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Australian Rugby / Rugby Australia

stillmissit

Bill McLean (32)
The goal should be to become number 1 though. Ireland have won 12 straight tests with a 9 and 12 NZ didn't want and a winger Australia didn't want

We talk as if we are some tier 2 nation or something. Realistic or not, the Wallabies need to have grand aspirations
Agree and not sure that we can do that under Rennie.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Are you saying he has not accomplished anything? Name another coach in Australia who could have done what he has done?
The same thing was said about McQueen. It's a conservative thing about not doing anything until someone does it.
It is only fantasy if it comes from nowhere, Coleman has been at this for years and succeeded better than anyone else I have heard of.

What has he done exactly?

I think Coleman has a lot of promise, and his career is building very nicely…

But so far he has less senior coaching success than McKellar and Thorn.
 

rodha

Tom Lawton (22)
His work in Japan over the last few years is obviously a good starting point…

He achieved two big upset results (Ireland, Scotland pool matches) at a home World Cup after years of planning & targeting only those 2 matches... aside from that Japan has been consistently worse than they were under Jones, they've been regularly shipping 40+ against most other Tier 1 sides. Jamie Joseph was also very inconsistent with the Highlanders, they came 13th, 11th, 9th & 12th, without Tony Brown as assistant coach. In NZ, Robertson is definitely considered more highly than Joseph & Rennie.
 
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PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
His work in Japan over the last few years is obviously a good starting point…

Not trying to discredit that work - but I don't think the 'he's made Japan decent' argument holds much weight when you compare Japanese rugby program and Australian rugby.

They are very different beasts. The bar for Joseph in Japan is much lower than what is expected of the Wallabies, and he inherited a program that had already started its evolution into a decent setup due to Jones.

He definitely could thrive with the Wallabies, but people need to stop putting him well ahead of the other candidates because of his work with Japan.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Jones certainly kicked things off, but aside from the major upset that was beating the Boks, which is a major achievement, there’s not much else to speak of…

Japan beating both Ireland and Scotland at a RWC and topping their pool is an envious result, and they’ve also notched up some close losses in the past year to major tier 1 nations including NZ and France most recently.

Obviously the bar is lower because it’s Japan, but it’s not only impressive what Joseph has achieved with them, but the style of attacking play he’s instilled in both them but the Sunwolves in their short stint.

I don’t know about Joseph being above any other candidates, but he’s got a lot of good credentials.
 

rodha

Tom Lawton (22)
Jones certainly kicked things off, but aside from the major upset that was beating the Boks, which is a major achievement, there’s not much else to speak of…

Japan beating both Ireland and Scotland at a RWC and topping their pool is an envious result, and they’ve also notched up some close losses in the past year to major tier 1 nations including NZ and France most recently.

Obviously the bar is lower because it’s Japan, but it’s not only impressive what Joseph has achieved with them, but the style of attacking play he’s instilled in both them but the Sunwolves in their short stint.

I don’t know about Joseph being above any other candidates, but he’s got a lot of good credentials.
It's more the inconsistency of results than anything else. 2013 was rock bottom for the Highlanders, although he obviously learned from it and made big changes. During his Lion's tenure, Wellington lost 2 finals & a Semi-Final with an exceptionally strong roster.

With Japan, he's shown he can do well at a home World Cup with 9 months of preparation with the players in camp (note - that no other country had this advantage due to Japan's Top League season finishing in January 2019 that year), but he's had some pretty atrocious results outside them - getting annihilated by some T1 teams, almost losing to Portugal, etc. He really seems to target specific games rather than being consistent throughout.

As Gatland said, there's "only one" standout coach in NZ rugby & it's Razor. Rugby Australia ought to throw the money at him.

 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
The Robertson v Joseph experience argument is quite slanted as well, but it is hard to compare apples with apples in these situations.

Joseph had already been coaching professional sides for 4 years before Robertson even retired from playing.
 

stillmissit

Bill McLean (32)
What has he done exactly?

I think Coleman has a lot of promise, and his career is building very nicely…

But so far he has less senior coaching success than McKellar and Thorn.
By this calculation, he'll be good to go when you are old and I am dead....
The same thing goes for players with the ability to lift and our inability to recognise it.
 

Dctarget

Michael Lynagh (62)
There's no obvious replacement. I lean towards Joseph because he's had international experience, I'm sick of us being testing grounds for provincial coaches, let them cut their teeth elsewhere then they can come coach us.

But then again coaching Japan is a bit of a free ride, no one remembers your white washes because that's expected but we do remember your close losses or wins. Not sure if Japan has done any better than Aus has under Rennie.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
By this calculation, he'll be good to go when you are old and I am dead....
The same thing goes for players with the ability to lift and our inability to recognise it.

No, he’ll be good to go when he has the required experience/results required of any potential test coaching candidate…
 

rodha

Tom Lawton (22)
There's no obvious replacement. I lean towards Joseph because he's had international experience, I'm sick of us being testing grounds for provincial coaches, let them cut their teeth elsewhere then they can come coach us.

But then again coaching Japan is a bit of a free ride, no one remembers your white washes because that's expected but we do remember your close losses or wins. Not sure if Japan has done any better than Aus has under Rennie.
World Cup winning coaches McQueen, Woodward, White, & Erasmus, didn't have prior international experience.
 

stillmissit

Bill McLean (32)
I'm not suggesting it is, nor should be - I'm saying that removing a popular leader from any team/organisation can have a negative influence, which is at odds with the impact of a new coach @stillmissit suggested
LeCheese: Understand the argument but I've never seen it in Australian rugby. Ewen was well liked but Cheika lifted them in his first year. Just looked over all the coaches back to 74 and I only remember Bob Templeton onwards, the only coach I don't remember lifting them was Greg Smith although he had a brain disease and died a few years later. He had a 63% win rate.
 

stillmissit

Bill McLean (32)
It's more the inconsistency of results than anything else. 2013 was rock bottom for the Highlanders, although he obviously learned from it and made big changes. During his Lion's tenure, Wellington lost 2 finals & a Semi-Final with an exceptionally strong roster.

With Japan, he's shown he can do well at a home World Cup with 9 months of preparation with the players in camp (note - that no other country had this advantage due to Japan's Top League season finishing in January 2019 that year), but he's had some pretty atrocious results outside them - getting annihilated by some T1 teams, almost losing to Portugal, etc. He really seems to target specific games rather than being consistent throughout.

As Gatland said, there's "only one" standout coach in NZ rugby & it's Razor. Rugby Australia ought to throw the money at him.

Rodha: excellent research again.
So Gatland can be ignored as a reference for Robertson (sarc)? This post and your other one referring to WC-winning coaches, makes me wonder if being a national coach makes you too predictable and risk averse with both planning and player identification.

To be successful in a win-lose environment you need to be focused on the battles and ignore, or better, have no regard for the downside.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Are you saying he has not accomplished anything? Name another coach in Australia who could have done what he has done?
The same thing was said about McQueen. It's a conservative thing about not doing anything until someone does it.
It is only fantasy if it comes from nowhere, Coleman has been at this for years and succeeded better than anyone else I have heard of.

what has he done? Genuinely curious. Gordon Shute Shield Premiership and LA Giltinis?
 
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