Australian Rugby / RA

[Rugby follower]

I could run AFL. No international body complicating rules and no other nations to worry about having to factor in.
Just a domestic focus and the ability to manipulate any part to serve its on purpose. Rules. Game time. Team locations. Etc.

they are clearly killing it but the comparison to to rugby in Australia is like comparing apples and orange colour motor vehicles.

@RugbyReg one area we could replicate is their development through the grassroots, they are amazing at that. Yes we don’t have the money to throw at development officers but we need to be so much better. The local primary schools in Brisbane 10-15 years ago had Ozkick everywhere and it was a great success. We need development officers hitting our schools and junior rugby clubs closely followed by our paid professionals in that state. Not once a year but every month, RA simply does not invest into grassroots rugby and the lack of skills coming thru our u15’s, 16’s , 19’s is as clear as day. It will be a hard slow burn but RA needs to act rather than the cheap talk it always does. I honestly don’t think Phil Waugh is any different, he talks about grassroots with no plan. I see zero leadership from him atm.

 

[Slayer!]

Can't speak for the Tahs, but you're off the mark with the Reds comment. Crowds were strong (incl. a sold out GF and very-close-to-it Semi), media coverage was high, and general buzz around the city was very positive during 2011 and the couple of years following:

Those membership numbers for the Reds post 2011 are rubbish. Jim Carmichael was calling anyone who could pick a Gilbert out of a lineup a "member".
Same nonsense the Lions and Broncos go on with on their "member" numbers.
Think they're much more honest these days.

 

[wamberal99]

Shute Shield won't back anything that isn't Shute Shield.

Its unbelievable how inflated people involved with those clubs think their importance is.

]

How many of these people do you know? I know a few. I suppose I am one myself, I have followed and supported Eastwood through thick and thin for many years. I cannot speak for people I do not know, but I can assure you that the people I do know do not think they are "important". They just think they are Eastwood supporters.

Incidentally I supported the Central Coast team in the ARC, attended all the home games (along with a couple of hundred or so other spectators).

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, mate.

 

[Slayer!]

@RugbyReg one area we could replicate is their development through the grassroots, they are amazing at that. Yes we don’t have the money to throw at development officers but we need to be so much better. The local primary schools in Brisbane 10-15 years ago had Ozkick everywhere and it was a great success. We need development officers hitting our schools and junior rugby clubs closely followed by our paid professionals in that state. Not once a year but every month, Rugby Australia simply does not invest into grassroots rugby and the lack of skills coming thru our u15’s, 16’s , 19’s is as clear as day. It will be a hard slow burn but Rugby Australia needs to act rather than the cheap talk it always does. I honestly don’t think Phil Waugh is any different, he talks about grassroots with no plan. I see zero leadership from him atm.

Just where do you think this magic "grassroots investment" money is coming from? Sheesh. Everyone's got a solution but no-one stops to consider how much it costs.
Tahs are broke, Brumbies are on life support, Rebels are doing Rebels stuff on the RA tit...
RA needs to be a bit more cost-centric (We could probably afford another dozen or so development officers from Hamish's RWC hotel bill), but the game is just squeaking through on funds. So who's going to pay for hading out balls in schools? Or flying Randwick to Crosby Park to play Brothers...
As a game we're better off focusing on what we've currently got and making it better (and longer - Super Rugby should be a full home and away season, or at least all AU sides playing each other twice), which will mean more games, which means more TV money.
NRL - 204 games a season - and AFL - 207 (not including finals). Super Rugby has 168. So there's an opportunity for about a 25% uplift in media rights...

 

[Joe King]

Part of the reason we have no crowds at Super games is because on a Saturday, rugby people would prefer to be on the lash at their clubhouse then go watch a dross uncompetitive product. Who are these vast vast majorities of people you know who attend Super Rugby in the first place?

Fix that, and you fix the problem

 

[Derpus]

]

How many of these people do you know? I know a few. I suppose I am one myself, I have followed and supported Eastwood through thick and thin for many years. I cannot speak for people I do not know, but I can assure you that the people I do know do not think they are "important". They just think they are Eastwood supporters.

Incidentally I supported the Central Coast team in the ARC, attended all the home games (along with a couple of hundred or so other spectators).

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time, mate.

I didn't mean to say that they thought of themselves as important. I meant the club.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

Look don't make me out to be on of those shute shield people. I just think that the current domestic format is not working at all.
We can't fix it with just creating teams out of the blue with no history behind them. So where does that leave us with? The Premier Grade clubs.

 

[Rugby follower]

Just where do you think this magic "grassroots investment" money is coming from? Sheesh. Everyone's got a solution but no-one stops to consider how much it costs.
Tahs are broke, Brumbies are on life support, Rebels are doing Rebels stuff on the Rugby Australia tit...
Rugby Australia needs to be a bit more cost-centric (We could probably afford another dozen or so development officers from Hamish's RWC hotel bill), but the game is just squeaking through on funds. So who's going to pay for hading out balls in schools? Or flying Randwick to Crosby Park to play Brothers...
As a game we're better off focusing on what we've currently got and making it better (and longer - Super Rugby should be a full home and away season, or at least all AU sides playing each other twice), which will mean more games, which means more TV money.
NRL - 204 games a season - and AFL - 207 (not including finals). Super Rugby has 168. So there's an opportunity for about a 25% uplift in media rights...

And we continue the shit show we are in. Trim up head office, cut head office wages, forget the nrl stars. The solution it’s really not that hard, the action’s however are. You just need hard nosed business operators . Heaps of companies go thru this all the time. It’s going to be a hard 5 year cycle but until you fix your grassroots you will never get better. Until we realise we are not relevant we won’t get better that is how far we have fallen.

 

[Joe King]

Instead of snide comments give us valid alternatives to super rugby then? Or do you think super rugby in current form is working?

Another option is to make Super Rugby work.

 

[Joe King]

Not to mention a clear appetite for finals footy demonstrated as recently as 2021's Super AU final. There's a lot of work to be done around competition structures and product at super level, but to suggest there is no connection, tribalism or support for those sides is demonstrably untrue.

Got to say, watching Super Rugby AU in 2021 I just felt relaxed and enjoyed every round. Even before the big final I was loving it. I didn’t care if my team lost because it was still building rugby somewhere in Australia. When 3 Australian teams lose in SRP (Super Rugby Pacific), it’s so depressing.

Towards the end I wrote a thousand articles on why we needed to keep it.

Thing is, I loved Super Rugby Aotearoa as well. I couldn’t believe so many Kiwis fans didn’t want to keep it.

 

[hoggy]

Another option is to make Super Rugby work.

That's a good idea, because the last 37 variants haven't quite worked have they.

 

[hoggy]

I'm not arguing about it based on my own feelings. I'm saying that largely, all these things have been discussed ad nauseum over the last decade or more that the forum has been in existence. There's 816 pages in this thread for example.

Is club rugby in a strong position? It largely survives on the back of getting free labour from its players. The best players it has available are getting paid by another employer (a Super Rugby team) to play in the competition.

The biggest question is how much can you improve the quality of those teams with only a fairly modest salary expenditure. What is the budget required to get it to the necessary level?

I would argue we have been arguing these the last how many pages what 2000 under different headings, why is that, well maybe because RA kick the issue down the road every bloody year, due to self interest. ????

Without dealing with the underlying fundamental issue of lack of domestic growth. F____K Super Rugby version 487.

Constantly making excuses why we cannot do anything is exactly why we are in the current pile of shit we are in.

 

[Joe King]

That's a good idea, because the last 37 variants haven't quite worked have they.

Ha! Touché!

If the Australian teams were as competitive as the NZ teams, people would tune in a lot more. It may not make it the ideal comp, but it would be a lot better.

I think we underestimate how much of an advantage the NPC gives the NZ teams.

I’ve already outlined what I think would be the best 3rd tier model to give the biggest immediate impact on our Super teams in another thread so I won’t repeat it here.

But I don’t want to simply match the NZ teams. I want us to aim to beat them at their own game (and I say that with all due respect).

 

[The Red Baron]

Well, considering all the recent chat in the thread, I suggest we kick the Waratahs out of Super Rugby and they can devolve to the Shute Shield. Then there would be enough space in the draw for the remaining Aussie teams to comfortably play each other twice.

It's the only way.

 

[hoggy]

Ha! Touché!

If the Australian teams were as competitive as the NZ teams, people would tune in a lot more. It may not make it the ideal comp, but it would be a lot better.

I think we underestimate how much of an advantage the NPC gives the NZ teams.

I’ve already outlined what I think would be the best 3rd tier model to give the biggest immediate impact on our Super teams in another thread so I won’t repeat it here.

But I don’t want to simply match the NZ teams. I want us to aim to beat them at their own game (and I say that with all due respect).

Well of course it would be fantastic if we were competitive with NZ. Experts have been telling that us for 20 years. Its that simple we just have to get our act together and start beating the Kiwi teams, and everyone will start following rugby, ffs.

 

[hoggy]

Well, considering all the recent chat in the thread, I suggest we kick the Waratahs out of Super Rugby and they can devolve to the Shute Shield. Then there would be enough space in the draw for the remaining Aussie teams to comfortably play each other twice.

It's the only way.

Or we can keep Super Rugby and hope all those $billions of dollars of international broadcasting money flow in.

"When does the game start honey"

 

[The Red Baron]

Yep, we get it. You don't like super rugby. What's the alternative for now?

 

[hoggy]

Yep, we get it. You don't like super rugby. What's the alternative for now?

Of course there is no alternative, lets just keep doing the same shit every year.

Don't worry we can borrow another $60 million to get through the next few years, and look Hamish is in Paris signing up for the next wonder fix.

Anyone for Lobster, I'll have two thankyou. A bit of moisture in the carpet. Nah.

 

[noscrumnolife]

I would argue we have been arguing these the last how many pages what 2000 under different headings, why is that, well maybe because Rugby Australia kick the issue down the road every bloody year, due to self interest. ????

Without dealing with the underlying fundamental issue of lack of domestic growth. F____K Super Rugby version 487.

Constantly making excuses why we cannot do anything is exactly why we are in the current pile of shit we are in.

It's the definition of insanity Hoggy. Change a thing here, cut a cost there, run an extra thirty games along the way and we will be back to where we need to be. Super Rugby is at odds with our history (premier club based competition & a representative provincial game, not a developmental one) and our geography (concentrated in Sydney and Brisbane). We allocate 60% of our resources at Super Level to the ACT and two states where Rugby Union barely registers. That is not common sense. It is farcical. No rational business operator would ever suggest that is the model that most suits our characteristics.

 

[jason08]

Rugby not doing too bad when compared to league when you consider one has 5 pro teams and the other 16 pro teams.