• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Aussie Player Exodus

D

DELETE ACCOUNT

Guest
Never read so much shite

league and union are different games.

if an bloke wants to changeover let him do it on his own accord and then challenge the incumbents in that code.

no more walk up starts because some PR mole thinks it is a good idea
 

PhilClinton

Peter Johnson (47)
Apologies for the long post.

Have heard from a current player, via their manager (so take this with grain of salt) that Japanese League One will be reassesing their player categories after the RWC.

Currently they have:

A which is Japanese players
B international players who are eligible for Japan through residency etc (essentially uncapped internationals)
C foreign internationals

The mostly strictly controlled category is C of which there are to be no more of 3 at a time on the field together, there can be unlimited category B players. There are also not allowed to be more than 10 total B and C players in a squad.

Anyway they are looking at changing the criteria for category B to be international players eligible for Japan AND internationally capped players who haven’t played a test match for their country in 24 months since their signing date. If they were then selected again for their country after the signing date, they would remain a category B player for the duration of that contract and then revert to category C.

Apparently the main reason is they are concerned with the new international selection rules that a player for example like Ben Gunther could be selected for the Cherry Blossoms but then be playing so well that he wants to move back to Australia and has a dream to play for the Wallabies and would this make himself ineligible for playing for Japan until such time he is Wallaby eligible again. So the point of the category B players has weakened in their eyes, therefore they may as well focus on getting better quality players in the teams to help the Japanese born players learn and grow.

The reason they don’t just up the category C quota is because they believe the ‘new’ Cat B players will be less likely needed for internationals thus be around the team more.

TLDR: Japan looking at changing the rules so more foreign capped players can be on the field in League One. They aren’t confident in poaching the young players as easily to play for Japanese national team, so they’d rather focus on getting higher quality players in the team to coach and upskill their homegrown talent.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Apparently the main reason is they are concerned with the new international selection rules that a player for example like Ben Gunther could be selected for the Cherry Blossoms but then be playing so well that he wants to move back to Australia and has a dream to play for the Wallabies and would this make himself ineligible for playing for Japan until such time he is Wallaby eligible again. So the point of the category B players has weakened in their eyes, therefore they may as well focus on getting better quality players in the teams to help the Japanese born players learn and grow.
Good luck with that.

Also sounds like complete bullshit to me. Lifting the limit on foreign capped players makes perfect sense because it is now easier for them to pilfer already capped players. Somehow doubt Japan is worried about another country stealing it's players...
 
Last edited:

Marce

Colin Windon (37)
Never read so much shite

league and union are different games.

if an bloke wants to changeover let him do it on his own accord and then challenge the incumbents in that code.

no more walk up starts because some PR mole thinks it is a good idea
Not too differents. The basic skills are equals, it depends of position too. The tight five positions in Union is a completely different set of skills but a winger is pretty similar in both codes.

You have a lot of examples of top League players doing the switch and earn a spot at high level quick and easily. Lads like Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, Israel Folau or SBW.

In terms of marketing, if Rugby Australia continues designing Indigenous jerseys with no Indigenous players in the squad, then sign an Aboriginal player like Josh Addo-Carr could be a boost for PR. Please, don't mention Kurtley Beale, I like him but he's old, he could be a good mentor for young talent in Tahs but not to play at international level

There are plenty Indigenous players playing at high level in League but not too many in Super Rugby Straya
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Not too differents. The basic skills are equals, it depends of position too. The tight five positions in Union is a completely different set of skills but a winger is pretty similar in both codes.

You have a lot of examples of top League players doing the switch and earn a spot at high level quick and easily. Lads like Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, Israel Folau or SBW.

In terms of marketing, if Rugby Australia continues designing Indigenous jerseys with no Indigenous players in the squad, then sign an Aboriginal player like Josh Addo-Carr could be a boost for PR. Please, don't mention Kurtley Beale, I like him but he's old, he could be a good mentor for young talent in Tahs but not to play at international level

There are plenty Indigenous players playing at high level in League but not too many in Super Rugby Straya
You named basically the only 5 players to do it successfully. Throw in Brad.
 

Marce

Colin Windon (37)
You named basically the only 5 players to do it successfully. Throw in Brad.
Berrick Barnes, Karmichael Hunt, Ben Barba, Cooper Vuna, Joe Tomane, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Jason Robinson, Chris Ashton, Andy Farrell. Not to mention that some of them couldn't make first grade like Naiyaravoro or couldn't earn a spot like Tomane or even Izaia Perese
 
  • Like
Reactions: TSR

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Berrick Barnes, Karmichael Hunt, Ben Barba, Cooper Vuna, Joe Tomane, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Jason Robinson, Chris Ashton, Andy Farrell. Not to mention that some of them couldn't make first grade like Naiyaravoro or couldn't earn a spot like Tomane or even Izaia Perese
Man you are really stretching it with some of these names.

Didn't think of the northern hemisphere lads, I'll give you that.
 
D

DELETE ACCOUNT

Guest
Not too differents. The basic skills are equals, it depends of position too. The tight five positions in Union is a completely different set of skills but a winger is pretty similar in both codes.

You have a lot of examples of top League players doing the switch and earn a spot at high level quick and easily. Lads like Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers, Lote Tuqiri, Israel Folau or SBW.

In terms of marketing, if Rugby Australia continues designing Indigenous jerseys with no Indigenous players in the squad, then sign an Aboriginal player like Josh Addo-Carr could be a boost for PR. Please, don't mention Kurtley Beale, I like him but he's old, he could be a good mentor for young talent in Tahs but not to play at international level

There are plenty Indigenous players playing at high level in League but not too many in Super Rugby Straya
Plenty of indigenous players in Shute Shield and QPR but havent made the step up / been selected as yet for higher honours.

The point of my post was that no one should get a wal up start because they have some sort of history ie Rugby League or indigenous or father was a wallaby. IMHO the wallaby jersey should be earnt with a bit of effort, blood, sweat and tears in the lower levels.
 

PhilClinton

Peter Johnson (47)
Good luck with that.

Also sounds like complete bullshit to me. Lifting the limit on foreign capped players makes perfect sense because it is now easier for them to pilfer already capped players. Somehow doubt Japan is worried about another country stealing it's players...

Yep I agree it doesn’t make much sense.

For context, the player is a current Reds player who falls into Category B for League One. I think his manager is trying to push the overseas deal on him right now by incinuating he may not get as much if he tries to make the move down the track, as there will be other more ‘valued’ players in the teams.
 

TSR

Mark Loane (55)
Man you are really stretching it with some of these names.

Didn't think of the northern hemisphere lads, I'll give you that.
Which ones are a stretch? Ben Barba is maybe questionable in the list, but he did play top 14. Who else?

Plenty of people cross over successfully. I don’t understand why it upsets people so much.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Which ones are a stretch? Ben Barba is maybe questionable in the list, but he did play top 14. Who else?

Plenty of people cross over successfully. I don’t understand why it upsets people so much.
I guess I just how successful some of those switches are/were. But ye perhaps being a bit contrarian.
 
D

DELETE ACCOUNT

Guest
Which ones are a stretch? Ben Barba is maybe questionable in the list, but he did play top 14. Who else?

Plenty of people cross over successfully. I don’t understand why it upsets people so much.
switching over doesnt upset me.
It is how it is done that does .
When players are given walk up starts because player agents demand it in contracts, it is wrong and contemptuous of all the players working hard in the code both on and off the field.

My simple request is, if a player wants to swap codes then start at the bottom (clubland) and work the way up. Can even be fast tracked if they perform.

Would loved to have seen a Wendall Sailor (or any named above) play 6 - 10 games of Shute Shield or QPR before getting a Reds / Waratahs gig then Wallaby jersey.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
My simple request is, if a player wants to swap codes then start at the bottom (clubland) and work the way up. Can even be fast tracked if they perform.

Would loved to have seen a Wendall Sailor (or any named above) play 6 - 10 games of Shute Shield or QPR before getting a Reds / Waratahs gig then Wallaby jersey.

That's not a reality though.

They're recruited and paid lots of money to play. It's not in anyone's interests for them to spend the first part of that contract playing club rugby.
 

Kevinsons

Frank Nicholson (4)
Which ones are a stretch? Ben Barba is maybe questionable in the list, but he did play top 14. Who else?

Plenty of people cross over successfully. I don’t understand why it upsets people so much.
Berrick Barnes, Karmichael Hunt, Ben Barba, Cooper Vuna, Joe Tomane, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Jason Robinson, Chris Ashton, Andy Farrell. Not to mention that some of them couldn't make first grade like Naiyaravoro or couldn't earn a spot like Tomane or even Izaia Perese
Semi R, RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck), Denny Solomona, even Clinton Schifcofske and Mark Mclinden contributed well to the reds super rugby seasons when they were there I thought. Curtis Rona is doing well at London Irish.
 

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
switching over doesnt upset me.
It is how it is done that does .
When players are given walk up starts because player agents demand it in contracts, it is wrong and contemptuous of all the players working hard in the code both on and off the field.

My simple request is, if a player wants to swap codes then start at the bottom (clubland) and work the way up. Can even be fast tracked if they perform.

Would loved to have seen a Wendall Sailor (or any named above) play 6 - 10 games of Shute Shield or QPR before getting a Reds / Waratahs gig then Wallaby jersey.
A lot of the names mentioned above have played 3- 5 years of schoolboy rugby. Its not like they are transitioning from NFL to Rugby. A fair % know the rules and have played already, and all are talented professional players (by default due to league) skilled in tackling, and running the ball - key attributes of rugby backs. It's not like rugby is recruiting hookers from league to play 7 with no experience.
 

Rebel man

Bob Davidson (42)
So many of the player who cross over have played union as kids showed great talent there and then taken a league contract
 

Drew

Colin Windon (37)
Sam Burgess?
Jokes. He falls into the category of having it handed to him on a platter without earning it. Like England are strong, it’s not like Craig Gower playing for Italy. More like Same as Hayne with the Fijian 7s.
 

TSR

Mark Loane (55)
switching over doesnt upset me.
It is how it is done that does .
When players are given walk up starts because player agents demand it in contracts, it is wrong and contemptuous of all the players working hard in the code both on and off the field.

My simple request is, if a player wants to swap codes then start at the bottom (clubland) and work the way up. Can even be fast tracked if they perform.

Would loved to have seen a Wendall Sailor (or any named above) play 6 - 10 games of Shute Shield or QPR before getting a Reds / Waratahs gig then Wallaby jersey.
That’s just not realistic.

What you’re not acknowledging is what Wendell, and the others, had/have already accomplished when they are contracted.

Some of these guys prove to be good boys, some don’t but that is no different to the risk of contracting one young player at the expense of another or importing a foreign star.

Contracting is an imperfect science - but no player worth their salt hasn’t done the hard yards somewhere along the way.
 
Top