2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[redhead]

See the post above.

There is also a Reds team listed earlier but there are links to both teams at the bottom of a blog here:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/interview-with-australian-under-20s-coach-adrian-thompson/

Does anybody have a link to a complete list of the Southern States team names?

The list posted earlier in this thread, which originated from the Brumbies, I think, had only 25 names in it and 28 were selected.
.

QLD-Tonga 27-17
NSW-Southern States 39-34

1st game without history. In fact it finished after 40 minutes with arrival of replacements. QLD dominant in first half over surprisingly (as for Tonga) smaller opponents. Some nice work from Greene, Auma, Junior and Korczyk. Placid and Gun left on the bench. Second half very scrappy and won (7-3) by ambitious Tongan.
Second game was a cracker. SS dominated in forwards for the first 20 minutes but then Deegan and backs started their try romp. 4-2 in tries at oranges. Second half very close until the end. Sio/Whiteley played at 8 for NSW (MW gets nod from me). Staniforth, Allatoa, Dempsey, o'Connor strong in forwards. Line outs hotly contested and even. NSW backline very impressive (won the game for NSW).

 

[Forcefield]

Thanks Redhead. Exciting stuff.

 

[pstoe]

Oli Nicolson is missing from the Sydney Juniors list. He played at 12 in the championship winning team that year. I hear he has been going great guns at Randwick in the 1XV No 10 during trials, and i watched him out play David Horwitz in the recent Gen Blue vs Randwick fixture. Not sure why he's fallen off the plot as he was always one to watch as a colt.

How good is our Talent Spotting and player development model (AKA the Pathway)?

This years U20 cohort were U16 in 2010.
Gaggerland Archives reveal the lads were the "elite" U16's in 2010 in NSW.

How many made it to U20's in 2014?
Where did those in this years NSW U20's who were not selected in 2010 U16's come from?

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/2010-national-under-16-championships.5899/

Sydney Juniors U16 Representative Team
1 DANIEL ELSOM MWZ
2 JAMES GOLDIE MNZ
3 SAM KITCHEN MNZ
4 GARETH LINAKER MNZ
5 LIAM MOYLAN MWZ
6 JONATHAN PALMER MWZ
7 MATT PHILIP MNZ
8 OSCAR PRYOR-LEES MSZ
9 JEROME RARU MSZ
10 SAILA SAIPELE MWZ
11 MATAGI SA'U MSZ
12 PATRICK SIO MWZ
13 CHRIS TALAKAI MWZ
14 VINNIE BARANYI MNZ
15 ALEXANDER BRUNT MWZ

16 ANDREW FERRIS MWZ
17 LALAKAI FOKETI MNZ
18 REECE HODGE MNZ
19 JAMIL HOPOATE MNZ
20 HARRY JENKINS MNZ
21 FABIAN NATOLI MNZ
22 JACK TOURISH MNZ
23 JONATHAN VAUX MNZ


NSW Schools U16 Rugby Team 2010
Will Ahosivi - Newington College
Allan Ala'alatoa - Newington College
Taylor Allen - Westfields Sports High School
Jack Dempsey - St Ignatius’ College
Jackson Fitzpatrick - Shore School
Charles Freeman - St Ignatius’ College
Daniel Gallagher - The Scots College
Clint Gutherson - Cromer High School
David Horwitz - The Scots College
Josh Kay - St Joseph’s College
Charles Ingram-Melson - Waverley College
Brandon Mafi - Granville High School
Jude Prater - The King’s School
Harry Randell - The King’s School
Jack Robertson - St Ignatius’ College
Tom Robertson - St Joseph’s College
Harry Rorke - St Ignatius’ College
Michael Rowley - Knox Grammar School
Jim Stewart - The Scots College
David Vea - Newington College
Alex Vlahos - Newington College
Mitchell Whiteley - St Ignatius’ College
Tom Wilson - Barker College

 

[Lee Grant]

QLD-Tonga 27-17
NSW-Southern States 39-34
etc

Thanks for that redhead - keep them coming.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Oli Nicolson is missing from the Sydney Juniors list. He played at 12 in the championship winning team that year. I hear he has been going great guns at Randwick in the 1XV No 10 during trials, and i watched him out play David Horwitz in the recent Gen Blue vs Randwick fixture. Not sure why he's fallen off the plot as he was always one to watch as a colt.

I don't know Oli - and missed that game - but after NSW Scout, Tim Kelaher, came up with a list of names, Cheika sent the list to the clubs and said that if anybody worthwhile was not on the list they should send them down to Under 20s training in October. ***

They got another 15—so they gave the clubs a chance to be involved in the inviting process.

You have to consider that some lads may have been invited by NSW or were asked by their club if they wanted their name put forward, but they had good reasons not to commit to three training sessions every week, starting in October.

Or, maybe his club didn't put his name forward.

*** PS - Cheika told that to me directly.
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[Lee Grant]

NSW v Southern States

Some partial comments from NSW people emailed to me throughout the match yesterday.

- NSW down 0-3 after 1 min !!

- Half-time 29-20 (NSW) When ball gets out to the backs NSW look excellent—Horwitz having a strong game—but all backs playing well.

- Southern States forwards very big and contesting everything—Staniforth very impressive !

- If NSW backs can get a bit more ball they will be very damaging.

- NSW backs hands very good - Andrew Kellaway seems to be relishing outside centre role. He set up a fantastic try for Henry Clunies-Ross.

2nd Half

- Deegan in for great try to start second half and he converted his own try from the sideline.

- All reserves now on -13 mins to go - getting a bit messy.

- 39-26 - Too many penalty kicks taken for mine.

- Ned Hanigan binned for being a pest - again !!

- Jack Dempsey and Jack McCalman having strong games.

- David Horwitz outstanding in attack and defence.

- 39-34 NSW (4 minutes to go) Persistence from Southern States who score try try through forwards.

- A good win; a bit tight towards the end but NSW played better in backs and were more inventive.

- As an aside, Queensland were only average according to comments I heard, but I didn't see the game.

(Edit - none of the above comments are mine.)
.

 

[lily]

Lee your reports suck
W

 

[Hugh Jarse]

From My Snout. Not my words either. (ex cdeegan twitter)

Warm 27c in Canberra.
QLD 24 Tonga 10.
Lolo has been awesome. Placid not playing.
Qld 24 Tonga 10 - 18 min to go. Game had died a bit in the heat.
QLd 24 Tonga 17 Penalty try to Tonga

NSW Teamsheet
1. O'connor
2. Vea
3. Sandell
4. Philip (c)
5. Hanigan
6. Dempsey
7. McCalman
8. Sio
9. Pulver
10. Deegan
11. Jones
12. Horwitz
13. Kellaway
14. Clunies-Ross
15. Vaux

16. Fiangaa
17. Orr
18. Kavapalu
19. Croke
20. Whitley
21. Natoli
22. Fakai
23. Gallagher

Game Play
NSW 0 Other 3 Early penalty
NSW 0 Other 3 very tough encounter so far.
NSW 0 Other 10 a try down the left side.
NSW 7 Other 10 Great try to NSW with multiple passes to Jack Dempsey.
NSW 12 Other 10 Rory O'Connor scores a beautiful try after multiple passes up the middle.
NSW 12 Other 13 Another penalty right in front to the baddies.
NSW 17 Other 13 Sensational try to Gallagher started by Jack McCalman and passed beautifully along the backline.
NSW 22 Other 13 Hanigan goes over!!!! Sensational!!!!
NSW 29 Other 13 This is amazing rugby! Beautiful counter attack being led by Horwitz wonderfully well
NSW 29 Other 20 mistake on attack lets them back in to the game.
NSW 29 Other 20 Half time. Really fast open game with NSW maning up very well to a very big team.
NSW 36 Other 20 Deegan scores in the corner and converts. Nice switch play 25mtrs out
Jack McCalman injured, somewhere between a little bump under the eye and 25 stitches.
NSW 36 Others 23 Another boring penalty kick - taking far too long!
NSW 36 Others 26 Hanigan sin binned for offside!
NSW 39 Others 26 Deegan replies with a penalty.
Another penalty to O in front. Will use up plenty if time!
NSW 39 Others 29 Kick successful
Another penalty against NSW. Coach is not happy.
Another penalty
NSW 39 Others 34 NSW couldn't stop the try. 5mins to go!

Full Time
NSW 39 Others 34

Massive Crowd

 

[pstoe]

I don't know Oli - and missed that game - but after NSW Scout, Tim Kelaher, came up with a list of names, Cheika sent the list to the clubs and said that if anybody worthwhile was not on the list they should send them down to Under 20s training in October. ***

They got another 15—so they gave the clubs a chance to be involved in the inviting process.

You have to consider that some lads may have been invited by NSW or were asked by their club if they wanted their name put forward, but they had good reasons not to commit to three training sessions every week, starting in October.

Or, maybe his club didn't put his name forward.

*** PS - Cheika told that to me directly.
.

I trained with Oli in the Randwick elite squad all summer, so I'm sure if he'd been asked, he would have attended the U20's training. I find it odd that a player who wins the Colt of the year and is in the team of the year can be overlooked and not given an opportunity the way some others have been.

 

[Lee Grant]

I trained with Oli in the Randwick elite squad all summer, so I'm sure if he'd been asked, he would have attended the U20's training. I find it odd that a player who wins the Colt of the year and is in the team of the year can be overlooked and not given an opportunity the way some others have been.

That's a better post, the third time around. Implying that there may have been a religious reason was completely unacceptable.

Tim Kelaher, the NSW Chief Scout, watched a lot of Colts rugby after he was appointed last June, though I don't know how many Randwick games he saw.

Kelaher spoke to all the clubs according to Cheika and somebody should ask why the Randwick club didn't put his name forward.

Maybe he was disadvantaged because the Randwick First Grade flyhalf, David Horwitz, obviously rated by the club higher than their Colts flyhalf, was always going to be in the NSW squad. Only maybe.

You said that Oli outplayed Horwitz in the trial against Randwick but that was in February and squad training had started in October. They probably weren't taking any more into the squad at that time; in fact I know a few had dropped out by then or been tapped on the shoulder.

Cheika said that when Kelaher made his initial list of 50-60 he (Cheika) sent it to the clubs and said that if anybody wasn't on it, but deserved to be, then they should be sent to training. They got 15 more.

I know Cheika, a Randwick man through and through, fairly well from being around at Waratahs training and speaking to him a bit. If what he told me was true, and he seems to be a straight shooter (to a fault) then why didn't the club:

(a) put his name forward to Tim Kelahar when he spoke to all the clubs?

(b) put his name forward later when they got the list?

And if you answer that the Tahs didn't do these things, then why would they tell porkies?

The process sounds like one an outfit like the Tahs, who wanted to get the best players in the state involved in their Under 20 team, would do.

Maybe you are implying that the problem was at the Randwick end.

That is different because I don't know them and I didn't speak to them.

It could be simpler. Maybe Oli is one of those young players who miss out for unaccountable reasons in rep teams periodically but there is no actual conspiracy.
.

 

[pstoe]

That's a better post,


etc etc
.

Thank you for the response. Absolutely not pointing a finger at the Tahs. Definitely internal. What sort of an incentive is it for a player to do well in Colts and now in first grade to be put behind someone straight from school. Deegan is a good player but he would get his chance next year or possibly the year after. Oli will not.

 

[Lee Grant]

Ah, now I see where you are coming from.

Anybody—are there any other stories like that from your club?
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>. Absolutely not pointing a finger at the Tahs. Definitely internal. <snip>.

Lots do point the finger at the <insert reps selector/talent scouts> when frequently the reason for non-consideration is actually closer to home. On many occasions the Club, team, or school do not nominate a player for the trial, put a players name in the hat, mention the name to the Scout, or tell the player that the trial is on and encourage them to go.

Unfortunately politics, favouritism, unfair preferential treatment, and outright nepotism are present in many clubs, not just the realm of the Rep Selectors.

When the player or parent complains, it is so much easier for the unpaid intern to blame the external selectors rather than be honest with the player and say either:
1. "we don't think you are good enough for the following reasons : ...<1. ipso facto etc. 2. carpe diem caveat emptor etc. 3. Noli nothis permittere te terere etc but if you work on 1, 2, and 3 then next time we would be happy to support you" ; or
2. "we stuffed up and forgot to include you on the list we put forward"

Best advice in the case you are in a Phibbs/Whittaker/Gregan* situation is to either grin and bear it, or do a Debreczini. Jack D, when he worked out he would be behind Horwitz, Foley, VolaVola and others for rep honours/Pro Contracts in NSW simply looked elsewhere and he landed an EPS slot with the Rebels. Plenty of others have done similar. When the Ponies first started, many of their foundation players were those who were on the wrong side of Sydney Shute Shield Club politics. They performed particularly well for a bunch of "rejects".


*Gregan was Randwick registered No9 and Wobs Captain, playing for the Ponies. Anthems Whitaker was also a Wob and Randwick registered No 9, but first choice for the Tahs. Pat Phibbs was Randwick registered no 9, and played for the ponies as back up to Gregan. The Fourth grade No 9 at the Wicks played more First grade games than the 3 "better" halfbacks associated with the wicks because they were on National or Super 12 duties.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Thank you for the response. Absolutely not pointing a finger at the Tahs. Definitely internal. What sort of an incentive is it for a player to do well in Colts and now in first grade to be put behind someone straight from school. Deegan is a good player but he would get his chance next year or possibly the year after. Oli will not.

I think Nugget Helliwell was in a same situation at the Wicks. Now playing in Wales, with Neath I believe.

 

[pstoe]

He

I think Nugget Helliwell was in a same situation at the Wicks. Now playing in Wales, with Neath I believe.

He is. I spoke with his Dad at the weekend who was watching us trial at Eastwood . Re "Oli", someone needs to ask Nick Ryan not Wade Kelly. He will tell you that this fella is quality that has been overlooked.

 

[Jaghond]

For those interested, some details forwarded to me from a spectator at this afternoon's match....

NSW managed to get up over Tonga 40 - 8, after leading 33-3 at half time.

Playing conditions impacted by heavy rain during the match.

I'm sure / hope that LG will track down some more relevant details to post later on.

Edited with updated info..

And it looks like the Southern States team have defeated Qld 16 - 11

 

[Hugh Jarse]

NSW Teamsheet vs Tonga
1. Orr
2. Fiangaa
3. Robertson
4. Skelton
5. Philip (c)
6. Dempsey
7. Johnson
8. Whitley
9. Pulver
10. Horwitz
11. Clunies-Ross
12. Abrahams
13. Fakai
14. Jones
15. Gallagher

16. Vea
17. O'connor
18. Sandell
19. Hanigan
20. Croke
21. Natoli
22. Deegan
23. Kellaway

Bit wet down in the ACT.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Game Tweet report (courtesy @cdeegan):

Been raining since 12:30 so it will be a greasy ball but the field is in good nick
The brave crowd is very sparse. Full of parents, relatives, officials or tragics from the washed out cricket.
Tonga to kick off!
5-0 Gallagher goes over in the corner from a Robbo bust up the middle and a great cut from Horwitz.
7-0 Horwitz converts from the sideline with light rain falling.
12-0 Harry Jones in the corner from a scrum in centre field. Horwitz misses the conversion.
Nasty clash of heads for two Tongan boys. Both are coming off.
19-0 Gallagher goes over again near the corner after Pulver runs blind from the scrum. Horwitz converts.
Tongans on the blues line looking to open their score.
Big bopper knocks on and gives the ball back. Dempsey down injured (knee?). Sam Croke goes on to replace him
Abrahams makes a great bust off the line to the 22m line. Robbo tags along too!
26-0 great work from the forwards and Pulver sniping then sees another great cut from Horwitz to Clunnies-Ross to cut through and score.
26-3 Tonga decide to take the shot from a penalty in front.
Skelton shakes the place with a big run and is just pulled down. Hanigan on for Phillip. Blues camped in Tonga's quarter.
Sin bin for repeated infringements at the breakdown for Tonga.
Blues take the scrum and get penalised! Six minutes to oranges.
Tonga finally break out of their half with a penalty. Blues should have taken points.
Blues back in Tonga's 22 with penalty.
Blues pushing it too hard and knock on!
26-3 Half time and coach will have words about patience. Excellent crisp start not continued - need to be a little more methodical.

Current temperature "feels like" 10 degrees!!!!
Rain is now getting heavier. Pulver off for Natoli. Vea on for Fanigaa.
Jack Johnson getting through a ton of work!
Turning into a bit of a grind here with Blues infringing a bit - at least in terms of the refs view.

Handling errors creeping in. Jones is freezing out in the wing!
Extended phases but ruined by dropped ball. Conditions are not helping. Still camped in Tongan 22. Credit must go to their defence.
Big changes, all reserves now going on.
33-3 Pushover try, Deegan converts
Kellaway just misses intercept.
Another fumble with the line open!
Sandell cleans up another messy play
40-3 Jones cuts them to pieces up the middle from 50 meters out to feed Kellaway on the outside for a lovely try. Deegan converts.
40-8 full time - Tonga go over to score in the corner - missed the kick.

(Twitterati snout reports they will not be at Wednesdays game).

 

[FTS]

Combined States upset QLD 16-11 , apparently a great game considering the conditions.

 

[Forcefield]

Anyone have team sheets on the last two southern states teams? I'd love to see who is taking the pitch and in which positions.