Breakdown
Charlie Fox (21)
Adrian Henley is actually from St Peters Lutheran College QLD
- Status
Adrian Henley is actually from St Peters Lutheran College QLD
Lomu
Bob McCowan (2)
Yes h
Correct, also on contract with the Broncos.
I think there are only 4/14 NSW Private School boys who have not been at their current school since year 7.
Can't commment on the ACT, QLD boys backgrounds.
Stuff the Broncos mungo contract, at least that is in Australia.
Check this out for the Newington boys:
Only one will be playing Sydney club colts rugby next year by the look of it.
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
Who would they be HJ?
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
I can't believe Harry Jones missed out, unless there is a relevant reason; I would say, League will come a knocking.
FlashFlanker
Herbert Moran (7)
Think David Horwitz. Not "good" enough for Schoolboys last year. Played a very mature role in the Wicks 1st grade this year.
Schoolboy selection is not the be all and end all. Less then 1/2 go on to higher honours.
How Jones responds to his obvious disappointment will shape what he will achieve in rugby. As one door closes, others open up.
Schoolboy selection is not the be all and end all. Less then 1/2 go on to higher honours.
How Jones responds to his obvious disappointment will shape what he will achieve in rugby. As one door closes, others open up.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
They've been knocking - as they have for many of these boys.
It's an astonishing omission as he was the standout at the championships, scored the most tries (I think) and can kick goals and play 15 and perhaps long term is a 13 - at least he would pass the ball from those positions unlike the incumbents!
I gather his defence may be in question but the one incident I saw on Saturday that a casual observer may have put down to him was a failure in the system for dealing with the extra man, IMHO, because the 13 could not make up his mind who he was going to take: not a problem he would be used to dealing with in loig (or much at school for reasons worthy of a different thread). If I'm right 13 will be vulnerable to the more experienced "poms" he is about to encounter.
Anyway, Hutchisons defence on the other wing was shambolic but was not exploited: I acknowledge he was playing out of position and I'm not being critical of him just pointing out that wing defence is a bit of an art.
rugboy
Bob Loudon (25)
That poses an interesting conundrum, taking nothing away at all from Todd although Jones was exceptional at Nationals in the dominant team. Played against Fiji with little opportunity and little time against NZ. Seems if he didn't play tests he may have stood a better chance to tour??
Breakdown
Charlie Fox (21)
My error. What was the reason for the move especially given it has been mentioned he is contracted to the Broncos?
Any idea which path he is following?
CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
Can't believe his non-selection either - it's a disgrace really when you consider that a number of players selected will more than likely not be playing rugby after they return from the tour. What kind of message does this send to young players totally committed to rugby and who aspire to a future in the code. Such short sightedness is endemic of much of the decision making occurring at many levels of rugby which all contribute to the general malaise the game is in at the moment.
Hold your head up H Jones - there is nothing wrong with your defence and I've watched you put your body on the line many a time, often in the last line, stymying attacking raids.
Go and play somewhere where they'll put you in the 12 or 13 jumper and enjoy yourself.
Colin Windon
Herbert Moran (7)
Whilst many good judges are making a strong case, lets not fixate too much on the individual in relation to ommisions. Whilst these are relatively high stakes at age 16, 17 and 18 and many injustices appear to be done, it is sometimes best to just congratulate those who are selected and encourage those who have missed out.
Selectors have made mistakes since Jesus played in the reserves for Nazareth.
However if any individual has the talent he or she will make their way.
Study and train hard boys and in in most pursuits the maxim "the more you learn the more you earn" seems to apply.
Selectors have made mistakes since Jesus played in the reserves for Nazareth.
However if any individual has the talent he or she will make their way.
Study and train hard boys and in in most pursuits the maxim "the more you learn the more you earn" seems to apply.
Brian Westlake
Arch Winning (36)
As Mssr Jarse reminded us, David Horwitz missed out. Publicly, he took it like a man, put his head down and made the Waratah extended squad to Argentina and held himself excellently in first grade last year. I wish the best for young Harry Jones, because I think good things will come his way very very quickly
I think Harry and others who have missed out like Brandon P-A (whom I also rate) have to be a little circumspect.
As Brainstrust said on another thread:
If you have heard Eric Rush the former All Black speak he tells a great story about when he was growing up. He always trialled but never got picked. His father would always say "Don't worry because its just one blokes opinion, maybe the next guy will think differently". When he excitedly phoned his father to tell him he had been selected for the All Blacks, his father congratulated him, but reminded him "it's just one blokes opinion. Don't get a big head, because the next bloke may not like you."
Let us play with some numbers and history.
Australian Schoolboys started in 1969.
The first to make Wallabies was Russell Fairfax in 1971.
Fairfax was Wallaby #546. Jesse Mogg is the Wob # 869 (according to wiki), but Chris F-Sautia has debuted since then so he is #870.
Since 1971 there have been 324 Wallabies selected.
Chris F-Sautia and Liam Gill were Schoolboys in 2009. The 2010 onwards schoolboys reps are too young to be counted in this analysis.
Between 1969 and 2009 (inclusive), there have been 1066 boys represent Australia A or Australia Schoolboys.
Of these 1066, only 157 have gone on to be a Wallaby (14%).
Conversely of the 324 new Wallabies since 1969, 167 did NOT make Australia Schoolboys, or Australia A Schoolboys (51%).
So What:
1. Aust Schoolboy/Schoolboy A selection is a very poor indicator that the lad will become a Wallaby.
2. In recent times, more Wallabies have been selected who were NOT Aust Schoolboy/SchoolboyA representatives than those who were.
Cream rises to the surface, and there is every reason to believe that Jones and others will do well in the future provided they keep applying themselves, and maintain their fitness.
John Eales first rep team was the Aust Under 21's (IIRC).
I would commend anyone connected with Jones and Paenga-Amosa (and all others who have "missed out") to pass this information on to them. Hang in there. The sun will still come up tomorrow.
To those selected: Jolly good job and enjoy your time in the sun. The tour will be memorable, and it doesn't get any better than this. There is every chance that you will be one of those schoolboys that DOES become a Wallaby, if you stay fit and apply yourself.
Don't forget to study for your Matriculation exams in the mean time. Doing well in those must be your immediate goal.
As Brainstrust said on another thread:
If you have heard Eric Rush the former All Black speak he tells a great story about when he was growing up. He always trialled but never got picked. His father would always say "Don't worry because its just one blokes opinion, maybe the next guy will think differently". When he excitedly phoned his father to tell him he had been selected for the All Blacks, his father congratulated him, but reminded him "it's just one blokes opinion. Don't get a big head, because the next bloke may not like you."
Let us play with some numbers and history.
Australian Schoolboys started in 1969.
The first to make Wallabies was Russell Fairfax in 1971.
Fairfax was Wallaby #546. Jesse Mogg is the Wob # 869 (according to wiki), but Chris F-Sautia has debuted since then so he is #870.
Since 1971 there have been 324 Wallabies selected.
Chris F-Sautia and Liam Gill were Schoolboys in 2009. The 2010 onwards schoolboys reps are too young to be counted in this analysis.
Between 1969 and 2009 (inclusive), there have been 1066 boys represent Australia A or Australia Schoolboys.
Of these 1066, only 157 have gone on to be a Wallaby (14%).
Conversely of the 324 new Wallabies since 1969, 167 did NOT make Australia Schoolboys, or Australia A Schoolboys (51%).
So What:
1. Aust Schoolboy/Schoolboy A selection is a very poor indicator that the lad will become a Wallaby.
2. In recent times, more Wallabies have been selected who were NOT Aust Schoolboy/SchoolboyA representatives than those who were.
Cream rises to the surface, and there is every reason to believe that Jones and others will do well in the future provided they keep applying themselves, and maintain their fitness.
John Eales first rep team was the Aust Under 21's (IIRC).
I would commend anyone connected with Jones and Paenga-Amosa (and all others who have "missed out") to pass this information on to them. Hang in there. The sun will still come up tomorrow.
To those selected: Jolly good job and enjoy your time in the sun. The tour will be memorable, and it doesn't get any better than this. There is every chance that you will be one of those schoolboys that DOES become a Wallaby, if you stay fit and apply yourself.
Don't forget to study for your Matriculation exams in the mean time. Doing well in those must be your immediate goal.
Regarding the boys who are aligned to other codes next year: Uncle Lee has posted the ASRU view on many occasions.
The ASRU do not see themselves as a long term player development tool for the ARU.
Their role is to select the best players available from those who present for selection at National Championships. They have no concern about the boys intentions for the years post high school.
Taking this one step further, should boys who intend travelling overseas on a Gap Year in 2014 be excluded from selection? Should boys who may not play rugby in 2014 due to work or study reasons not be selected? What about boys who may, shock horror, represent another country due to dual nationality? There is at least one boy in the team who is not an Australian Citizen, but he is attending an Australian School.
Pick the best athletes available regardless of their intentions or loyalties next year.
See numbers above, over 50% of recent Wallabies were NOT Australian Schoolboys/Wallabies.
The ASRU do not see themselves as a long term player development tool for the ARU.
Their role is to select the best players available from those who present for selection at National Championships. They have no concern about the boys intentions for the years post high school.
Taking this one step further, should boys who intend travelling overseas on a Gap Year in 2014 be excluded from selection? Should boys who may not play rugby in 2014 due to work or study reasons not be selected? What about boys who may, shock horror, represent another country due to dual nationality? There is at least one boy in the team who is not an Australian Citizen, but he is attending an Australian School.
Pick the best athletes available regardless of their intentions or loyalties next year.
See numbers above, over 50% of recent Wallabies were NOT Australian Schoolboys/Wallabies.
Buster
Chris McKivat (8)
Have kept quiet on this thread for the past few days awaiting the squad announcement. A couple of things have caught my eye:
1. only 4 more NSW players, depsite both NSW teams competing in the final, i suspect a number of boys north fo the border can count themselves very lucky considering the state results and a number of NSW boys very unlucky.
2. on a Sydney GPS note, Newington & Scots joint premiers, Joeys placed 3rd or 4th, yet New get 5 in, Joeys 3 and Scots 2. Is it an indication that the 2 scots boys were the major difference in the team and were relied upon for there wins, and that Newington needed 5, and that the 3 joeys boys were so poiorly supported? I find it very hard to cop such an uneven representation of competition results. Interesting one of the coaches is a Neington teacher? The head coach is a QLD, most of the additional boys selected from QLD?
3. a notable lack of 2nd row depth in the squad (based on positions played at the recent tri nations. If the Newington lock is still injured or not at 100%, then it could be along slog overseas.
4. Aus had a very poor lineout on Saturday, and have added no extra locks. See point on long slog above.
5. I thought the combination of the centres on Saturday was poor at best. Were any of the additional boys added centres or outside backs? Excluding the big red headed QLD centre (magnay?). If not i assume they will look to run with the current set up which IMO was very poor. Hopefully the Riveview bloke gets some time in the centres to give another ball playing option....... they will need it!
6. Not a terribly big fan of rewarding boys who aren't entering the ARU sstem next year with this kind of opportunity. the two league boys as well as the young bloke of to Enzed IMO should probably have been exculded simply based on the time and resources and learning being offered (and i imagine subsidised in part by the ARU or RUPA). Those resources should have been offered to someone willing to go into the ARU system next year (colts or Soup U20's?)
Other then my minor gripes, good luck to all of the boys and enjoy what is likely to be the trip of a lifetime!
1. only 4 more NSW players, depsite both NSW teams competing in the final, i suspect a number of boys north fo the border can count themselves very lucky considering the state results and a number of NSW boys very unlucky.
2. on a Sydney GPS note, Newington & Scots joint premiers, Joeys placed 3rd or 4th, yet New get 5 in, Joeys 3 and Scots 2. Is it an indication that the 2 scots boys were the major difference in the team and were relied upon for there wins, and that Newington needed 5, and that the 3 joeys boys were so poiorly supported? I find it very hard to cop such an uneven representation of competition results. Interesting one of the coaches is a Neington teacher? The head coach is a QLD, most of the additional boys selected from QLD?
3. a notable lack of 2nd row depth in the squad (based on positions played at the recent tri nations. If the Newington lock is still injured or not at 100%, then it could be along slog overseas.
4. Aus had a very poor lineout on Saturday, and have added no extra locks. See point on long slog above.
5. I thought the combination of the centres on Saturday was poor at best. Were any of the additional boys added centres or outside backs? Excluding the big red headed QLD centre (magnay?). If not i assume they will look to run with the current set up which IMO was very poor. Hopefully the Riveview bloke gets some time in the centres to give another ball playing option....... they will need it!
6. Not a terribly big fan of rewarding boys who aren't entering the ARU sstem next year with this kind of opportunity. the two league boys as well as the young bloke of to Enzed IMO should probably have been exculded simply based on the time and resources and learning being offered (and i imagine subsidised in part by the ARU or RUPA). Those resources should have been offered to someone willing to go into the ARU system next year (colts or Soup U20's?)
Other then my minor gripes, good luck to all of the boys and enjoy what is likely to be the trip of a lifetime!
Buster
Chris McKivat (8)
And there HJ is part of Australian Rugby's inherent problem!!!!!!
All rugby pathways at a junior or U23 level should be built with the goal of getting the cream to the top, not playing on an individual level. Until it becomes streamlined, we are stuffed!
- Status