The Pulverisation of Australian Rugby

[It is what it is]

^^^^^^^
Well said!

 

[Dave Beat]

Where does this 64% come from. The clubs want to make it sound as though they take nobodies off the street and turn them into professionals. How many players have the clubs produced that weren't part of a major schools competition, and junior rep system. That's what the clubs really produce. Otherwise it's just an incubator for some of those players are aren't immediately ready for professionalism after school.

Frustrating, you continually make unjustified comments, make reference to facts (which aren't facts), and provide no thoughts or constructive plan.

Spending less than 30 seconds looking at one club - recently
Cadryen Neville went from rowing, through the lower grades of Manly, onto First grade, Then the Rebels and even within the Wallaby Squad.

I'm sure there is more as well.

 

[Dave Beat]

^^^^^^^
Well said!

Doesnt it suck when you go ^^^^^^ and there is nothing above because you jumped a page - agree with you though.

 

[Train Without a Station]

My old subbies club the Bond Pirates is back training now, runs a number of junior teams, is solely run on volunteers and conducts junior gala days. Where's their ARU grant?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Frustrating, you continually make unjustified comments, make reference to facts (which aren't facts), and provide no thoughts or constructive plan.

Spending less than 30 seconds looking at one club - recently
Cadryen Neville went from rowing, through the lower grades of Manly, onto First grade, Then the Rebels and even within the Wallaby Squad.

I'm sure there is more as well.

What's to say he wouldn't have ended up down at Mosman Rugby Club and become a good player if Shute Shield didn't exist though?

Spending 30 seconds looking at your club you've found one highly reported cross-sport athlete. Don't act like there's just an abundance of these guys because there is one that has had a bit of press so is well know.

I'll give you Scott Higginbotham too, only played 3rd XV at school. Potentially Luke Burgess also.

 

[Dave Beat]

My old subbies club the Bond Pirates is back training now, runs a number of junior teams, is solely run on volunteers and conducts junior gala days. Where's their ARU grant?

I could say money has gone through the whole of the Rebels because you still haven't come back on my earlier question/s and justified growth down there, but know - your comment would be one better that would also be a waste of money - they play social football, if they had aspirations to play at a higher level they would have joined a premier club to start with.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well no Premier Clubs have junior teams on the Gold Coast so that would be difficult.

I'm being deliberately facetious anyway.

I haven't researched what the Rebels have done. But they have a number of Community Development Officers and seem to flood my newsfeed with junior carnivals year round. So I think that's what they are doing.

You could say more money has gone through the Rebels.

I could also say having the Rebels, a 5th team, in a 5th City and TV & Sponsorship Market bring more money back into Australian Rugby than the Manly Marlins. This will also grow much more than the Manly Marlins will.

 

[Ash]

This shows your background: none are. Not a single one from 2013 played s 15 this year, IIRC.
The ARU has no independent right to exist in its present form: it survives on goodwill from countless volunteers while the board sup on fine wine and golden parachutes employing their old school buddies.
You should get out there and actually look at the work put in by the Clubs: all back training in November, amateur coaches in all but the top positions, amateur players for all but the top spots.
And imagine the uproar from the other states if NSW and QLD had field just one team in NRC - how would that have sat with Fox? How would it have answered the ARU's self imposed and desperate need for a 3rd tier?
As for the ARC its demise lies squarely at the feet of JON - the money it cost to run he sagely foresaw would be need to pay him his exit fee.
Any way I shall try to restrain myself from repeating my arguments - I swore off this site!

And this attitude is what drives a further wedge between the ARU and the SS clubs, and even SS clubs and other rugby supporters.

The ARU board members (and some of its executive) are paid less than what they should be, and the ARU itself has gone through massive pain trying to cut costs, including laying off a lot of staff. There's been desperate cuts at all levels, including a levy everyone despises.

Meanwhile, a $28k grant lost to Shute Shield clubs suddenly spells the end of the world. There seems, to people outside (e.g. those in Subbies clubs and others), to be a huge entitlement complex around SS clubs.

As an anecdote, as someone in a Subbies club a few years back I had a passing acquaintance with Randwick and their attitude, and it wasn't pleasant at all. If you weren't Randwick, they didn't care. To the level of warehousing colts who would never get a game, just because they could.

 

[It is what it is]

Well no Premier Clubs have junior teams on the Gold Coast so that would be difficult.

I'm being deliberately facetious anyway.

I haven't researched what the Rebels have done. But they have a number of Community Development Officers and seem to flood my newsfeed with junior carnivals year round. So I think that's what they are doing.

You could say more money has gone through the Rebels.

I could also say having the Rebels, a 5th team, in a 5th City and TV & Sponsorship Market bring more money back into Australian Rugby than the Manly Marlins. This will also grow much more than the Manly Marlins will.

But at what cost to the ARU?
I'm guessing but don't the Rebels currently cost the ARU around $5 million or so a year to prop up?

 

[formerflanker]

Well no Premier Clubs have junior teams on the Gold Coast so that would be difficult.

I'm being deliberately facetious anyway.

I haven't researched what the Rebels have done. But they have a number of Community Development Officers and seem to flood my newsfeed with junior carnivals year round. So I think that's what they are doing.

You could say more money has gone through the Rebels.

I could also say having the Rebels, a 5th team, in a 5th City and TV & Sponsorship Market bring more money back into Australian Rugby than the Manly Marlins. This will also grow much more than the Manly Marlins will.

The base, TWAS, the base! Our game will wither if the base of the pyramid is starved. It will do no-one any good to have the top layers of rugby in Oz doing OK if they don't have pathways below them to provide players.
The Rebels have already done well with Shute-Shield hardened players from the Marlins in Eddie Aholei, Caydern Neville, Luke Jones, and the flanker whose name I can't remember.
Premier clubs in all states provide players to the Super teams. Allow the premier clubs to wither and the Super teams wither.
Super teams (and therefore Australian rugby) need premier clubs to be stable; some funding from the ARU would help the premier clubs continue to provide players to the elite levels.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I believe so. When you consider that they are getting around $15M which is due to increase to around $40M now wouldn't you consider that a decent investment as part of growing a market? The $3M share of TV revenue will be worth closer to $8M if that's the case. If that's the case that will suddenly be $3M back in ARU coffers. I'm not saying the Rebels are responsible for this, but there Rebels are an important factor in a TV product due to their market and potential growth.

Obviously NSW and QLD gets more viewers, but Melbourne is an important market for Foxtel as they have a low subscription base they are trying to grow.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The base, TWAS, the base! Our game will wither if the base of the pyramid is starved. It will do no-one any good to have the top layers of rugby in Oz doing OK if they don't have pathways below them to provide players.
The Rebels have already done well with Shute-Shield hardened players from the Marlins in Eddie Aholei, Caydern Neville, Luke Jones, and the flanker whose name I can't remember.
Premier clubs in all states provide players to the Super teams. Allow the premier clubs to wither and the Super teams wither.
Super teams (and therefore Australian rugby) need premier clubs to be stable; some funding from the ARU would help the premier clubs continue to provide players to the elite levels.

You mean Luke Jones the Gordon junior who played Australian Schoolboys and Australian Under 20s and was the first forward signed to a professional contract from school?

 

[Dave Beat]

I could also say having the Rebels, a 5th team, in a 5th City and TV & Sponsorship Market bring more money back into Australian Rugby than the Manly Marlins. This will also grow much more than the Manly Marlins will.

I don't doubt that, hows the money spent on Cipriani, JOC (James O'Connor), and KB (Kurtley Beale) going?

 

[formerflanker]

As an anecdote, as someone in a Subbies club a few years back I had a passing acquaintance with Randwick and their attitude, and it wasn't pleasant at all. If you weren't Randwick, they didn't care. To the level of warehousing colts who would never get a game, just because they could.

Now that's where "player power" should be used. Warehoused Colts should walk from the club and go where they can play.

 

[Train Without a Station]

They've got a better crowd average than the Storm so it must have been ok.

 

[Braveheart81]

But at what cost to the ARU?
I'm guessing but don't the Rebels currently cost the ARU around $5 million or so a year to prop up?

That was a one off when the ARU took control of the Rebels and had to provide a long term loan as part of that takeover.

We're yet to see the results for a full year after that change.

2014 will be telling in terms of what the Rebels actually costs the ARU.

 

[Dave Beat]

You mean Luke Jones the Gordon junior who played Australian Schoolboys and Australian Under 20s and was the first forward signed to a professional contract from school?

Think he meant Jordy Reid as he came through the juniors, and colts - he had aleady mentioned Luke Jones.

 

[Dave Beat]

That was a one off when the ARU took control of the Rebels and had to provide a long term loan as part of that takeover.

We're yet to see the results for a full year after that change.

2014 will be telling in terms of what the Rebels actually costs the ARU.

Did the loan proceeds involve / assist with investment in Cipriani, JOC (James O'Connor), and KB (Kurtley Beale) or did it help them with developing the Dewar schools and colts?

 

[formerflanker]

You mean Luke Jones the Gordon junior who played Australian Schoolboys and Australian Under 20s and was the first forward signed to a professional contract from school?

Good point. However my post referred to "Shute Shield-hardened players". What was the Rebels franchise to do with Jones after signing him? Surely not the bad old days of training all week with your Super academy and sitting in a suit on the sidelines every weekend? Or playing in a lower standard club game locally?
No, they worked out a system where players could train with the Rebels early in the week, and then (hopefully) get back to Manly for Thursday's training and Saturdays's game. Tougher competition, playing with and against other fringe Super players and battle scarred veterans all added to player development.
Surely the ARU must to some extent support that process.

 

[formerflanker]

Think he meant Jordy Reid as he came through the juniors, and colts - he had aleady mentioned Luke Jones.

You got him! Thanks.
I was surprised to see Jordy playing centre for Box Hill in the 2014 season. Although there was a long-term injury issue, I think Jordy's development would have been accelerated by playing flanker for Manly.