Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Brainstrust]

theres been a few ideas bandied around to stop score lines blowing out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules in SJRU have players being taken off at various score differences , is that right. I heard it suggested that rather than doing that which always ends up with the weakest players getting removed from the field, the ref should be giving the trailing team all the restart possessions. So all line outs regardless from penalty or not, all scrum feeds even if they knocked on, and they get the ball kicked to them if the leading side scores. What happens when weaker sides are getting hammered is that they just never have the ball for long. If the leading side can turn it over and score without mistake then the game goes on...playing a side that is having their players removed is also just not a great thing for the self esteem of the losing team either...maybe worth thinking about SJRU...

 

[S'UP]

theres been a few ideas bandied around to stop score lines blowing out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rules in SJRU have players being taken off at various score differences , is that right. I heard it suggested that rather than doing that which always ends up with the weakest players getting removed from the field, the ref should be giving the trailing team all the restart possessions. So all line outs regardless from penalty or not, all scrum feeds even if they knocked on, and they get the ball kicked to them if the leading side scores. What happens when weaker sides are getting hammered is that they just never have the ball for long. If the leading side can turn it over and score without mistake then the game goes on.playing a side that is having their players removed is also just not a great thing for the self esteem of the losing team either.maybe worth thinking about SJRU.

yes players get taken off at a 40 point difference and then again at a 50 point difference so the dominant team can be down to 13 players. In my experience most coaches actually take the best players off (some don't unfortunately) to allow their other players to step up. As a referee I actually tell the coaches of the dominant team that I will be enforcing the law more stringently against them and to date I have never had a coach complain. I think changing the laws of the game completely isn't the right way to go. Having said that in trial games I always give the kick off to the scoring team so the less dominant team can have use of the ball, sometimes this doesn't work as the weaker side just drops the ball 2 plays later so the dominant team get good field position.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

SJRU Competition Rules Extract.
http://juniors.rugby.com.au/Portals/1/Images/Sydney Juniors - Competition Playing Rules - 2013 - Version 10 - 20130426 - Final.pdf

@Brainstrust, go back to post #669 on the previous page for a full extract of the SJRU rules regarding the Mercy Rule. Alternately, click on the white arrow thingy in the green bar of the post I "replied" to above to go directly there.

As other posters have pointed out, many coaches and managers probably haven't read these rules.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Here's one to chew on: a little birdy told me that the reason the ARU backed out of funding the U16's Nationals was because they wanted NSW to send 2 schools sides but the SJRU would not let go.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That seems to be a fairly long bow being drawn there, but somehow I would not be surprised if your snout was fair dinkum.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That seems to be a fairly long bow being drawn there, but somehow I would not be surprised if your snout was fair dinkum.

No bows.
Named source impeccably placed to know.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Wonder what the heavy hitters of rugbys underworld have to say about this latest revelation?

As I understand it, ARU have tried to repeat the U18 model at U16 level (NSW I, NSW II and Combined States instead of Sydney Juniors, NSW Country and NSW Schools) several times in the past, but on previous occasions NSW RU have backed the NSW JRU and issued various ultimatums to ARU leaving ARU with no option but to allow Sydney Juniors, NSW Country and NSW Schools teams to participate.

With the cash crisis in ARU, perhaps they have just used that as an opportunity to call the bluff of the NSW Juniors mafia, and to bring them into line for the greater good.

Sad that kids are going to miss out due to grown ups playing power trip games.

 

[S'UP]

Regardless of the ARU's financial position they need to take control of all rugby in this country. They need to amalgamate all the unions and run them out of the ARU. There are numerous well intentioned people running rugby (using NSW as an example) but they have their fingers in too many pies and they have been around for too many years. Thats not to say that the Uni graduates at the ARU should be running the show either, they are again well intentioned but don't seem to have real life experience when it come to actually running a rugby club, school rugby etc, it is all learnt from the same people who are mentioned above.
If you keep doing the same things and listening to the same people you get the same results.
The ARU needs to appoint someone to start again from the top and work down, run it like a restructured business retrench people, keep a few old heads and bring in new blood (I understand Juniors/senior is mostly run by voulenters) I'm know there are people out there who have good ideas they just need a forum to share them. Expressions of interest to be on a working group would be a start.

 

[I like to watch]

Here's one to chew on: a little birdy told me that the reason the ARU backed out of funding the U16's Nationals was because they wanted NSW to send 2 schools sides but the SJRU would not let go.

Why is there a need for funding?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Why is there a need for funding?

The whole setup is apparently about $100k. I'd imagine that most of the cost is in Accommodation and food, airfares, buses, medical and other costs.

Yes you probably could do it cheaper, but like many things in life, you do get what you pay for (or not pay for).

IMHO if ARU are throwing significant $ towards running the tournament, then they should have a say in how the tournament is run, including what the teams are called.

Little surprise that the bloke writing out the cheque decided to pull out funding when the participants refused to "play the game".

 

[I like to watch]

Yep, that's if they do it in style and pay to accommodate local kids who could just as easy come from home every day.
I'm pretty sure when the Opens were held at Ballymore in 2011 it was every man for himself,in regards to accommodation.
If everyone pays their own way,it will probably cost less than the co payment that Bill charges participants.
So unless the ARU are providing something I'm not aware of....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yep, that's if they do it in style and pay to accommodate local kids who could just as easy come from home every day.
I'm pretty sure when the Opens were held at Ballymore in 2011 it was every man for himself,in regards to accommodation.
If everyone pays their own way,it will probably cost less than the co payment that Bill charges participants.
So unless the ARU are were providing something I'm not aware of..

 

[S'UP]

There is no hope for club rugby when the following happens:
Issue: club Mini's numbers are dropping, soon we won't have a club.
Question: How do we increase our mini numbers?
Answer: Lets get the ARU development guys in to discuss and formulate a plan.

Discussion:

Club: ARU guy how do we get kids playing rugby, what do you need from us how can we help you.
ARU: spends 20 minutes talking about why he cannot do his job and how many resources AFL and NRL have.
Club: Yes we understand that, but what can we do, how can we help.
ARU: We can visit the local public schools and have try rugby afternoon for sport.
club: great idea, how can we help.
ARU: i'll need contact names, phone numbers and a pre commitment from the school that they will do it.
club: We thought as much, here is a list of all the local public schools, with phone numbers, contact person, who is willing to support your contact and help facilite the try rugby afternoon.
ARU: Oh great, i'll also need some dads to help.
Club: We have someone from the committee who will come to each afternoon and assist and they all have working with children form completed.
ARU: That fantatsic let me get back to you with dates etc.
club; great thanks

One Month later the following had happened:
* the ARU had not come back to the club.
* the club called the contacts at the local public schools they had not received a call from anyone at the ARU let alone the development guy.
* there had been a development day at one of the local private schools.

And there you have it, the ARU at its best, I'm not sure what the development guys do but it isn't much, if anything to grow rugby. I am confident they spend plenty of time down at headquarters playing with powerpoint presentations and watching the Waratahs or Wallabies train or dealing with high performance issues. I'm sure that will help.

 

[Whale berry]

You would think the ARU would monitor these forums, but then again, may be not.
If anyone knows Pulvers emails address then he should be sent the link to this post.
If no feed back then send it on to someone like Fitzsimmons at the Herald.

 

[forwards4ever]

You would think the ARU would monitor these forums, but then again, may be not.
If anyone knows Pulvers emails address then he should be sent the link to this post.
If no feed back then send it on to someone like Fitzsimmons at the Herald.

Totally agree!

 

[Runner]

Quick Hands point from Waratah Shield blog.

I've been saying this for years, but the problems seem to be:

No teachers qualified/willing to coach

No boys with any sort of rugby experience to play

(Even on the northern beaches, the Friday afternoon PSSA now only runs league and soccer, whereas once there was also a rugby competition)

Point that Rugby is dying in the school system where most kids experience sport first. The weekend teams is where these kids would go next.
There is a need to fund the weekend games and rearrange some structures to be more representative and efficient.

 

[Quick Hands]

The ARU needs to appoint someone to start again from the top and work down, run it like a restructured business retrench people, keep a few old heads and bring in new blood (I understand Juniors/senior is mostly run by voulenters) I'm know there are people out there who have good ideas they just need a forum to share them. Expressions of interest to be on a working group would be a start.

The whole set-up of age group rugby needs to be completely restructured in Sydney at least. (Probably elsewhere too, but I have no first hand knowledge of anywhere else).

As it stands, elite level senior rugby and schools rugby are going well but in clubland there are nowhere near the resources and support available to maintain a viable junior club competition.

In the Manly and Warringah areas minis are going great guns, but there is now a significant drop-off occurring in 10s-14s which is a relatively new phenomenon. Too much needless travel is one factor, which in this area at least plays into the hands of league and soccer who both run competitions which are self-contained on the peninsula. In the older age groups this can't really be avoided and it happens in league about 16s as well, but there are 89 u/10s teams in Sydney and there's simply no need for teams of 10 year olds to be travelling anywhere between Newport, Sylvania, Blue Mountains and Dural for a game of rugby. (And the same mismatches are occurring) In 10Ds there are 2 teams who are getting flogged by 50 points a week and travelling all over Sydney for the pleasure. How many do you reckon will be back next year?

It would still be possible to have graded competitions for these kids in which all the teams are reasonably local.

 

[mangled]

You need get a rep to an all clubs meeting ... When some of us from club land bring this up other clubs disagree! !!!.. majority is ruling... or should I say majority that turn up..... get your president to the meeting

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm told the club had a rep there - I don't know the ins and outs of it as my son isn't in that team, but the team trains the same night as us and we have the usual chat about how they are going each week etc.

I'm not blaming the SJRU as such for the situation - I don't believe it's possible to correctly grade 89 teams. I'm against the system which produces this result.

 

[mangled]

Sorry im talking about the travel. Grading will never be exact unfortunately. .. But I think its the same with most sports. .