Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016
- Thread starter Brumby Runner
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HoldingOn
Alfred Walker (16)
Aaron Smith was fulfilling the role of the talking mouth on a stick well last night. Along with Cane and the rest of the AB team
John S
Chilla Wilson (44)
So does that mean we do the same thing and really tick off the ref?
Unfortunately we have such a bad rep with refs that other teams get away with the chat and refs tell us to bugger off. Until we fix it, having our 15 trying to shout at the ref won't help matters.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Whether there was an actual gouge or not Franks should consider himself very very very lucky.
But there's more important things Cheika and the wallabies should be focusing on right now other than foul play and covert meetings with referees, neither of which had any influence on the result.
Citing commissioner has made his ruling.
Time to move on.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I'll break this into two parts:-
1) Wallabies
The only part that improved was the intensity. The rest remains shite. The fundamental skills are just not there to improve so we cannot expect that to actually get better in the space of a week. What is very disappointing is the lack of improvement the in the structures that they are using.
The defensive structures are leading to massive missed tackle counts because the structure is being easily beaten by opposition attacks targeting forwards in particular and the wings who are being brought in on a narrow pattern. It is very easy to be critical of the individuals in this but that would mean that historically very good tacklers have lost their individual skill set.
That follows onto a real area of concern, exit strategy, DHP is the only genuine Fullback in the team and has perhaps the biggest boot in the side (a kick off required with Hodge to determine) but he is never used in exit strategies, indeed he is never in a position to be used. Why bother selecting a second 15 on the wing if he never plays the position because Cooper or Foley are dropping out of the line to take that role? Would be better having a bus like Naiyavoro (sp) or somebody with out and out speed. Just the fundamental structures being used are a waste. Some people will say that the defensive structure and application was improved on last week. I would call that out simply on the fact that the Wallabies again missed over 30 tackles from one stat that was published. That is a failure at any pro level and is a repeated factor in the last 6 tests.
Attack - WTF does Larkham do? What is their intent in attack? Should we really be expecting something different, as the Brumbies had two parts of SFA in attack as well. I honestly don't think he has any idea at all and the political expediency of Chieka appointing him as an assistant with no real experience or success is being shown up.
Lineout - for mine Moore needs to be dropped from at least the starting side and possible the 23. The lineout improved when Mumm of all people replaced Fardy and TPN was throwing in FFS. Add to that Moore's run stats would have to be in the negative and as Captain every ref this year has just told him to go away. Also interesting that When Mumm was on there was only two lineout options, him and Douglas. So much for need 3.5 options to be able to compete as Mumm took each throw we had in that period. No one AB throw was under pressure in the entire game. Are the Wallaby coaching group up to doing the analysis and working out the ABs (or England) to at least put genuine pressure on them?
Scrum - as usual it is hard to call this area without a lot of footage, so I feel for the refs a little bit, but not much. The referees must slow down a bit themselves and look first at the set up, Franks (which we saw more footage of this side of the scrum on Fox) was binding on the arm of Sio quite often. If his name was Baxter he would have been in the bin. There is a pause between the set and the feed, look at the bind. If its not right call it up and re-set or at least penalise it when the scrum goes down. So many re-sets are being caused by both sides not setting correctly in the first place.
So in summary for the Wallabies, they tried hard with fundamentally flawed skills in passing and kicking with a flawed defensive system and no attack system. We could on this say that did well with what they had. I am reminded of General Melchard from Blackadder, "If all else fails at least we have the pigheaded refusal to face the facts and continue on." and the post match interviews about heart and belief in the group casts Chieka as the Stephan Fry character, does that make Larkham Captain Darling?
1) Wallabies
The only part that improved was the intensity. The rest remains shite. The fundamental skills are just not there to improve so we cannot expect that to actually get better in the space of a week. What is very disappointing is the lack of improvement the in the structures that they are using.
The defensive structures are leading to massive missed tackle counts because the structure is being easily beaten by opposition attacks targeting forwards in particular and the wings who are being brought in on a narrow pattern. It is very easy to be critical of the individuals in this but that would mean that historically very good tacklers have lost their individual skill set.
That follows onto a real area of concern, exit strategy, DHP is the only genuine Fullback in the team and has perhaps the biggest boot in the side (a kick off required with Hodge to determine) but he is never used in exit strategies, indeed he is never in a position to be used. Why bother selecting a second 15 on the wing if he never plays the position because Cooper or Foley are dropping out of the line to take that role? Would be better having a bus like Naiyavoro (sp) or somebody with out and out speed. Just the fundamental structures being used are a waste. Some people will say that the defensive structure and application was improved on last week. I would call that out simply on the fact that the Wallabies again missed over 30 tackles from one stat that was published. That is a failure at any pro level and is a repeated factor in the last 6 tests.
Attack - WTF does Larkham do? What is their intent in attack? Should we really be expecting something different, as the Brumbies had two parts of SFA in attack as well. I honestly don't think he has any idea at all and the political expediency of Chieka appointing him as an assistant with no real experience or success is being shown up.
Lineout - for mine Moore needs to be dropped from at least the starting side and possible the 23. The lineout improved when Mumm of all people replaced Fardy and TPN was throwing in FFS. Add to that Moore's run stats would have to be in the negative and as Captain every ref this year has just told him to go away. Also interesting that When Mumm was on there was only two lineout options, him and Douglas. So much for need 3.5 options to be able to compete as Mumm took each throw we had in that period. No one AB throw was under pressure in the entire game. Are the Wallaby coaching group up to doing the analysis and working out the ABs (or England) to at least put genuine pressure on them?
Scrum - as usual it is hard to call this area without a lot of footage, so I feel for the refs a little bit, but not much. The referees must slow down a bit themselves and look first at the set up, Franks (which we saw more footage of this side of the scrum on Fox) was binding on the arm of Sio quite often. If his name was Baxter he would have been in the bin. There is a pause between the set and the feed, look at the bind. If its not right call it up and re-set or at least penalise it when the scrum goes down. So many re-sets are being caused by both sides not setting correctly in the first place.
So in summary for the Wallabies, they tried hard with fundamentally flawed skills in passing and kicking with a flawed defensive system and no attack system. We could on this say that did well with what they had. I am reminded of General Melchard from Blackadder, "If all else fails at least we have the pigheaded refusal to face the facts and continue on." and the post match interviews about heart and belief in the group casts Chieka as the Stephan Fry character, does that make Larkham Captain Darling?
HoldingOn
Alfred Walker (16)
Poite destroyed our scrum against England last time- so maybe we have improved in that area? Although with him refereeing everything seems to be a lottery
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
Is this meant to surprise anyone?
Rugby Heaven Retweeted
Tom Decent @tomdecent 18m18 minutes ago
Hansen on eye-gouge: "I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there's nothing to answer for" @SMHsport
Rugby Heaven Retweeted
Hansen on eye-gouge: "I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there's nothing to answer for" @SMHsport
swingpass
Peter Sullivan (51)
irrespective of the reason, Moore needed to heed Poite's instructions to simply STFU and stay away. i agree the captain should be able to talk to (not at) the ref, but i was yelling at my TV to Moore to shut up and stop whinging after only about 10 -15 minutes of the match. aside from one or two things i actually thought Poite handled the game pretty well and really had little or no influence on the outcome. i think Gels post above is correct, the impression is the Wallabies are a bunch of whingers, the current captain cant handle the task but i dont know who apart from Pocock is up to the task. (ps Nigel Owens was much more disdainful of the Wallaby captain than Poite)
Pedrolicus
Dick Tooth (41)
The main problem was the lineout. If we could win roughly all of our own and pinch one the possession and territory stats would change dramatically.
Defence was so much better, there may be structural issues but the wallabies were much sharper, reducing receivers time and space.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
Defence was so much better, there may be structural issues but the wallabies were much sharper, reducing receivers time and space.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
dru
Tim Horan (67)
50% of a Beauden?
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Part two:-
The All Blacks.
The gulf between the Wallabies and the ABs is as wide as it ever has been, because of the issues stated in part 1 of my two part post and the improved base skill levels of the ABs players. Couple that with effective coaching that sees attacking plays, even break out counter attack with support in depth. (contrasted with Genia's only Australian break out leaving him totally isolated and the first arriving player (a forward in Hooper) arriving on his own after two NZ forwards have arrived and are attacking the ball). The fundamentals are just that far ahead and it comes down to structures. There is nothing else to say, on the basis of the 6 tests I've seen this year from both sides the margins we have seen are the best the Wallabies can do with the structures they have, and scoring a hard fought single try with the ABs down to 14 men is about the extent of the Wallabies ability to attack under Larkham. The ABs are far and away the better side and the Wallabies of no real threat at all so much so that if they were to play 10 tests this year I think the Wallabies would concede an average of four tries in each game and would be lucky to score 5 in the series. That makes the following points so much more salient in terms of the cynicism.
Owen Franks is obviously the inheritor of the great NZ mantle of cheap shot scum bag in the mould of Colin Meads and Richard Loe. If he gets away with attacking the face of Douglas it is an absolute joke. There was one shot where after he actually removed his hand from Douglas' face it appeared he took a grip on his throat and Douglas appear to be gasping for air. That last may have been a trick of the camera and I'd like to have another look but it certainly looked that way to me. If the citing commissioner has failed to take action as reported and the Wallabies have also failed to make a complaint then both sets of officials are idiots. I'll take that further and say that both are derelict in their duty and should be sacked/resign because it was clear and obvious and any decision to take no action is just that, a dereliction, in a year when we see a player slip over and take the feet of another in the air being yellow carded a deliberate act of foul play is ignored. Beyond ridiculous.
The continuous professional cynical penalties conceded by the All Blacks in their 22 just has to be policed in the first instance. No after two or three warnings (as most sides simply won't get two or three shots at the AB line). It has to be policed up front straight away. It is a historical tactic that has worked well for them and obviously continues to work very well indeed. It doesn't make it right and actually be-littles the achievements of the side in much the same way as Lance Armstrong is nothing but a cheating scumbag despite his willpower, skill and training and probably still being the best ever without the juice, he remains a cheat and someone not worthy of respect.
The All Blacks.
The gulf between the Wallabies and the ABs is as wide as it ever has been, because of the issues stated in part 1 of my two part post and the improved base skill levels of the ABs players. Couple that with effective coaching that sees attacking plays, even break out counter attack with support in depth. (contrasted with Genia's only Australian break out leaving him totally isolated and the first arriving player (a forward in Hooper) arriving on his own after two NZ forwards have arrived and are attacking the ball). The fundamentals are just that far ahead and it comes down to structures. There is nothing else to say, on the basis of the 6 tests I've seen this year from both sides the margins we have seen are the best the Wallabies can do with the structures they have, and scoring a hard fought single try with the ABs down to 14 men is about the extent of the Wallabies ability to attack under Larkham. The ABs are far and away the better side and the Wallabies of no real threat at all so much so that if they were to play 10 tests this year I think the Wallabies would concede an average of four tries in each game and would be lucky to score 5 in the series. That makes the following points so much more salient in terms of the cynicism.
Owen Franks is obviously the inheritor of the great NZ mantle of cheap shot scum bag in the mould of Colin Meads and Richard Loe. If he gets away with attacking the face of Douglas it is an absolute joke. There was one shot where after he actually removed his hand from Douglas' face it appeared he took a grip on his throat and Douglas appear to be gasping for air. That last may have been a trick of the camera and I'd like to have another look but it certainly looked that way to me. If the citing commissioner has failed to take action as reported and the Wallabies have also failed to make a complaint then both sets of officials are idiots. I'll take that further and say that both are derelict in their duty and should be sacked/resign because it was clear and obvious and any decision to take no action is just that, a dereliction, in a year when we see a player slip over and take the feet of another in the air being yellow carded a deliberate act of foul play is ignored. Beyond ridiculous.
The continuous professional cynical penalties conceded by the All Blacks in their 22 just has to be policed in the first instance. No after two or three warnings (as most sides simply won't get two or three shots at the AB line). It has to be policed up front straight away. It is a historical tactic that has worked well for them and obviously continues to work very well indeed. It doesn't make it right and actually be-littles the achievements of the side in much the same way as Lance Armstrong is nothing but a cheating scumbag despite his willpower, skill and training and probably still being the best ever without the juice, he remains a cheat and someone not worthy of respect.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Is this meant to surprise anyone?
Rugby Heaven Retweeted
Tom Decent @tomdecent 18m18 minutes ago
Hansen on eye-gouge: "I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there's nothing to answer for" @SMHsport
I am glad I never had to report a crime to Hansen when he was a Cop. Integrity level zero.
waiopehu oldboy
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Is this meant to surprise anyone?
Rugby Heaven Retweeted
Tom Decent @tomdecent 18m18 minutes ago
Hansen on eye-gouge: "I've seen the footage and I agree with the independent person who said there's nothing to answer for" @SMHsport
I'm more interested in the bit where he says he DIDN'T meet with Poite pre-game. Which does rather make TGC's' "fury" look a little misplaced..........
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11701192
Red herrings, anyone?
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
How, when the stats I saw have them missing over 30 tackles? That means their intensity and effort were better and scrambled better. The structure was still rubbish. Also the ABs dropped the pill lot more.
HoldingOn
Alfred Walker (16)
Do you believe him after what he said regarding the eye gauging incident?
Highlander35
Andrew Slack (58)
Hodge was defending in midfield most of the time.
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