Sydney Subbies 2025

[Pfitzy]

How do you think Hills will fare in div 3 this year?

Hard to judge as I don't know who they were missing and what some of the other clubs are doing. Clearly an outfit that has played together a lot, and have good fitness.

Considering the top 3 Clark Cup sides are no longer there (Irish, Merrylands, Oysters) it'll probably come down to retention from the other clubs.

I think across Third Div there will be some very good rugby, and Hornsby in 2024 form will be right up there with the best of them. So a wild prediction at this point for Clark Cup I'd say the top 4 in no particular order:

Hornsby, Hills, Knox, Beecroft

Valley and Raptors will want to bring a power game to the mix, which will make things interesting. Again, I have no idea how IggiCove and Barker have recruited, so I'm only going off last year.

In Farrant I think Hills abd Beecroft might have a few questions over their depth, so top 4 might look like Raptors, Hornsby, Knox, Valley.

Nicholson has to be Knox by the length of the straight, then Iggies, Valley, Beecroft, and Barker in a chasing pack. Hard to tell how Raptors will do first year back with U21, Hornsby also in that bucket.

As with many things on this forum: all wild supposition and guesswork

 

[Mad Monday]

I've noticed plenty of Div 1 clubs are venturing out of Sydney to kick off the trials campaign.

Could this be due to the earlier start for Div 2 along with an uncharacteristic Easter Break right before round 1? I think it's safe to say with ANZAC day falling on a Friday this year, most of the footy on Saturday may be unwatchable.

I would be extremely upset if i didn't see a fair few sore heads take the field after ANZAC Day. It would be very unaustralian!

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

How do you think Hills will fare in div 3 this year?

With the way the divisions have been drawn up with lots of movement I guess we are going to get the answers to those long posed questions in these forums. How would clubs match up across the divisions?

Can Irish’s pack match up with the likes of Uni and Pats or can they control the talent in Briars backs?

How do Hills a Div 2 club for the last 10-15 years go against a club like Knox or Hornsby. Is there a gap in skill in the middle divisions?

What’s the strength of the top end of Division 6? After dominating there division for the last few years how does Merrylands match up against Burraneer or the Sea Lice.

 

[ThatsCatty]

What a line up for JJC. Will be a good season!

Brothers

Colleagues

Forest

Hornsby

Hunters Hill

Lindfield

Macquarie Uni

Newport

North Cronulla

Northern Suburbs

Oatley

Old Barker

St Patrick's

Sydney Irish

University of Wollongong

UNSW

Western Raptors

 

[Crashy]

Penrith trialled against Epping on the weekend. 1 team from what I could see vs Epping's 2.

 

[Pfitzy]

What a line up for JJC. Will be a good season!

17 clubs - that's awesome. Will assume it has to be a couple of divisions.

Not quite sure how Northern Suburbs fit in there? UOW will do some travel!

4 x Div 1
4 x Div 2
3 x Div 3
1 x Div 4 (Brothers - Sisters? )
3 x Div 6

 

[21mm]

17 clubs - that's awesome. Will assume it has to be a couple of divisions.

Not quite sure how Northern Suburbs fit in there? UOW will do some travel!

4 x Div 1
4 x Div 2
3 x Div 3
1 x Div 4 (Brothers - Sisters? )
3 x Div 6

Yeah the Norths team is a bit of a head scratcher......

Subbies always so accommodating to the Sydney Rugby clubs, but the other way round, not so much.

Definitely need a name change for the Brother to the Sisters!

 

[Goober]

Penrith trialled against Epping on the weekend. 1 team from what I could see vs Epping's 2.

Headed down for a look. Penrith had about 20 players, Epping had approximately 28-30.

they played four quarters. Penrith scored in the first two minutes and led 5-0 for most of the game.

Epping scored two late tries.

Penrith have some big boppers - whom it would be fair to say are carrying a bit of off season condition. They started well but tired in the very warm conditions. Especially in the last quarter.

Id imagine the Penrith people would be happy to get the first trial under the belt yet would be hoping for more players if they hope to field 2 teams (they aren’t alone there(

There were no colts to be seen and the bar guy confirmed that’s a next year thing.

 

[ThatsCatty]

17 clubs - that's awesome. Will assume it has to be a couple of divisions.

Not quite sure how Northern Suburbs fit in there? UOW will do some travel!

4 x Div 1
4 x Div 2
3 x Div 3
1 x Div 4 (Brothers - Sisters? )
3 x Div 6

It was already a travel mess last year for a lot of clubs, so definitely will extend a bit more.

I have a feeling that a lot of women's teams won't be granted home games alongside their men's teams which is a bit of an upset.

I would definitely say 2 divisons and can already visualise who will be where.

 

[footy_footy]

I think splitting JJC into 2-3 divisions will be great for the comp and future growth. From the 2024 season it was obvious there was a pretty clear gap between the established teams, such as Hornsby, and the "new" teams who have lots of players who have never played any form of football before.

50+ nil scorelines aren't ideal but even more so as this aspect of the game continues to grow.

Having competitive games for all participants, experienced and new, will go along way to growing the women's game further. Can't wait to see this develop in 2025. Well done to all clubs for getting involved!

 

[BrumbyJack1]

Yeah the Norths team is a bit of a head scratcher......

Subbies always so accommodating to the Sydney Rugby clubs, but the other way round, not so much.

Definitely need a name change for the Brother to the Sisters!

Nobody seems to mind in Brisbane: https://brothersrugby.com/womens-rugby/

 

[The Wombat]

Word is that Mosman performed well against Lindfield in their trial.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think splitting JJC into 2-3 divisions will be great for the comp and future growth. From the 2024 season it was obvious there was a pretty clear gap between the established teams, such as Hornsby, and the "new" teams who have lots of players who have never played any form of football before.

50+ nil scorelines aren't ideal but even more so as this aspect of the game continues to grow.

Having competitive games for all participants, experienced and new, will go along way to growing the women's game further. Can't wait to see this develop in 2025. Well done to all clubs for getting involved!

I think once CC points are given due weight, First Division clubs are going to scramble to recruit, which IMHO is only a good thing.

I reckon I could get a womens team together between now and April 12th, but don't have the equipment or the personnel to run it - particularly if sending them to different locations than the men.

 

[Here To Do]

I reckon I could get a womens team together between now and April 12th, but don't have the equipment or the personnel to run it - particularly if sending them to different locations than the men.

This is the main issue - unfortunately there is a long way to go until women's comps can be fully integrated IMO.

At Briars, our women's team established themselves in the Sydney Women's comp (equivalent to Shute, kinda) before the Joy Johnson was a thing at all. This year, our first ever women's XV plays a whopping 1 game on the same day and ground as our Subbies schedule, playing at our home ground opposite the men's side every other week (away when we're home, home when we're away).

There have been numerous challenges to potentially joining the JJC given that our women's 7s have been touring internationally (we were featured in a Dubai Sevens documentary by World Rugby) and our women's Xs were runners-up to the Burra Rays in the WX Shield last season.

As Subbies is strictly amateur and SWRU is not (just look at Uni's lineup last season), there is a *potential* conflict if we were to have semi-pro or pro players in the club - to the best of my knowledge, not being involved directly with our women's side, none of our women players (or men, for that matter, despite what some like to allege) are paid.

I also think that there is concern about the strength of our women's side in the JJC if we were to play our strongest team week-in, week-out, given we are one of the more experienced clubs in Subbies from a women's rugby perspective. However, given the fact that we would likely have a full 1st XV playing somewhere else, albeit in a different comp, on the same day, IMO there wouldn't be too much cross over.

The issue is that Subbies have lagged behind Sydney Women's Rugby who celebrate 30 years this season - this has meant that any Subbies clubs who wanted to field women's sides, prior to 2-3 years ago, had to join SWRU, which is the premier competition. It isn't as simple as "add a XVs comp in parallel" because of that fragmentation. It would be great if we could have an identical women's competition, akin to what Colts is vis-a-vis grade, but I don't see it happening in the near future unless there are drastic changes.

 

[ThatsCatty]

I think once CC points are given due weight, First Division clubs are going to scramble to recruit, which IMHO is only a good thing.

I reckon I could get a womens team together between now and April 12th, but don't have the equipment or the personnel to run it - particularly if sending them to different locations than the men.

Respectfully, getting a womens team together is not an easy task!

 

[Pfitzy]

The issue is that Subbies have lagged behind Sydney Women's Rugby who celebrate 30 years this season - this has meant that any Subbies clubs who wanted to field women's sides, prior to 2-3 years ago, had to join SWRU, which is the premier competition. It isn't as simple as "add a XVs comp in parallel" because of that fragmentation. It would be great if we could have an identical women's competition, akin to what Colts is vis-a-vis grade, but I don't see it happening in the near future unless there are drastic changes.

Yet we don't have a situation where every SRU club has had XVs women despite multiple years of promises and warehousing of Mens and Colts teams. Premier Clubs like to brag about running DOs for their own for local connections, yet leave the women's game to rot on the vine.

Womens Tens is the ideal balance for most clubs, particularly in terms of the beginner level where 7s simply isn't going to suit some body types. It is done on the Central Coast and Riverina competitions as examples.

It also provides a point of different for amateur clubs to field teams, with Premier Rugby being the platform for representative honours.

Overarching all this: having a separate Womens Union has been no doubt important for the development of competitions in the first place, however what I'd like to see is more integration between Unions and increased representation of women within organisations that run rugby - both Unions and Clubs.

EDIT: You really have to question whether we need to have separate Unions for Juniors, Womens, Senior Mens Amateur, and Senior Mens Semipro in a space as small as Sydney. The governance model definitely needs a look.

 

[Pfitzy]

Respectfully, getting a womens team together is not an easy task!

I didn't say easy.

I could find the players in this area without too much trouble, but I don't have playing kit ready to roll off the shelf or a coach and manager to make it happen right now.

 

[Here To Do]

Overarching all this: having a separate Womens Union has been no doubt important for the development of competitions in the first place, however what I'd like to see is more integration between Unions and increased representation of women within organisations that run rugby - both Unions and Clubs.

I think we'd all love at see that at all levels of the game - unfortunately everyone is too proud to work together for the betterment of the sport as a whole rather than their own club at the upper end of town

 

[Pfitzy]

Speaking of competition structures: I was talking to a smart cookie today - stalwart of the Subbies landscape - who opined that Premier Rugby should look at a change of model.

While I was in favour of the Scorched Earth approach he came with a far more measured suggestion.

Each Premier club should reform into the following 4 teams:
* Senior A Squad
* Senior Reserves
* U21 Colts
* U19 Colts

This would mean a direct pathway for school leavers into an appropriate pathway for their development, allowing clubs to graduate their key players through age groups as they grow.

In parallel with this the representative squads would continue to operate as U18 and U20 in order to help fill these gaps.

No reason the best of these kids couldn't go straight to U20 of course, but we'd help catch the late bloomers as well with this sort of approach, and have a continuous increment of player aspiration and development.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Speaking of competition structures: I was talking to a smart cookie today - stalwart of the Subbies landscape - who opined that Premier Rugby should look at a change of model.

While I was in favour of the Scorched Earth approach he came with a far more measured suggestion.

Each Premier club should reform into the following 4 teams:
* Senior A Squad
* Senior Reserves
* U21 Colts
* U19 Colts

This would mean a direct pathway for school leavers into an appropriate pathway for their development, allowing clubs to graduate their key players through age groups as they grow.

In parallel with this the representative squads would continue to operate as U18 and U20 in order to help fill these gaps.

No reason the best of these kids couldn't go straight to U20 of course, but we'd help catch the late bloomers as well with this sort of approach, and have a continuous increment of player aspiration and development.

Add to that a women’s team.
Again you are seeing clubs start to warehouse women’s players and run 2 or more teams.

I think over the next few years we are going to see a big drop off of clubs and the “big” end of town get bigger and more clubs with only 1 or 2 teams.