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Wallaby Captaincy

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cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I'd be happy for Hooper to not be the captain, but it truly remains an unknown as to whether Moore will be good, bad or indifferent as Wallaby Captain, based on his previous limited captaincy experience.
To be clear, I was quite happy he was named when he was, and agree, if actually fit and in form he should take the position back, but anyone claiming he is clearly going to be better is guessing. Or is Slim293! ;)
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I was happy to accept him flaws as a captain as he was young and would grow into the role. Richie McCaw's leadership was questioned early on also if I recall correctly.

But his handling of the Beale issue in public has come across poor and shows he has a long way to go in some aspects.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Hey, I never commented on the quality of his captaincy, just that he was Link's first choice when he had all players available................... :p
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
cyclopath said:
You're getting slow, you would have bitten sooner and harder before!
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best-of-homer-simpson_o_900974.jpg
 
Wilson

Wilson

Michael Lynagh (62)
Braveheart81 said:
This is obviously a topic that is pretty much out of bounds but why the assumption that the Wallabies are full of state based cliques?

It might be true for brand new players, but we're talking about players who've been around the side for a long time and plenty of them have played for multiple Super Rugby teams. Some of the players from different states played and toured together as early as with Australian Schoolboys.

From what I understand, if you were picking Beale's closest mates in the squad, that wouldn't include Hooper.



I agree Moore is the obvious captain but it's going to be a tough run back from injury to be at peak form for the RWC. We'll essentially be naming our preferred RWC Captain in early-mid July.

It will be a huge challenge for him to make himself the obvious choice from a form and fitness perspective by that point.
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The assumption is that hooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) backed Beale publicly so they or at least the leadership positions may end up being collateral damage. The only other indication that tahs players may be more at fault seems to be based on Fairfax having the disgruntled sources in wallabies camp. Understandable but hardly a smoking gun.
 
Scoey

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I think there is an unrealistic expectation amongst fans that great captains and leaders are plentiful. They are a rare breed indeed. I think if you have a guy that is passable then you're probably doing well. If he's effective then you're sweet but we still expect greatness from our 'chosen ones' and I'm sorry to say they just don't come along that often.

When was the last great Wallaby captain? I would say Eales. How many other national teams currently have a 'great' captain. McCaw would fit the bill. DeVilliers would come close but I don't think I'd put him in that category. Regardless, I don't think any of our current crop will ever likely be considered in the same category as Eales, McCaw or DeVilliers in terms of leadership.

Hooper's not a great captain, passable at best. But he's the best option at the moment and I doubt it was his choice. He's doing the best he can and he's learning I'm sure.

By all means, it's a good debate to have but make sure your expectations fit the reality that great captains are probably once in a generation at best.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Wilson said:
The assumption is that hooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) backed Beale publicly so they or at least the leadership positions may end up being collateral damage. The only other indication that tahs players may be more at fault seems to be based on Fairfax having the disgruntled sources in wallabies camp. Understandable but hardly a smoking gun.
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They're captain and vice-captain.

Whilst I think they were far too positive in their defence of Beale and they stepped into the question of whether KB (Kurtley Beale) should be sacked over it too much (they could have just maintained their support without specifically addressing that question), I'd like to think that the team made a decision that they would publicly support their teammates at all times and this is just that showing through. If the captain and vice-captain were two different people we'd still be hearing the same sort of support for the teammate.
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Wilson said:
The assumption is that hooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) backed Beale publicly so they or at least the leadership positions may end up being collateral damage. The only other indication that tahs players may be more at fault seems to be based on Fairfax having the disgruntled sources in wallabies camp. Understandable but hardly a smoking gun.
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That sort of collateral damage would be I think, over the top. Maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was a bit more supportive and I understand why (that is, being a good mate and heading off OS irrespective).

Is Moore back for S 15 start
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
Scoey said:
Hooper's not a great captain, passable at best. But he's the best option at the moment and I doubt it was his choice. He's doing the best he can and he's learning I'm sure.
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Just to add to that he's only (just!) 23 and in many ways it's pretty unfair to expect someone that age to be good at a skill like captaincy.

He's played under 6 other captains in less than 2 years too, not really a very good apprenticeship.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Strewthcobber said:
Just to add to that he's only (just!) 23 and in many ways it's pretty unfair to expect someone that age to be good at a skill like captaincy.

He's played under 6 other captains in less than 2 years too, not really a very good apprenticeship.
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He was the youngest player on the recent tour to South Africa and Argentina.

It's quite amazing really that he's risen to captaining the Wallabies at such a young age.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
Pocock will be back for Super Rugby though, and is 3 months further along with his recovery. If all goes well, might he be the WC captain?
 
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Sword of Justice

Sword of Justice

Bill McLean (32)
I don't like Hooper as captain but until Moore comes back, who else in the starting team have we got? As Strewthcobber points out there's no guarantee Moore will be back in form at all, the same with Pocock.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is an outside back and from what I've seen doesn't communicate that well with refs, talking back and running his mouth is an unfortunate part of his game.

Slipper could be a great option but having a prop as captain is obviously not likely.

Horwill's form fluctuates and before Hooper people were calling for his captaincy band.

The only logical conclusion is of course: Quade Cooper. In seriousness though I think until an obvious choice is there to replace him, Hooper will be the captain and with the team about to experience a high turnover in just a years time I would have faith in him to develop and could turn into our version of a McCaw.
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Scoey said:
I think there is an unrealistic expectation amongst fans that great captains and leaders are plentiful. They are a rare breed indeed. I think if you have a guy that is passable then you're probably doing well. If he's effective then you're sweet but we still expect greatness from our 'chosen ones' and I'm sorry to say they just don't come along that often.

When was the last great Wallaby captain? I would say Eales. How many other national teams currently have a 'great' captain. McCaw would fit the bill. DeVilliers would come close but I don't think I'd put him in that category. Regardless, I don't think any of our current crop will ever likely be considered in the same category as Eales, McCaw or DeVilliers in terms of leadership.

Hooper's not a great captain, passable at best. But he's the best option at the moment and I doubt it was his choice. He's doing the best he can and he's learning I'm sure.

By all means, it's a good debate to have but make sure your expectations fit the reality that great captains are probably once in a generation at best.
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Its funny really that captaincy judged by history are considered GREAT co-incide with GREAT teams with GREAT results.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Scrubber2050 said:
Its funny really that captaincy judged by history are considered GREAT co-incide with GREAT teams with GREAT results.
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Were they great teams because of a great captain, or were they great captains because of a great team?
 
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