Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[I like to watch]

If the ARU business model is dependant on knicking tuck shop money from kids then it's time to give up.

The ARU turns over circa $100M pa.
The levy they impose on grassroots Rugby raises a negligible amount in the scheme of things.
They should be investing more in grassroots, not treating it like its a cost centre that is required to deliver "efficiency dividends"

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If the ARU business model is dependant on knicking tuck shop money from kids then it's time to give up.

The ARU turns over circa $100M pa.
The levy they impose on grassroots Rugby raises a negligible amount in the scheme of things.
They should be investing more in grassroots, not treating it like its a cost centre that is required to deliver "efficiency dividends"

I am trying to reconcile this levy at grassroots level to comparisons in what other codes do. The league paying kids from Pi countries $50 a game to play league shows what tough competition up against. I don't have answers at grass roots level needs to be done but i know some on here do and been working on solving this. Tough one to solve and 10, 20+ year project to make any inroads here - pity did not start on this road 20 years ago but looking backwards won't do much to move forwards.


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[Train Without a Station]

People get these ideas in their heads and get completely caught up on them without actually objectively looking at the facts.

ILTW if fees are such a barrier to junior numbers, why is it not an issue for soccer with much higher fees?

Every code charges fees. Rugby is probably at the least expensive end of the scale (up there, or down there rather, with AFL and Rugby League).

Why are fees such a barrier to junior numbers for rugby, but not all these other sports, many of which charge higher fees?

This is one of those red herrings that is continually repeated by nobody can explain why it's only rugby it applies to.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

How do you suppose they pay for absolutely everything else they do as the administrators of rugby in this country?

With the three inbound tests they have each year and the poultry TV rights cash? Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Its either that or cut funding across the nation for things like grass roots, Super clubs etc.

I play Subbies and Viva 7s (the latter which cost me ~$120 for a handful of nights of touch rugby) and I'd happily pay more.

I consider it a donation more than anything.

Yes rugby fans would not be happy with state of the union as rugby has got some issues to sort out. But as an outsider I do see pulver and rest of aru trying to make some positive changes as not an easy ship to turn.

Will take a lot of hard work but I am seeing those at the top trying to drive change with a pretty political and devolved and outdated rugby model that needs fixing from the ground up. They are trying to make changes - some will work and some won't - but rather that any day then staying stagnant and accepting the status quo.


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[Pfitzy]

Every code charges fees. Rugby is probably at the least expensive end of the scale (up there, or down there rather, with AFL and Rugby League).

Why are fees such a barrier to junior numbers for rugby, but not all these other sports, many of which charge higher fees?

Maybe that's the problem?

Like Medicare, if you threatened to take that away, you'd lose an election.

The low base of rugby fees makes any increase seem like quite the unfair impost. "WHY SHOULD WE SUDDENLY PAY MORE?!!"

 

[Strewthcobber]

What have juniour player numbers done in the 2 years since the fee was introduced?

 

[I like to watch]

People get these ideas in their heads and get completely caught up on them without actually objectively looking at the facts.

ILTW if fees are such a barrier to junior numbers, why is it not an issue for soccer with much higher fees?

Every code charges fees. Rugby is probably at the least expensive end of the scale (up there, or down there rather, with AFL and Rugby League).

Why are fees such a barrier to junior numbers for rugby, but not all these other sports, many of which charge higher fees?

This is one of those red herrings that is continually repeated by nobody can explain why it's only rugby it applies to.

No, it's about how the ARU values junior participation.
They view it as a cost,whilst the other codes are lining up to throw money at participants.
The other codes dwarf Rugby's spend on junior participation, both in dollar terms & more importantly as a percentage of turnover.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy, that's exactly it. Because it was always subsidized by the ARU people just expect it to be in perpetuity and any change to that is seen as taking something away that they have a right to.

SC, I'd say they would have decreased. But I'd say they did the 2 years prior too.

Why? If there is not any correlation between fees and junior participation, how is raising fees (to a reasonable level compared to most other sports - Any more and I would agree with you) an indication that the ARU doesn't value junior participation.

Perhaps it's an indication that the ARU are aware of their financial position and therefore don't spend or subsidize areas that don't see any return.

 

[Train Without a Station]

What exactly has the turnover of the ARU got to do with it?

If it has a revenue of $100M but it costs $110M to be in business that $100M revenue means nothing.

For reference Collingwood FC and North Melbourne FC combined had a turnover of greater than $100M ($66M and $39M) in 2015. That's 2 single AFL clubs in 1 city, one at the stronger end, and one at the weaker end.

 

[Lindommer]

Pfitzy, that's exactly it. Because it was always subsidized by the ARU people.....

Having been secretary of a junior club in Sydney's inner west in years past I can tell you my club received NO subsidies from the ARU, or the NSWRU for that matter. There was some logistical support from the senior men's club to which my club was attached but nothing from further up. Nil. Nix. Zero.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Geez Lindo I thought you were a bit better then comments like that.

Because you never saw a cheque from the ARU they didn't subsidize anything?

If the current fees are what it costs to run the game, but they ARU only charged the previous fees then what would you call the difference in what people were being charged, and what the ARU were spending on it?

Personally I'd call that subsidizing it.

 

[barbarian]

No, it's about how the ARU values junior participation.
They view it as a cost,whilst the other codes are lining up to throw money at participants.
The other codes dwarf Rugby's spend on junior participation, both in dollar terms & more importantly as a percentage of turnover.

The other codes charge participation fees too, though. And many of them are greater than rugby. Does this mean they don't 'value junior participation' either?
.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The other codes charge participation fees too, though. And many of them are greater than rugby. Does this mean they don't 'value junior participation' either?
.

I have never heard fees being mentioned as reasons for lack of participation at grass roots level - I think this is bit of distraction personally


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[wamberal]

The sad fact is that our game needs paying customers of all kinds, including junior players (or their parents).

 

[I like to watch]

The other codes charge participation fees too, though. And many of them are greater than rugby. Does this mean they don't 'value junior participation' either?
.

Registration fees for kids sport is predominantly insurance and direct costs
(Uniforms,court hire, etc)
Not a levy imposed by the national ruling body.
Maybe the levy doesn't have a big impact on registrations, but it's certainly not a value add.And when compared to their competitors increasing investment in encouraging kids to play their game each year, it seems small minded.
Maybe the CEO's KPI's needed to be massively re aligned to correct this.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If with the levy the fees are comparable to other codes then perhaps the levy just assists in paying for the indirect costs, like admin, etc.

You have to consider that things like coaching courses, referee accreditation courses, etc. probably cost more than what they make in any charges. Where does this come from?

Would you be happier if it wasn't called a levy? Because it seems you are more caught up with the wording than the cost of rugby compared to other sports.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

OK just on the fees bit, it costs us around $200 per season for our boy to play Aussie Rules and $120 to play cricket, both not including gear. How does that compare with rugby?

 

[NTT]

In Perth Rugby Union fees at my club for juniors was $250. The league club up the road was $110. Same with the senior club, $370 vs $150. Soccer fees are $200, basketball is $20 plus $10 per game court hire.
The cost of fees for junior rugby are ridiculously high vs Rugby League.
Also remember we dont have the benefit of the extra funding of poker machine revenues in WA. Thats why more grassroots funding is needed. To reduce the cost of registration to play. We are falling back into the old ways of its a privilege persons game when really it should be everyones game.

 

[I like to watch]

If with the levy the fees are comparable to other codes then perhaps the levy just assists in paying for the indirect costs, like admin, etc.

You have to consider that things like coaching courses, referee accreditation courses, etc. probably cost more than what they make in any charges. Where does this come from?

Would you be happier if it wasn't called a levy? Because it seems you are more caught up with the wording than the cost of rugby compared to other sports.

I'm caught up by the fact that the ARU have decided to directly take a chunk out of all junior registrations.
its bad enough that they spend a fraction of what their competitors spend comparatively, but adding a levy is just small minded penny pinching.
I don't care that they spend more on grassroots than they collect in levies.
That's the price of running a sustainable business.
Looking at the spend of AFL & League on juniors, and it's obvious that junior participation is of vital importance to their future.
Not so, with ARU.

 

[NTT]

Also, coaching courses and refereeing courses in WA are charged per individual attendance. If you are lucky, your club will cover these for you.

We can argue back and forth all day. The pure facts are that it costs families more to participate in Rugby Union in Perth than in other sports. This needs to be addressed.
If the fees to play rugby keep rising like they have been the last few years, we are consigning our beloved sport to a slow painful death. The economic landscape has and is continually changing, we need to change with them.