Argentina v Australia, Mendoza 4/10/14

[Brumby Runner]

I tend to agree, we've given this 2nd playmaker thing a go and it aint working so lets go back to the model that has proven so successful for us in the past..Kerevi a possible smokie for EOYT I reckon.

Inman before Kerevi surely. Kerevi has the makings of a star, but to my viewing has a few defensive issues atm. Still have To'omua as number one No 12 especially playing outside Quade as I think it will be on the EOYT, but Inman should be considered for the tour as back up.

 

[Brumby Runner]

that is one proposition I entirely agree with, if he plays 10 for the Brumbies again that's where he should be pencilled in for the RWC, whether it be 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice..

Yeah, just like Beale playing 12 for the Tahs and being pencilled in at 10 for the Wallabies. Think Link needs to rethink some of his selections or call on the Super coaches to deliver to his overall plan. But to make it plain, I think now is the time for Beale to be parachuted out altogether.

 

[KOB1987]

Inman before Kerevi surely. Kerevi has the makings of a star, but to my viewing has a few defensive issues atm. Still have To'omua as number one No 12 especially playing outside Quade as I think it will be on the EOYT, but Inman should be considered for the tour as back up.

yes, possibly to soon for him..whatever style of centre play the brains trust settle on we certainly need to blood another 12 because at the moment we are fucked if something happens to To'omua

 

[formerflanker]

I've watched Pocock run the ball into contact. It is about the weakest part of his game. Putting him at 8 is not sound.

Bugger. Back to the drawing board then.
I am very frustrated at our team playing badly just long enough to lose. Can we scour Oz rugby for a Jack Pot type who will not only cause damage but also rev up his team?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think it is more about how we do it rather than the cattle. As you say, we just pass from the base of the ruck to a one out runner who is in a static position. We don't look prepared for meaningful contact. When the Blacks use the same tactic, it is most often Retallick but he takes the ball with a head of steam and is ready for meaningful contact with good body height and powerful leg drive. They also don't stuff around with slow ball and just go straight for the pick and go, Always someone up the arse of the ball carrier and a close supporting runner prepared for any chance of an off load.

Yep, I'm starting to think that Phipps' speed at the breakdown is taking on Urban Myth proportions. Certainly the one off pass to a static forward is not achieving anything for the Wallabies (not that that is a criticism only of Phipps - it's what we do no matter who plays No 9 it seems).

 

[Brumby Runner]

I thought To'omua was better today than he has been, didn't see any crappy kicks down the fullback's throat. Defence was good and he distributed reasonably well when it was on. What more was he expected to do? On the other hand I have seen plenty of love for Higgers who I thought was rather average in the 8 role. He spent all his time playing peek-a-boo at scrum-time (which isn't advisable when everyone knows the Argies love to employ an 8-man shove at every opportunity) and anonymous, apart from the try, around the field. Maybe I need to re-watch the game. though he wasn't alone in that regard.

The good news I felt coming out of the RC for the Wallabies is that our defence seems to have come good, the bad news is it needs to be as we can't seem to retain possession in order to build pressure. I doubt we can win a world cup with 45% possession (or less).

Higgers showed his worth and ability picking up shit ball at the back of a back-peddling scrum. Though he might have also contributed to that situation.

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah, just like Beale playing 12 for the Tahs and being pencilled in at 10 for the Wallabies. Think Link needs to rethink some of his selections or call on the Super coaches to deliver to his overall plan. But to make it plain, I think now is the time for Beale to be parachuted out altogether.

With all the new and reappearing stars coming through I think Beale's time in gold is finite..I do hope he stays with the Tahs though rather than fucks off to loig as he is great at that level and will still be a handy bloke to have around if we get to this time next year and through injury we are bit short in depth at the back.

 

[Lee Grant]

EDIT: sorry, replied to the wrong post but still part of the same convo.

You have joined the club.
.

 

[Brumby Runner]

My considered view on this game:-

1) All players but especially Kepu, Slipper and Carter looked buggered 20 minutes into the game.Not an excuse as it should have been planned for as this was always the schedule. If the bench had to start with the "starters" seeing out the last 20 or 30 so be it.
2) The kicking game as it has been for years is very very poor. After last week I asked why is it still poor and where is the kicking coach (not just goal kicking) to correct this fundamental problem. I can see that the tactics are to keep the ball in play (they didn't even attempt touch on too many occasion for it not to be a tactic) but even when they attempted to find touch they missed far to often. The less said about stupidity of the grubber kick tactic the better, but in all my years of Rugby the grubber was an opportunistic option, not a defined tactic. As for the execution, how many actually made it past the defensive line into space? 20%? FFS.
3) Attack. There remains absolutely nobody in support of the ball carrier. There is no attack in depth or second wave past the first phase. If anybody wonders why the Wallabies do not break the line, there it is. They rely totally on "X" factor players to do it all such as Folau, Beale etc. None of the forwards in this match and in past matches only Slipper have committed players in defence and offloaded. Look at how many offloads were made by Argie forwards and back in contact.
4) Defence - the only point of success in the last two games, though I suspect the issues on the wings remain with no real top end pace in the back three and the structures offering the wings to the opposition. Against the ABs in two weeks I expect this will be exploited again as it was in the 2nd Bled test.
5) Selection and bench use. The title says it all.

The illusion that some have had that the Wallabies have progressed since 2013 EOYT has been cruelly shattered. If they are advancing they need to turn around and look that they have been going the wrong way.

I was a strident critic of Deans, not because of results but simply because of how the Wallabies were playing. Well after the EOYT I dared to dream. My awakening has not been pleasant and Link had better make some changes in the office because if the Wallabies continue as they are they will not make it out of the Pool stages next year.

Gnostic, i am in total agreement with most of your post, but have to say I didn't really see any attempted touch finders not finding touch. However, I am critical of the kick for touch after winning a short arm free kick from a scrum set about 5 - 10 metres from our own goal line. This is the only occasion in the game (other than kick offs probably) where the whole team is on side when the kick is taken. Why go for touch at best about 25 - 30 m from the goal line when it could be hoofed down field to close to the opposition 20 m line with a full defensive line following after. Oppositon gets possession in both cases, but if executed efficiently, we would get better field position with most of the opposition then in off side positons. Think you'll see the ABs adopt this tactic more often than not

 

[BarneySF]

Is it just me or won't Beale be woefully found -out in loig? Front on defence etc.? Don't you have to be ok at tackling?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Cooper Cronk for Foley. Inglis as a wing. Jarryd Hayne as an outside back replacement with a better tolerance to alcohol.

The list is endless.

I agree with you FilthRugby!

My fixation with league players started with Walter Lewis.

If you start to consider AFL players your head, like mine has, will explode.

Others might have beaten me, but one W Lewis was a rugby star before changing to League.

 

[Dave Beat]

Referring to the MOM rankings down the right hand side - WTF was everyone watching, seriously Hooper that low. He went hard the whole game, on the ball and with the ball - I'd been waiting for the Rankings and it up - at least someone else with a bit of rugby nouse saw it the same way.

Michael Hooper

You guys have him at 13th on the ranker, and that blows my mind. Easily the man of the stats, topping the tackle count, no misses, a heap of runs, and run metres, with defenders beaten, steals and big plays. I’d love to see his GPS numbers, because he popped up in places he had no rights to be, and made crucial tackles. A great game.

100% correct is my judgement, have a go he was still going hard in the last 10 with charge downs. No way was that a bin, it was a bloody good attempt to turn the game around, wish other players had that ticka the whole game


3 Hooper as per above
2 Kuindrani
1 Horwill.

Possession one that game, what was the final stat, some stupid kicks by us - did the Puma's gift us much ball from kicks.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Dave Beat. You may want to edit your nomination in the MOM thread.

3 Hooper -in D
2 Hooper - in A
1 Kuridrani

Consider this advice about how the G&GR Player of the Year votes are counted.

Your votes are void unless you give all 3. Just so you know. We use this for our player of the year.

Unless you revise/edit your post in the MOM thread, your nominees will get zero points in the G&GR player of the year count. Not sure that is your intent.

 

[Ruggo]

Yep, I'm starting to think that Phipps' speed at the breakdown is taking on Urban Myth proportions. Certainly the one off pass to a static forward is not achieving anything for the Wallabies (not that that is a criticism only of Phipps - it's what we do no matter who plays No 9 it seems).

Genia had the right stuff when the Reds were at their best but they played the same static one out ball runner this year. When on song he is the best at marshaling our pack as one unit. Cooper also in that he demands not to accept shit ball and seeks go forward and quick recycling before calling for it. I don't think that is the heart of the problem though.

At the end of the day I think it is a coaching issue and it manifests through different levels in Australian rugby. We are also naive in hyping up individual players as the solution to the problem. Then we scream for them to be chucked on the shit pile when they don't prove to be the solution. In comparison, NZ rugby plays with the intent I described in my original post as second nature. It is ingrained into them as the base standard. You only need to look at their fowards in their super franchises or even at NPC level.

The closet we have seen to it in Australia is the Brumbies of the last couple of seasons. By far they are not the biggest pack going around but they put the emphasis on technique and punch well above their weight. They are also highly organised. We should all mourn the loss of Laurie Fisher to Australian Rugby.

 

[Marcelo]

What is the status of injured players? Will we have more depth?

 

[Lorenzo]

Is it just me or won't Beale be woefully found -out in loig? Front on defence etc.? Don't you have to be ok at tackling?

It's easier to predict changes in possession in league and therefore easier to plan for shifting someone to the outside. Most of the action in league happens in the middle.

 

[KOB1987]

I read somewhere that he would be a halfback option from where he can snipe and put blokes in holes..also I think the 5/8 plays a similar role as rugby in that they are the playmaker and often not the best defender e.g. Benji Marshall

 

[Train Without a Station]

Just grab at blokes and never complete a 1 on 1 tackle? Beale should be fine.

 

[Slim 293]

Referring to the MOM rankings down the right hand side - WTF was everyone watching, seriously Hooper that low. He went hard the whole game, on the ball and with the ball - I'd been waiting for the Rankings and it up - at least someone else with a bit of rugby nouse saw it the same way.

Michael Hooper

You guys have him at 13th on the ranker, and that blows my mind. Easily the man of the stats, topping the tackle count, no misses, a heap of runs, and run metres, with defenders beaten, steals and big plays. I’d love to see his GPS numbers, because he popped up in places he had no rights to be, and made crucial tackles. A great game.

100% correct is my judgement, have a go he was still going hard in the last 10 with charge downs. No way was that a bin, it was a bloody good attempt to turn the game around, wish other players had that ticka the whole game


3 Hooper as per above
2 Kuindrani
1 Horwill.

Possession one that game, what was the final stat, some stupid kicks by us - did the Puma's gift us much ball from kicks.

I thought Hooper, as an individual, played well...............

But he failed as a captain, and the stupid yellow card towards the end of the match was extremely disappointing.

 

[Dave Beat]

I thought Hooper, as an individual, played well.....

But he failed as a captain, and the stupid yellow card towards the end of the match was extremely disappointing.

I don't think you mean he is an individual player - I think he is definitely a team player - but interesting as a captain;

What makes a good coach, what makes a good captain.
Was it Rod McQueen or was it John Eales who guided us on the good run.
Do you pick a team, or a game plan first.
For what it's worth I like Hooper as a Captain, and hope it is the start of a new era and the team grows around him. He has consistently gone the full 80 and leads by example.

People have said QC (Quade Cooper) isn't up for test rugby, i put KB (Kurtley Beale) in a similar box (& I'm not a KB (Kurtley Beale) fan) - and a "C" in there as well. QC (Quade Cooper) had the Reds humming when they one the S15 title because over the preseason and the season the team got to read him and therefore his individual brilliance had the team looking good. KB (Kurtley Beale) is similar and a preseason / season brought the goods. With tests some of this is lost with new combinations, and there is no pre-season. The best example of this was the last EOY tour, the team started to read and understand QC (Quade Cooper) and there was some great rugby with plenty of tries.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what the best captain in the world could have done differently - what go and tap the person on the shoulder and ask "please pu that laser away".

What topped it off in the last 20 on attack, on the Puma's 22 Izzy tries a grubber and gives them back the ball.