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3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Making this a "national comp" will blow out the costs markedly.

Airfares, accommodation jump up any costs.

I understand these were major cost issues for the ARC, players were transferred in essentially from Sydney and Brisbane to load up interstate teams; and put up for months.

They were then flown around the day before and flew out the day after. ie 3 days accommodation.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Therefore there just are not the cattle to create a viable third-tier competition and it would make more sense using Rugby's resources to strengthen the base of the pyramid - the clubs.

They had the cattle to run the ARC in 2007 when they produced eight teams without players quarantined for the Wallabies squad.

It was a decent enough standard with a few strong teams and a few weak ones. There is no reason to suppose that it can't be the same seven years later.

(And not to the point: but if the NRC prevails some of the players who have to migrate to Melbourne or Perth to get a gig may blossom and be picked up for Super Rugby there.)

The club season will be shorter but five months is a reasonable chunk of time for a competition. The matchday Super players will be missing from the comp for the whole season but Rats' supporters had no objection to that in 2007 when the Super player ring-ins couldn't distort the end of the Shute Shield competition as they do every year now.

I think the base is further down: in junior rugby. If the ARU is using its own money on the NRC I'd like to see them using it instead on rugby missionary work including getting the sport back into state schools.

But the ARU will be not be planning to spend a lot of its own money.

The winning bidders will be paying for their own training and matchday costs, including ground hire, but getting the gate receipts. This is why the bidders have to have financial starch.

If the details in the paper a few days ago, and the media release yesterday, are correct, then the ARU will be covering just the travel and accommodation expenses.

To offset that outlay (and no doubt some extra costs for admin) they will get $1 mill. from Foxsports to fill in a blank hole in their programming on Thursday night. In 2007 they had to pay the ABC to broadcast two games a week.

So said the newspaper, which also mentioned they would need another $2 mill. from sponsorship of the NRC.

If $3 mill. is the correct revenue figure needed and they don't achieve it, then they will eat into their capital and the NRC won't last very long.

Where was I? Yeah - on paper the ARU won't be using their financial resources on the NRC that would otherwise be available for something else.

On paper.

Pulver has said:

This competition will be in place forever. It's an important step for future of rugby.

That's a big call—I hope he's right.
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flat_eric

Alfred Walker (16)
I
Regardless of the EOI, I think the ARU/NRCC will be careful to brand the teams as separate to those who may run them, in order to bring new/unaligned people into the competition.

With that in mind, I think you'll see a structure the likes of the ARC:

Sydney
Sydney (West)
Sydney (North/Central Coast)
Canberra
Brisbane
Brisbane
Melbourne
Perth

Personally, I would like to see a 10-team ARC, with two teams each linked to a Super franchise. Something along the lines of:

Sydney (Waratahs)
Sydney (North/Central Coast) (Waratahs)
Sydney (West) (Brumbies)
Canberra (Brumbies)
Brisbane (Reds)
Brisbane/GC (Reds)
FNQ/NT (Force)
Perth (Force)
Melbourne (Rebels)
Adelaide (Rebels)

I'm a fan of aligning the teams with a state based franchise.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Surely not; I'm disappointed to read that. We should be like Voltaire's Dr. Pangloss who sagely observed, "Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes." (All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.) Have faith. This is not the time for doubting the superior wisdom and statesmanship of those who have taken our sport in this country to where it is today.
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Bruce, your obviously better educated and more intelligent then me so in the future you could save the french literature and just precursor any insult with "I am smarter then you, heed my words".


Either way i hope as a forum people are able to discuss the pros and cons of this proposal without being overly melodramatic.
 

RugbyFuture

Lord Logo
Usyd have put their hand up already

http://sydneyunirugby.com.au/_blog/Club_News/post/national-rugby-championship-announcement/

National Rugby Championship announcement

11 Dec 2013
The ARU have announced and confirmed today that they will launch a new domestic competition in 2014, the National Rugby Championship. This competition will be supported by the ARU, Foxtel and Fox Sports and will provide a new pathway for players, coaches and administrators as well as the potential for new revenue into the code. This competition, which will include 8-10 teams from major population centres from across Australia. Expressions of Interest are now being sought from existing clubs wanting to compete in their own right, clubs wanting to form a syndicate with other organisations such as universities or individuals who would like to apply for a place in the competition. Expressions of Interest close on 13 January 2014, which will be followed by a formal tendering process, with successful teams expected to be announced by the end of February 2014. Successful teams will be selected based on a number of criteria including: financial performance; professional team staffing structure and environment; commitment to player development; venue facilities; links to Super Rugby clubs; and current or potential fan base.

Following this ARU announcement SUFC President David Mortimer AO has made his Club’s intentions quite clear. “SUFC have been at the forefront of Club rugby in Australia for well over a decade and we plan to remain a market leader by expressing a very strong interest to be a participating team in the National Rugby Championship in 2014.”. SUFC have made a considerable investment into the code and we have the required resources, standards and infrastructure required to compete in this competition. Mortimer believes SUFC can address the key selection criteria and sees this opportunity as closely aligned with the direction of the Club. “Our mission statement outlines our goal of providing the best rugby program for its stakeholders through its work ethic, high standards and innovative approach with a focus on excellence and performance on and off the field, fostering the unique values, life balance and traditions of the finest University and oldest rugby Club in Australia. With this in mind SUFC are committed to developing future Super Rugby players and Wallabies and evolving our Club.” said Mortimer.

SUFC will look to keep its key stakeholders well informed of any developments over the coming months.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Bruce, your obviously better educated and more intelligent then me so in the future you could save the french literature and just precursor any insult with "I am smarter then you, heed my words".


Either way i hope as a forum people are able to discuss the pros and cons of this proposal without being overly melodramatic.

I write how I choose, TOCC, but it is not my intention to insult you or any other fellow-G&GR member, just as I don't indulge in bagging players. What I was taking issue with was what I interpreted as your view that people should necessarily be supportive of whatever the ARU chooses to put forward. Rugby officialdom in this country has squandered any entitlement to the respect normally due to people given great responsibility.
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FiveStarStu

Bill McLean (32)
Making this a "national comp" will blow out the costs markedly.

Airfares, accommodation jump up any costs.

I understand these were major cost issues for the ARC, players were transferred in essentially from Sydney and Brisbane to load up interstate teams; and put up for months.

They were then flown around the day before and flew out the day after. ie 3 days accommodation.


Melbourne was blamed for the downfall of the ARC for this reason, but to be honest, I think that could have been avoided had we been aligned to a particular team, instead of all four. It was a lot of people we needed to fly to/from a lot of places.

On one hand, I find it hard to see players from, say, the Rebels, moving to Adelaide for 3 months to compete for a team there.

On the other hand, would it really be so bad for an Adelaide team made up of state players to compete in the league? Would it lower the standard of the league or raise the standard of the local comp?

It's a hard one.
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
I couldn't access the story -- seems you have to be a subscriber???

Full Story.....Clear as mud:confused:

ARU chief executive Bill Pulver appears to have achieved the impossible - a self-funding development competition that will be a revenue-raiser rather than a drain on resources.
Pulver launched the proposed National Rugby Championship yesterday after securing broadcast and sponsorship partnerships with Fox Sports and Foxtel, respectively.
It is a two-year deal with the possibility of extending to seven, although Pulver declared rather optimistically that it would "last forever".

Since rugby went professional in 1996 there has been a call for the establishment of a third-tier competition to bridge the gap between club rugby and Super Rugby along the lines of the ITM Cup in New Zealand and Currie Cup in South Africa, but it has been regarded as unaffordable.

An attempt was made in 2007 with the creation of the Australian Rugby Championship, but it only lasted one year after losing $5 million, which was more than $2m over budget.
But Pulver's NRC will not only provide a new development pathway in Australian rugby, it will also pay for itself and potentially make money for the cash-strapped code.

When something seems too good to be true, it usually is. But if the numbers add up, Pulver will deliver a stunning outcome for Australian rugby.

The key to the deal is the support of Fox Sports and Foxtel, which between them are believed to have covered the estimated $3m cost of running the venture, while the ARU is in deep discussions with a prospective major naming rights sponsor.

Fox Sports will televise live one match per round in prime time viewing, plus the semi-finals and final.

It is understood Fox Sports' million-dollar investment in the NRC was motivated in part by the hope that it will help it to maintain exclusive rights to Super Rugby in the face of possible free-to-air competition when the ARU renegotiates its broadcast deal next year.

This would possibly help to explain why Fox Sports was prepared to pay for the NRC, while the ARU had to pay $250,000 to the ABC to show the ARC. Expressions of interest are being sought from existing clubs or amalgamations of teams wanting to compete in the NRC, with a closing date of January 13, followed by a tendering process. The successful teams will be announced by the end of February.

The NRC will be an eight to 10- team competition running from August to the beginning of November and will feature Super Rugby and club players who are not part of the Wallabies.

There will be teams from Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and another five to seven teams from the rugby heartland states of NSW and Queensland. It is understood there will be North Brisbane and South Brisbane teams as well as Western Sydney and North Harbour sides and possibly NSW and Queensland Country teams.

Pulver said the establishment of the NRC was part of the overall restructuring of Australian rugby's development pathways, beginning at junior level, under the guidance of Ben Whitaker.

"It is enormous in a multiplicity of ways," Pulver said.

"It is an important step in a development pathway that should deliver greater success to the Super Rugby teams and the Wallabies.

"After the AFL and the NRL are over, elite rugby players will be playing in a competition like the Currie Cup and the ITM Cup to prepare for the next level.

"Equally, it creates additional superb quality content for the broadcaster. We will introduce innovative rules to make it exciting for the fans.

"It has been done on an incredibly cost-effective basis. The key to the financial viability of the NRC is leveraging Super Rugby infrastructure.

"We have existing coaches and players on contract.

"There will be some incremental costs involved, but this is a financial model that will work."
 

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
I love the comment "we have existing coaches and players on contract".
Contracted to who? Apart from the S15 coaches and players who else is contracted to the ARU?

I'd have to see the budget (although I doubt it exists yet) to believe that $3m (per year?) will cover travel, ground hire, equipment, insurance, player coach and official payments, for 10 teams. That's $300k per team per year plus whatever they collect at the gate. Remembering that the ARC lost $5m is one year.

Tell him he's dreaming !!!
 

Hugie

Ted Fahey (11)
I thought that I would have a go at guessing what law changes Rupert may have negotiated for the 3T comp.
  1. The number players to be reduced to 14 by doing away with all left wingers. They cry all the time about not getting their share of the ball and free kicks, useless.
  2. The centres can stay but they must be right of the centre and at no time be left of the centre.
  3. The right winger must stay and be given a free run, and stand to the extreme right. There are too many laws that get in the way of the right wingers and these laws must be ignored. After all its only the hard work and enterprise of the right wingers that allows the game to work at all.
  4. Any player who wants to play without sleeves must be allowed as I understand Rupert's view of union is quote.
"A well regulated team, being necessary to the security of free running union, the right of the player to keep bare arms, shall not be infringed."

Would anybody else like to suggest some law changes, remember Rupert won't allow any namby pamby lefty laws.

What about bringing back rucking the player when he's down??
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I love the comment "we have existing coaches and players on contract".
Contracted to who? Apart from the S15 coaches and players who else is contracted to the ARU?

I'd have to see the budget (although I doubt it exists yet) to believe that $3m (per year?) will cover travel, ground hire, equipment, insurance, player coach and official payments, for 10 teams. That's $300k per team per year plus whatever they collect at the gate. Remembering that the ARC lost $5m is one year.

Tell him he's dreaming !!!
This is the bit i don't understand.
He seems to infer that all coaches and players will be obligated to play for a new team for another 10 or so weeks for no additional compensation.
There would be an uproar if 1/2 of the teams were coached by the incumbent super coaches,level playing field and all that.
The allocation of Super players to each new ARC entity will be a circus,all on its own.
It will keep the forums occupied over Summer at least.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
It might be seen as a development for Super assistant coaches to see if they are up to the next level. Premier coaches can then be available as NRC assistant coaches?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
In their defence, those parties are contracted to Super Franchises on a year round basis with likely 4 weeks annual leave. They work year round in their current capacity regardless.

The biggest concern I see is the RUPA guidelines on playing time/amount of games. There will be some players who would certainly be clocking close to the limit if they played 3 finals for Super Rugby and then played an additional 7 to 9 rounds plus final.
 

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1964775/nhru-keen-on-national-rugby-competition/?cs=306

Newcastle union says they're interested in having a team. As much as I'd like to see it happen, it won't.

Yeah, they seem a bit 50/50 about it. I'd love to see it happen. Most definitely would attend these games. No.2 is a good ground for it. If we can't get in for next year I'd be happy to have a central coast team come in (not based in North Sydney but actually on the Central Coast). That's still pretty close for spectators & prospective players in Newcastle to get to. In future a CC team & a Newcastle team is a very good move, sports comps thrive on rivalry & CC-Newcastle is a pretty decent one.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I love the comment "we have existing coaches and players on contract".
Contracted to who? Apart from the S15 coaches and players who else is contracted to the ARU?

I'd have to see the budget (although I doubt it exists yet) to believe that $3m (per year?) will cover travel, ground hire, equipment, insurance, player coach and official payments, for 10 teams. That's $300k per team per year plus whatever they collect at the gate. Remembering that the ARC lost $5m is one year.

Tell him he's dreaming !!!

What bullshit. Of course it does.


but anyway, let's work it out. Shouldn't take us much to come up with a budget for it. we can do it from the ARU perspective and then from a team's perspective.

From the ARU, what are they covering?

travel and accommodation?
Match officials
Balls
Insurances (most pre-existing if all registered players)
marketing/advertising

What are the teams covering?

coach and player payments?
ground hire?
training gear
 

Rugby Central

Charlie Fox (21)
Calling Camo,

With rumour and innuendo flowing - staple diet on Gagger - any words on whether Balmian might go for a license.

I think it would be great for Rugby and shake the crap complacency out of the SS Clubs. Can you give us a confirmation, denial or no comment. :eek:
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I wonder of Melbourne and Perth should be included to start with? The NRL built a decent competition before expansion. The AFL did the same and only introduced teams that were never going to be able to compete (Suns and Giants) when the league could afford to subsidise these two teams for years.

Can the ARU really afford to have teams that struggle? I would love a national competition, but surely we need to go with what has the best chance of success and then bring in other teams.
 
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