• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

All Blacks / crusaders 5m scrum tactics

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Both teams employ the same tactic with 5m scrums due to their perceived scrum dominance against the wallabies / reds. If they don't get the dominant hit in a 5m scrum they simply don't take the ball from the scrum (even if it has been cleanly won and the scrum is stable) Eventually as it can't last forever, the scrum will either collapse or a head will pop up. As a result they will either 1. get a penalty as the perceived dominant scrum 2. Get another scrum with another chance of a dominant hit, or 3.wear down the ref and work their way towards a penalty try.
Makes for a predictable pattern. Attacking team doesn't get a dominant hit = collapse and reset. Attacking team gets a dominant hit = try or collapse and penalty.
Negative tactics, fair play or scrum boreathon????
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Too much negativity on the forums these days. Enjoy this:

[video=youtube;AOUXP71o5A4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOUXP71o5A4&feature=related[/video]
 

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
McCaw cops a lot of flack on this forum for pushing the envelope like any good 7, but he'd be among the first on any pub XV I'd select. He'll do what any ref will let him get away with. I have had the good fortune to meet him along with Brad Thorn, and you'd go along way to meet nicer blokes. They spent well over an hour being harried by kids and they responded wonderfully to all of it.
 
P

Peaceman

Guest
He is such a great character. Rugby would be far poorer without him offside, and I don't mean financially.

Sorry, couldn't resist, he's the best player in the world for so long now and if he didn't play rugby he'd probably win a gold medal for New Zealand in Judo. Some of the moves he does to win possession. I'm off to youtube to watch them.
 
B

Balls_SlanderandRuck

Guest
Im not sure about you guys, but i for one am sick of New Zealand, and most of all the Crusaders playing boring, one dimensional rugby like this! :angryfire::mad:
 

Hawko

Geoff Shaw (53)
Both teams employ the same tactic with 5m scrums due to their perceived scrum dominance against the wallabies / reds. If they don't get the dominant hit in a 5m scrum they simply don't take the ball from the scrum (even if it has been cleanly won and the scrum is stable) Eventually as it can't last forever, the scrum will either collapse or a head will pop up. As a result they will either 1. get a penalty as the perceived dominant scrum 2. Get another scrum with another chance of a dominant hit, or 3.wear down the ref and work their way towards a penalty try.
Makes for a predictable pattern. Attacking team doesn't get a dominant hit = collapse and reset. Attacking team gets a dominant hit = try or collapse and penalty.
Negative tactics, fair play or scrum boreathon????

Back to the thread. The Tahs did this vs the Reds earlier this year and while dominance was established they didn't get the scoreboard outcome they wanted. So this supposed tactic doesn't always get results. Furthermore, its drawing a long bow to say that the Saders are a limited, boring or negative team. They are one of the best teams to watch in the comp. Ditto the Blacks. But unless you're a leaguie who thinks scrums are just group hugs, then getting and using scrum dominance is just part of the game and good to watch when done well.
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
Both teams employ the same tactic with 5m scrums due to their perceived scrum dominance against the wallabies / reds. If they don't get the dominant hit in a 5m scrum they simply don't take the ball from the scrum (even if it has been cleanly won and the scrum is stable) Eventually as it can't last forever, the scrum will either collapse or a head will pop up. As a result they will either 1. get a penalty as the perceived dominant scrum 2. Get another scrum with another chance of a dominant hit, or 3.wear down the ref and work their way towards a penalty try.
Makes for a predictable pattern. Attacking team doesn't get a dominant hit = collapse and reset. Attacking team gets a dominant hit = try or collapse and penalty.
Negative tactics, fair play or scrum boreathon????

Philistine, scrums have never been boring

It is an absolutely valid tactic to squash the life out of a weak scrum, scrum the pricks into the ground, get a prop carded, scrum again so they lose a backrower, get a penalty try etc etc

Harden up girlies
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Actually, when I saw the title I thought you were going to talk about how the Cru usually just take the three and jog back. Keeps the scoreboard ticking over and keeps the pace moving.

Of the three times I can remember the Tahs putting the pressure on (two of them this year) they've got the desired effect once (Chiefs) - a game I think they would have won otherwise.

At super level I'm not sure the drawn out pressure route is the smartest option. Different at test level, especially with Nth Hem refs
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Getting even more boring. Focus on your own team for gods sake.

Was not meant to be a negative cheating thread - simply an observation. Perhaps I should have left team names out of it. The tahs do the same thing and look what its done for their viewing audience. At least the ABs and crusaders have many other facets to their game.
The point I was making is that 5m scrums to dominant packs are reset more than any other scrum on the park. If there is a dominant hit the defending side collapse. If their is a neutral hit the attacking team doesnt clear the ball so they get another bite at the cherry (and when the inevitable collapse occurs it will more than likely be another strike against the defending side) 15mins of game time is chewed up with 4-5 resets. A good defensive scrum is awarded with.... another scrum. Only piggies, scrum fanatics, or people with an impresive physique like fatprops avatar are entertained - and that is not a large portion of the viewing demographic.
I would make the same observation if the wallabies had a dominant scrum - use it or lose it. For most viewers scrumming to oblivion is a good excuse for a toilet break.............
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
Was not meant to be a negative cheating thread - simply an observation. Perhaps I should have left team names out of it. The tahs do the same thing and look what its done for their viewing audience. At least the ABs and crusaders have many other facets to their game.
The point I was making is that 5m scrums to dominant packs are reset more than any other scrum on the park. If there is a dominant hit the defending side collapse. If their is a neutral hit the attacking team doesnt clear the ball so they get another bite at the cherry (and when the inevitable collapse occurs it will more than likely be another strike against the defending side) 15mins of game time is chewed up with 4-5 resets. A good defensive scrum is awarded with.... another scrum. Only piggies, scrum fanatics, or people with an impresive physique like fatprops avatar are entertained - and that is not a large portion of the viewing demographic.
I would make the same observation if the wallabies had a dominant scrum - use it or lose it. For most viewers scrumming to oblivion is a good excuse for a toilet break.............

Fair enough if you meant a general comment on scrums. But casting it as a Crusaders / All Blacks topic made it look a little bit like trolling, given some of the discussion over the past several days. And we wouldn't like trolling.
My belief is you would want to make damn sure your scrum was clearly dominant before trying that tactic. Sooner or later your THP or LHP might get it wrong, and collapse, and you'd look a complete bunch of dills walking back 10m to watch them kick it to halfway for a lineout, when it could have been in the hands of Carter / SBW / Fruean / Nonu (for example). What I've noticed often is a bit of a wheel from dominant packs, without going forward, for a fast breaking backrow move having taken two-thirds of the oppo backrow out of the equation.
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Fair enough if you meant a general comment on scrums. But casting it as a Crusaders / All Blacks topic made it look a little bit like trolling, given some of the discussion over the past several days. And we wouldn't like trolling.

Actually it wasnt a general comment on scrums. It was a comment on dominant 5m scrums, of which the ABs and crusaders are recent examples. Cant exactly cite the reds / wallabies, as they grab the ball as fast as they can, usually from a backpedalling,wheeling mess! Whats with the trolling paranoia??
Agreed the wheel is a common tactic, as is the second shove, but the comments I made relate to when those ploys have not worked and the ball is there for the taking. Seems to be left there for another crack...
 
Top