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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Tex

John Thornett (49)
Are you seriously advocating discrimination based on health records?
I know many politicians are, so you're not on your own.
That's just draconian and raises many questions about hospital treatment for people who require medical assistance because of the negative outcomes of their own decisions.
This line of thinking has been in circulation for ages. Some ED specialist gets trotted out to talk about preventable harm from alcohol, a public health duffer wants tobacco smokers to pay for their own care.

Gets good headlines but I would be very surprised if anything like that is even considered in Australia. Universality is a core precept of medicare.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Are you seriously advocating discrimination based on health records?
I know many politicians are, so you're not on your own.
That's just draconian and raises many questions about hospital treatment for people who require medical assistance because of the negative outcomes of their own decisions.
Why should our tax's pay for someone very expensive, care when they're too stupid to protect themselves from a disease.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
Why should our tax's pay for someone very expensive, care when they're too stupid to protect themselves from a disease.
And smokers pay for it with their taxes (and then some). Same goes for alcohol. Maybe we should have a tax on being anti vax.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
And smokers pay for it with their taxes (and then some). Same goes for alcohol. Maybe we should have a tax on being anti vax.
Smokers don't even come close to paying for their hospital care with the taxes raised on cigs, I doubt alcohol taxes do either.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
It's comparing apples to oranges but at 12.5% excise, government raises $15b pa from tobacco. Not sure about GST (or if it's also applied at point of sale?).

Treasury in 2005 estimated total harm from smoking reaching $35b.

Edit: browsing this piece from Treasury where they address the principles and application of taxation on cigarettes. https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/Document_57.pdf
 
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waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Just to illustrate the potential disaster that awaits regional NZ once Auckland re-opens:

79.6% of NZ is double-dosed
Taranaki 73%, 14th of 20 DHBs
Stratford 69%, 54th of 66 Cities & Districts: neighbour South Taranaki (home to our mate Dan54) is 55th.

Overnight Stratford recorded six cases. All from one family, none of them vaccinated or regular users of the tracer app & two recently returned from Auckland.

Many Aucklanders have roots in the regions & will travel there as soon as they're able. It'll be impossible to 100% police the border so inevitably some of those Aucklanders are going to be taking Covid with them.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
For what it's worth, I think the principle of collective contribution to a social/health safety net based on universal access is far more important that punitive measures that seek to punish individuals for their choices.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
Just to illustrate the potential disaster that awaits regional NZ once Auckland re-opens:

79.6% of NZ is double-dosed
Taranaki 73%, 14th of 20 DHBs
Stratford 69%, 54th of 66 Cities & Districts: neighbour South Taranaki (home to our mate Dan54) is 55th.

Overnight Stratford recorded six cases. All from one family, none of them vaccinated or regular users of the tracer app & two recently returned from Auckland.

Many Aucklanders have roots in the regions & will travel there as soon as they're able. It'll be impossible to 100% police the border so inevitably some of those Aucklanders are going to be taking Covid with them.
WOB what's the social situation like with regards to international students and backpackers? I ask as we have a unique situation here with some states applying border rules based on local government areas' vaccination rates.

For example, City of Melbourne has a formal vaccination coverage of 75% 1st dose, which means residents are unable to enter South Australia. The trick is, the denominator used (eligible population) is based on the 2019 census, while the numerator is the current number of residents vaccinated. The city is pretty empty with visa holders and students understandably fleeing over the two long lockdowns. Businesses just can't find enough staff to open, it's that dire.

Is something similar at play in NZ perhaps? Or is the community just a bit sheltered and complacent?
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
You are also lucky to be living in an island continent. It was much easier to stop transmissions from other countries.
Sweden of course shares a border with two countries and a bridge to a third.
It's also a lot colder there and our sunshine is beneficial in the control of covid.

Preferring to live in a dictatorial country over one with much more freedom for its citizens is your call, but don't expect everyone to agree with you.
LOL. Hyperbole overdrive, methinks.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
WOB what's the social situation like with regards to international students and backpackers? I ask as we have a unique situation here with some states applying border rules based on local government areas' vaccination rates.

For example, City of Melbourne has a formal vaccination coverage of 75% 1st dose, which means residents are unable to enter South Australia. The trick is, the denominator used (eligible population) is based on the 2019 census, while the numerator is the current number of residents vaccinated. The city is pretty empty with visa holders and students understandably fleeing over the two long lockdowns. Businesses just can't find enough staff to open, it's that dire.

Is something similar at play in NZ perhaps? Or is the community just a bit sheltered and complacent?

Only NZ citizens & dependants can come through MIQ unless they get a rarely-granted exemption so the only international students or backpackers currently here are the few who were here pre-Covid & chose to remain.

A small number of workers from Covid-free parts of the Pacific have been let in to work the orchards & market gardens but other than that we've pretty much gone for the hermit approach. I doubt that will outlast re-opening by very long, there's just not going to be enough people to fill all the tourism & hospo jobs that will become available.

International students brought in a lot of money pre-Covid so I'd expect to see any colleges etc that survived lockdown to re-open pretty quickly & new ones pop up to meet the demand (assuming it's still there).
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Why should our tax's pay for someone very expensive, care when they're too stupid to protect themselves from a disease.

Interesting idea, let's stop the public medical coverage all those "too stupid to protect themselves" so smokers, the obese, the alcoholics, the addict, those with T2Ds, the drivers of unsafe vehicles, those in accidents whilst DUI, skydivers and rugby players all pass excess to tax payer
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Yes, a very slippery slope denying medical care to people based on a moral judgement about the worthiness of their case. We all pay into Medicare and many of us also have private health insurance (me included) to essentially guarantee access to emergency and other treatment.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Yeah, I cannot agree with offering "adjusted" health care to non-vaxxed people. We have universal healthcare for a reason, and by and large it works well. As mentioned by others, there are many examples of people actively causing themselves harm with what they eat, smoke, drink, inject or generally do with their lives. As a society we have to look after them all.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
There health care hasn't been adjusted though has it. Just who pays for it.
Their taxes and Medicare levy (although that covers sweet FA of the health budget) pay for it. Slippery slope to restrict healthcare affordability based on stupid choices.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
There health care hasn't been adjusted though has it. Just who pays for it.
"We" decided to have a basic universal healthcare, a facility that doesn't take into account your health or lifestyle choices when factoring in your contribution, only your ability to pay.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Leaving the Medicare side of things alone: what is the life insurance situation for someone who isn't vaccinated? Or TPD?
 
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