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Australian Rugby / Rugby Australia

The Ghost of Raelene

Phil Hardcastle (33)
what has he done? Genuinely curious. Gordon Shute Shield Premiership and LA Giltinis?
Gordon Shute Shield, Warringah Shute Shield, LA MLR. Could say his most impressive effort is getting Penrith Emus to 6 wins in a season after not winning a game for 3 years.


Pretty good article about him.
 
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Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Even if Coleman is your guy, are you really willing to spend an extra $1m the organisation really can't afford to bring him in a year earlier than you otherwise could?

Would it dramatically change your expectations for 2023 and/or would it derail the Waratahs who are becoming a bright spot for Australian rugby and are a big reason to hope for a turnaround in fortunes for the Wallabies.

It is 100% certain that if you want to appoint Coleman as Wallabies coach in 2024 he will be available for the role.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Are you saying he has not accomplished anything? Name another coach in Australia who could have done what he has done?
The same thing was said about McQueen. It's a conservative thing about not doing anything until someone does it.
It is only fantasy if it comes from nowhere, Coleman has been at this for years and succeeded better than anyone else I have heard of.

Let's see:
Jake White turned the Brumbies around.
McKenzie did so at the Reds.
Cheika did so at the Tahs.

There is nothing new about DC's accomplishments. I like him, but let him have a crack with the Tahs again this year.
 

John S

Nev Cottrell (35)
Even if Coleman is your guy, are you really willing to spend an extra $1m the organisation really can't afford to bring him in a year earlier than you otherwise could?

Would it dramatically change your expectations for 2023 and/or would it derail the Waratahs who are becoming a bright spot for Australian rugby and are a big reason to hope for a turnaround in fortunes for the Wallabies.

I think the bit in bold is the key there - I think if you took DC away now (or any time in the next 12 - 18 months) I think you'd be taking key momentum away from the Tahs, and they'd be back at square -1
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
He achieved two big upset results (Ireland, Scotland pool matches) at a home World Cup after years of planning & targeting only those 2 matches... aside from that Japan has been consistently worse than they were under Jones, they've been regularly shipping 40+ against most other Tier 1 sides. Jamie Joseph was also very inconsistent with the Highlanders, they came 13th, 11th, 9th & 12th, without Tony Brown as assistant coach. In NZ, Robertson is definitely considered more highly than Joseph & Rennie.

Very interesting facts, think you just convinced me Razor should be number 1 candidate.

Although, having international experience (whether successful or not) is still an advantage, he can learn from his mistakes. Think how much Eddie has improved since his wallabies stint.
 

dru

John Eales (66)
Interesting conversation here. I wonder if Rennie would think the chatter disappointing? If so I’d suggest if it fits (it does), wear it!

I can’t forgive Italy and I see the “honorable losses” as evidence that our cattle are adequate, if not ideal. Rennie for me receives a ‘get out of jail’ card on a combination of injuries and those close losses. Not because of the costs in an immediate change.

Rugby Australia do need to take action though. The conditioning and injury review can’t come quickly enough. Selection policy and squad rotation policy needs a new person with authority, not to argue with Rennie but to install safety guards against another Italy.

Sorry SMI but I think DC is not in the discussion. Any more than Thorn. And for that matter fans suggesting excitement for Razor, well many of us thought the same about Rennie in the first place.

chalk me up as a (reluctant) supporter for Rennie. I don’t agree he has done nothing, albeit he is scraping through on a conceded pass in terms of wins.
 

stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
Interesting conversation here. I wonder if Rennie would think the chatter disappointing? If so I’d suggest if it fits (it does), wear it!

I can’t forgive Italy and I see the “honorable losses” as evidence that our cattle are adequate, if not ideal. Rennie for me receives a ‘get out of jail’ card on a combination of injuries and those close losses. Not because of the costs in an immediate change.

Rugby Australia do need to take action though. The conditioning and injury review can’t come quickly enough. Selection policy and squad rotation policy needs a new person with authority, not to argue with Rennie but to install safety guards against another Italy.

Sorry SMI but I think DC is not in the discussion. Any more than Thorn. And for that matter fans suggesting excitement for Razor, well many of us thought the same about Rennie in the first place.

chalk me up as a (reluctant) supporter for Rennie. I don’t agree he has done nothing, albeit he is scraping through on a conceded pass in terms of wins.
I don't disagree with your post Dru as the money is a big factor.
McKellar is the one who may well miss out after being - to misquote braveheart - the red-hot favourite. I suspect, contrary to DC, he is not even in the conversation and I suspect a chat like this is going on in ARU HQ.
The simple, but I don't think best thing is to keep Rennie on to the RWC but suggest he has to bring these players up from near misses to hits. I think DC will be in the conversation but not till after the RWC. I don't think Robertson will be an option at that point, he will already be taken by NZ or someone else. Timing is everything with these things and if the war chest didn't look like an old womans button bag we might have been able to do something.
The whole landscape will have changed after the RWC and we will have to see what is happening then. It is still a fascinating discussion. A win by Wales would have changed this whole conversation.
 
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stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
Just another piece of information which surprised me. Robertson is 48 years old! How many of you would like to be questioned about not being qualified for the next step up at 48?
How many years do you have to do this to become competent to run a national rugby team, it ain't rocket surgery...
 

Adam84

Steve Williams (59)
Just another piece of information which surprised me. Robertson is 48 years old! How many of you would like to be questioned about not being qualified for the next step up at 48?
How many years do you have to do this to become competent to run a national rugby team, it ain't rocket surgery...
Who are you talking to here?
 

stillmissit

Vay Wilson (31)
Who are you talking to here?
Anyone who has a career and thinks they are capable of stepping up, I guess you knew that. There also seem to be a few here who think a guy at 48 who has been a coach for a fair few years needs to become a national coach to become one!
Competence and talent are in short supply, always have been and always will be. Anyone who has those skills should not have to wait until they are half a century old to put those skills into place.
How long is the apprenticeship to become a national coach?
 
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Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Anyone who has a career and thinks they are capable of stepping up, I guess you knew that. There also seem to be a few here who think a guy at 48 who has been a coach for a fair few years needs to become a national coach to become one!
Competence and talent are in short supply, always have been and always will be. Anyone who has those skills should not have to wait until they are half a century old to put those skills into place.
How long is the apprenticeship to become a national coach?

I don't think anyone is debating that. Everyone is simply arguing who is the BEST candidate.

As it stands, Robertson is not proven on the international stage.

Just like a manager at age 48 is not a proven CEO until he actually becomes a CEO and succeeds. I don't think anyone is debating that Robertson doesn't deserve his promotion. He absolutely does.

But he is not the only option. Do you hire a experienced CEO with a decent track record (Schmidt, Joseph), or the hot shot upcoming manager looking for a promotion (Razor)?

There is no doubt Robinson is a great option for national coach but do you think Razor is the BEST candidate available?
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
In regards to Robertson, it’s not necessarily that he doesn’t have any international
experience… but rather, he doesn’t really have any experience outside of Christchurch and that deserves to be scrutinised.

And that doesn’t mean he’s not potentially qualified for the position, but in doing due diligence there would be concerns about his lack of experience outside of a single location, where some of that success has benefited from an organisation well known for being a star player factory… and the history of previously hiring someone just as successful from the same gig who turned out to have issues when removed from said bubble.

He’s obviously a very good coach, but I think it’s wise to question whether his success with the ‘Saders would immediately translate to another team.
 
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rodha

Charlie Fox (21)
Very interesting facts, think you just convinced me Razor should be number 1 candidate.

Although, having international experience (whether successful or not) is still an advantage, he can learn from his mistakes. Think how much Eddie has improved since his wallabies stint.

Crusaders didn't win a title for a decade with their most talented & laden with international (Samoa, Fiji incl.) squads ever.

Almost all of these players left, Razor and a bunch of kids in their early 20's came in, and they won a title every year since.

That's just the Crusaders. When you look at what happened to Canterbury after Razor left, the team has been underwhelming. Very inconsistent. A constant rotation of coaches coming in and out, and the province's winning-rate (previously 82% under Razor between 2013-2016) has dropped to 69% across the following six seasons since he departed.

People rightly focus on his Canterbury & Crusaders records, but he also turned Sumner from a mediocre club into Champions.

He inherited a Sumner outfit that was rock bottom of the Chch 2nd Division. Within one year he had transformed them from cellar-dwellers to Division champs. And the following seasons he coached them all the way to the top of Div 1.

He also claimed the 2015 U20's World Championship in his maiden year with the NZ U20's (and this was amidst a four season drought of NZ having not won it since 2011)... so I'd wager that his overall coaching record is more impressive & consistent than many people on here realize:

 
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