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Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2013

Ted S

Sydney Middleton (9)
Speculating on contracts in RL is walking on rocky ground. There are often figures quoted and thrown out there, most of which are completely wrong no matter where they are published or quoted from.
There are sponsorship deals and every (I mean every) club has outside payments to players in either product or cash.

On the U20s RL, its the most ridiculous competition in any sport I know of and it needs to be abolished as soon as possible. It breeds arrogant players (I cant say footballers) who have no concept of defense. Many have the attitude of having "made it" once playing U20s.

To follow this model in RU would be counter productive, there are many more things that need to be done before stepping into this quagmire.

I would like to know how 5 super rugby teams gives a young player more prospects than 18 NRL sides (plus the many other professional compeititions).

I agree with someone that mentioned RU gives more opportunities in other ways. I know of one kid that turned his back on an U20s deal to play RU because he saw an opportunity to travel the world.

The single most important thing to remember is that its about 0.01% of all kids that play RL or RU get to play it professionally at the top level.
Yet we spend a hell of a lot of time worrying about them instead of the other 99% that support the game.
 

guru13

Frank Nicholson (4)
Do these players that aren't selected in the schools teams or even the ones that haven't made there state side, still have chance to make it in the game?
What pathways are available ?
 

Ted S

Sydney Middleton (9)
La Jarse is sometimes (rather cruelly I might add and never by me) compared to a Rottweiller. What is it about Rugby Mums and European dogs? Never a Shih Tzu, Labrador, Corgi. Always Rottweiller, Weimaraner, Alsation or Cane Corso.

You have it all wrong HJ, La Jarse is a fine breed, cultured and with the patience of one of the more refined breeds.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
I agree that the situation you describe doesn't sound fair at all. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens this year.

Not many of the IIs players that year (2006) were ever going to picked for Oz Schools. You can have half a team of strong players and still lose because of the other half; but you can make a strong team with the strongest from two teams.

We even spoke up this at the ground at the time.

There was no way that Kurtley Beale, Peter Betham, Quade Cooper, Rod Davies, Rob Horne, Dan Palmer, Paddy Ryan, Rob Simmons and Ben Tapuai were going to be overlooked for 2006 Oz Schools because their Ones' teams didn't play in the final.

Some of those Twos players who returned to school in the following year and played in the Ones, did well when they left school but not many of the others did - only Jesse Mogg and Alfie Mafi.

Basically they were either young, or lesser players as individuals, but they had a great talent for playing together.

The thing is: those Qld and NSW II teams that year clicked early on and the Ones' teams didn't.

Watch the NSW IIs team tomorrow: they'll give it a shake for the same reason.
.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Do these players that aren't selected in the schools teams or even the ones that haven't made there state side, still have chance to make it in the game?
What pathways are available ?

Yes.
Absolutely.
Cam Crawford never made it hgiher than GPS IIs and thats just off the top of my head.
I have been unable to find Ashely-Cooper in any state side.
As I've said elsewhere - if you look at this list http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?id=174487
You realise that not many Oz Schoolboys play for the Wallabies.
There's plenty of time.
 

prideandpassion

Stan Wickham (3)
has anyone been watching beau Donovan for ACT play ? Easily the est player in the local comp down here. Any chance of schoolboys for him ?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I would like to know how 5 super rugby teams gives a young player more prospects than 18 NRL sides (plus the many other professional compeititions).

I agree with someone that mentioned RU gives more opportunities in other ways. I know of one kid that turned his back on an U20s deal to play RU because he saw an opportunity to travel the world.
Because there are many, many more RL players vying for spots in 18 teams, than there are RU players vying for spots in our 5 teams. The base of our pyramid is quite small in comparison to RL. If we had the same number of juniors as RL, there would obviously be more opportunity to make one of the 18 teams than the 5.

The NRL is the only full-time professional RL competition in Australia, just as super rugby is the only full-time professional RU competition.
 

George Smith

Ted Thorn (20)
has anyone been watching beau Donovan for ACT play ? Easily the est player in the local comp down here. Any chance of schoolboys for him ?
Thought he had a very good game first up against QldI but unfortunately was on the back foot against NSWII which did him no favours. At best he may make reserves for Aust A. Check out the wrap-up for Day1 and Day 2.
 

Dark Shark

Alex Ross (28)
[source: Huge on June 26, 2013]
Qld showed all the promise ON PAPER but when they turned up the stripes had changed to dots.

Less than one third of those players from last years u16 QLD teams played Open Schoolboys this year. There may be a story in that itself (none that I am aware of, just that the stat seems unusual). So it was not a like for like comparison against past performances. I am curious to know how many of the NSW Opens took part in last years u16's.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Dark Shark. The bulk of the NSW teams were from the 2011 Under 16 tournament and are in Year 12 this year. In 2011 Qld Red U16's had a great tournament. On that basis I had the Qld teams as being the match of the NSW boys.

As others have posted elsewhere, the misalignment between the NSW and QLD State school systems contributes to the inability to use the previous years U16 as an accurate prediction of the next years Opens (U18) Schoolboy tournament.
 

Monday's Expert

Chris McKivat (8)
Not many of the IIs players that year (2006) were ever going to picked for Oz Schools. You can have half a team of strong players and still lose because of the other half; but you can make a strong team with the strongest from two teams.

We even spoke up this at the ground at the time.

There was no way that Kurtley Beale, Peter Betham, Quade Cooper, Rod Davies, Rob Horne, Dan Palmer, Paddy Ryan, Rob Simmons and Ben Tapuai were going to be overlooked for 2006 Oz Schools because their Ones' teams didn't play in the final.

Some of those Twos players who returned to school in the following year and played in the Ones, did well when they left school but not many of the others did - only Jesse Mogg and Alfie Mafi.

Basically they were either young, or lesser players as individuals, but they had a great talent for playing together.

The thing is: those Qld and NSW II teams that year clicked early on and the Ones' teams didn't.

Watch the NSW IIs team tomorrow: they'll give it a shake for the same reason.
.

Ahem.... Slipper, Toua, To'omua and Murday may wish to be considered having "made it" too. I suppose my deeper comment is that, just like the discards from CS who end up making sides each year, just because a 1s team is picked doesn't mean they got all of them right and 3-4 games of national standard in a week in a 2s side should allow a selector worth his salt, choose the best players from what has ben seen over the week. Whitaker, Sutherland, Philpotts and Carozza are capable, I don't rate the others.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Ahem.. Slipper, Toua, To'omua and Murday may wish to be considered having "made it" too.

You probably misunderstood what I wrote:

Some of those Twos players who returned to school in the following year and played in the Ones, did well when they left school but not many of the others did

Slipper, Toua, To'omua were in the group I mentioned that returned in 2007 and played in the Ones, but in 2006 they were young and in the Twos.

Of the players from the Qld and NSW 2006 Twos teams who did not return to school only J.Mogg, M. Inman and A. Mafi got to be players of note (and fringe Wallabies). I thought I had added Inman, but I didn't.

Others would add in Ben Whitaker and Richard Kingi (who was a reserve in the Twos and didn't have much of an impact) but few would mention Tom Murday.

But we are in danger here of talking about definitions of "did well" "players of note" and not rugby; so I will leave it at that.
.
 

Roar

Herbert Moran (7)
If NSW 11s have any chance of being Strong against NSW1s today.
They must Attack and Smash on the Right Side ( as since Tuesday that is the only side NSW1s have been passing )
and for NSW 11s to play in the Forwards as that is where NSW11s Strengths lie. And Please Mr. Refs. Let the play flow a bit as well. Hate too many Stoppages !
 

Gooner

Allen Oxlade (6)
Speculating on contracts in RL is walking on rocky ground. There are often figures quoted and thrown out there, most of which are completely wrong no matter where they are published or quoted from.
There are sponsorship deals and every (I mean every) club has outside payments to players in either product or cash.

On the U20s RL, its the most ridiculous competition in any sport I know of and it needs to be abolished as soon as possible. It breeds arrogant players (I cant say footballers) who have no concept of defense. Many have the attitude of having "made it" once playing U20s.

To follow this model in RU would be counter productive, there are many more things that need to be done before stepping into this quagmire.

I would like to know how 5 super rugby teams gives a young player more prospects than 18 NRL sides (plus the many other professional compeititions).

I agree with someone that mentioned RU gives more opportunities in other ways. I know of one kid that turned his back on an U20s deal to play RU because he saw an opportunity to travel the world.

The single most important thing to remember is that its about 0.01% of all kids that play RL or RU get to play it professionally at the top level.
Yet we spend a hell of a lot of time worrying about them instead of the other 99% that support the game.

12% of Holden Cup Under 20"s go on to play in the NRL
you will need to hold your breadth for 10 hrs or so.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
12% of Holden Cup Under 20"s go on to play in the NRL

do you mean at all, as in for 1 game or do you mean they have a number of games?
Whichever it is the point is: "success" in either rugby code to the age of 20 does not a sustainable career make.
 

Gooner

Allen Oxlade (6)
do you mean at all, as in for 1 game or do you mean they have a number of games?
Whichever it is the point is: "success" in either rugby code to the age of 20 does not a sustainable career make.

The 12% statistic came out of the RL under 20"s education seminar prior to the season starting. It could indeed be 1 game. I agree that success at the age age of 20 does not lead to a sustainable career.

Interestingly the figure quoted by the commentator during the under 20 rugby union World Cup final between Wales and England stated that 9 of the current British Lions squad played in that competition. On face value that seemed quite high.
 
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