's a strange old world where people seem to imply that a person who sticks by his principles has some sort of improper motive for doing so. Maybe he's just an honourable person who is doing the right thing when some of those in similar positions aren't.

 

[Quick Hands]

Have you tried to enroll at Shore?

Pretty sure not much has changed over the years, and if you aren't on the list by Year 4, then you have Buckleys of getting in.

I'm told that most enroll at the same time as their boys start Kindergarten, and there are plenty who will claim they registered Oliver shortly after birth to make sure of a place.

The decision to enroll/not enroll would not be shaped by whether the school offers sporting scholarships or not.

But scholarships (sporting or otherwise) aren't subject to enrolment waiting lists. They are offered just before high school starts. Or during high school!

 

[beserker]

People are entitled to agree or disagree with Dr. Wright. Given that he as advocated a principle and stuck by it, in accordance with the rules, I do think he deserves some credit. He could quite easily have slipped boys in after Year 7 without too many people noticing, but hasn't.

It's a strange old world where people seem to imply that a person who sticks by his principles has some sort of improper motive for doing so. Maybe he's just an honourable person who is doing the right thing when some of those in similar positions aren't.

No. You need to decode what he is saying. It is wrong to conflate a team sport with music as the outcomes for the boys are worlds apart. Is it right that the boys look around the classroom in year 8 or 9 and know where they will play in year 12? Of course not. This is just the sort of helicopter parenting that lets them down as soon as they are challenged in life. Which is why we think it's great they play rugby, and even happier still when they continue with it after school - at any grade they find entertaining. Shore is a great school. GPS rugby is strong when Shore do well. Don't let it die in the arse. If Kings thrash them this week lets set up some kids with buckets and ask parents to empty their cars coin holders and let's set up a Shore Rugby Scholarship for them, ie for the boys.

 

[Quick Hands]

No. You need to decode what he is saying. It is wrong to conflate a team sport with music as the outcomes for the boys are worlds apart. Is it right that the boys look around the classroom in year 8 or 9 and know where they will play in year 12? Of course not. This is just the sort of helicopter parenting that lets them down as soon as they are challenged in life. Which is why we think it's great they play rugby, and even happier still when they continue with it after school - at any grade they find entertaining. Shore is a great school. GPS rugby is strong when Shore do well. Don't let it die in the arse. If Kings thrash them this week lets set up some kids with buckets and ask parents to empty their cars coin holders and let's set up a Shore Rugby Scholarship for them, ie for the boys.

Your decoder must be working better than mine.

Noone is saying that about in the 13 or 14As has a right to know where he is playing in Year 12. In the ordinary course of events and through hard work some boys who aren't in lower age A teams will overtake boys who were in 13 & 14As. What's the incentive to work hard when 10 or more boys in a 1st XV arrive in Years 9 & 10 specifically to play rugby?

Rugby is great when it's a level playing field. If 8 schools get together and agree to a set of rules and some choose to abide by them and others don't, then it is not a level playing field. At the moment 2 schools of the 8 (3 of 9 if you count TAS) can't even contest the competition. That leaves a 6 team competition. If any more teams feel that they are unable to contest the 1st XV competition, that leaves 5 teams and not a viable competition.

Go to the AAGPS website and have a look at the competition table for the 2nds. It's like the 1st XV used to be - reasonably even. Compare the for and against in 2nd XV to 1st XV. No matter what the sport, a good competition is one in which everyone has a chance of winning, even teams at the bottom of the ladder are competitive and everyone abides by the rules agreed to by all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No. You need to decode what he is saying. It is wrong to conflate a team sport with music as the outcomes for the boys are worlds apart. Is it right that the boys look around the classroom in year 8 or 9 and know where they will play in year 12? Of course not. This is just the sort of helicopter parenting that lets them down as soon as they are challenged in life. Which is why we think it's great they play rugby, and even happier still when they continue with it after school - at any grade they find entertaining. Shore is a great school. GPS rugby is strong when Shore do well. Don't let it die in the arse. If Kings thrash them this week lets set up some kids with buckets and ask parents to empty their cars coin holders and let's set up a Shore Rugby Scholarship for them, ie for the boys.

Coins in coin holders?
You really are out of touch.
All tolls are electronic now.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Kenny Powers]

Rugby is great when it's a level playing field.....

No matter what the sport, a good competition is one in which everyone has a chance of winning, even teams at the bottom of the ladder are competitive and everyone abides by the rules agreed to by all.

Beyond the scholarship issue one of the underlying issues to the GPS comp is that there has been what you would describe as 'structural change' at some schools and a more liberal philosophy regarding education and sports choices.

It wasn't that long ago that tennis (1972), basketball (1975) and soccer (1988) were introduced to AAGPS. Prior to this your only winter sport choice was pretty much rugby, basically compulsory unless ruled out due to medical reason.

Some schools have embraced the other winter sports more than others. Not sure which schools it is still compulsory at or where they cap the other winter sports teams and where you are not selected you end up in rugby, so if anyone knows...

So some schools stick to the traditional rugby, rowing and cricket more that others.

Some exclude you joining their school based on unacceptable academic capability. ( I prefer this terminology to 'selective school'.) Underlying this is the fact that it is on average easier to turn a good sportsman into a reasonable scholar. However it is a lot harder to turn a scholar into a reasonable athlete. This makes even competition hard.

Some schools take a more liberal and some would say a more modern approach to the sports they offer. This impacts their depth in rugby.

Some have also become more multicultural that others. Rugby, cricket, rowing is not necessarily strong in these cultures.

It comes down to personal choice, and I am not commenting on one school being better than the other.

My point is that 50 years ago the GPS schools shared a more similar approach to education than they do today. This makes the principle that a good competition is one where everyone has a reasonable chance to win hard to achieve and may see the GPS competition slowly erode even without the impact of scholarships.

 

[beserker]

The thing is this, and you do not need to be a philosophy major to grasp it, but: What is good for the school/ the system/the game is not congruent with what is good for the players/students/sons.

So, Your school is good because it gets great HSC results (in general) and they'll make sure you play in a higher grade of rugby than if your son was at another school .
Buh Boh. Wrong. Schools probably pump their resources into the top 50%. So if that doesn't include you, you'd better move. As far as rugby goes, if you feel that there is more to life than being promoted to beyond your level of competency, then better move.

What you are doing is turning your son into a consumer, to be satisfied with the tangible and not the producer that he needs to be to be the best he can be.

 

[I like to watch]

My point is that 50 years ago the GPS schools shared a more similar approach to education than they do today. This makes the principle that a good competition is one where everyone has a reasonable chance to win hard to achieve and may see the GPS competition slowly erode even without the impact of scholarships.

Then maybe these Schools should be re aligned so they compete with like minded Schools.
Just because they had similar ideals 50 years ago,is no reason to continue to compete today.
Snobbery and elitism aside.
The ideals of Grammar and Shore compared to Newington, are miles apart.
That is if we comparing actions and not rhetoric.

 

[beserker]

My son was Jan - we booked July - told we were already out of the money - offer came thru halfway into Yr 6. There are, however, two backdoor entries - neither have anything to do with sport - one is boarding, the other is the thing that talks.

Definitely shop around. They're all good, and it'll always be up to you to drive them. Oh, and tell them you're thinking about pumping a few more out in the very near future.

 

[beserker]

Read some of my earlier posts - if Shore succumbs the AAGPS will be very different - imagine they go to South Africa - find the family with 3 good rugby playing sons - organise visas, jobs, etc - the whole family moves. Then there is the Anglican community in Nigeria with plenty of boys crying out for "Church Scholarships" and those peninsula families currently crossing the harbour might decide that North Sydney and a summer surf lifesaving sport fit their needs better. Not to mention the very large number of regional Anglican schools emerging.

Frankly I don't know what the answer is. For mine, the darkest day in schoolboy sport was only a few years ago when Shore had a brain snap and thought they could win HoTR by poaching students from other schools and put together a dream 8, which was subsequently beaten by SGS and it turned into a nightmare. For this and other reasons it is hard to contemplate a prohibition. It's also evident that a scholarship at Shore which is very popular would cost the school a lot more that one at a school without full lists, especially if they can not be used to motivate the other students.