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Bledisloe 2 - Saturday 25th August 2018 - Eden Park, Auckland

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
The defensive strategy breaks down often due to the attacking strategy.

Yes, the ABs transition from defense to attack quicker than we can go from attack to defense, particularly when our attack peters out due to no viable options (i.e. lack of players in position). Easy to see why we are highly vulnerable, not easy to see what we should do differently. I don't see us playing 10 man style rugby to beat the ABs
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Yes, the ABs transition from defense to attack quicker than we can go from attack to defense, particularly when our attack peters out due to no viable options (i.e. lack of players in position). Easy to see why we are highly vulnerable, not easy to see what we should do differently. I don't see us playing 10 man style rugby to beat the ABs
Ought to though. I'm not saying we have better forwards than them, but even if you aren't necessarily playing to your own strength, surely you play away from theirs?

If you want an analogy with another sport, going toe to toe with the ABs is a bit like trying to play open attacking football against Pep's Barcelona at the Nou Camp. You'll lose 6-1 but at least it will be entertaining.

Stick to a regular game plan against everyone else, and play the most dire, stodgy pile of garbage you can against the ABs. Watch Ireland and England try to do exactly that.
 

Ignoto

Ken Catchpole (46)
Hard to argue with it though, I can't see any widespread changes the Wallabies could make there other than some position swaps and maybe some different outside backs.


I'd imagine not giving away so bloody penalties like Foley did in slapping the ball out of BB's hand after a tackle, DHP and was it Coleman taking a player out of the ruck when we were in their 22 would go a long way.

More importantly, not giving clearing kicks to a guy who can only kick 20 metres would go a long long way to not putting even more pressure on ourselves.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
So..my cousin spent most of week before last inside the All Black camp in Sydney. Watched them train, the drills they ran, talked to the coaches, was in the closed sessions etc.

He said that it was quite eye-opening getting an insight into what the AB coaches look for in players and the skills they practice. He coaches at school boy first XV level and unfortunately, he thinks the ABs are 12-15yrs ahead of the Wallabies.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
I'd imagine not giving away so bloody penalties like Foley did in slapping the ball out of BB's hand after a tackle, DHP and was it Coleman taking a player out of the ruck when we were in their 22 would go a long way.

More importantly, not giving clearing kicks to a guy who can only kick 20 metres would go a long long way to not putting even more pressure on ourselves.

Or maybe the number of taking out a man too far behind the ruck, I can forgive it a few times, but if the ref has penalised you for it a couple of times, perhaps think a little, it wasn't just Coleman I think I counted 3 of them.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I don't see us playing 10 man style rugby to beat the ABs

I don't understand, is this in reference to my comment? I don't think there's any iteration of an Aus XV that can play effective 15 man rugby.

I'd love to see a backline of 9. Genia, 10. Foley, 11. Koribete, 12. Hodge, 13. Kerevi/Kuridrani, 14. Folau, 15. Beale (yes, injuries).

This would minimise a couple of things we're good at right now (Folau countering, being about to offensively split the 13/15, etc.), but would work wonders in a whole heap of other ways PARTICULARLY on transition between attack and defence. We'd have to largely revisit our whole backline attack patterns around 15 and not the 12 being the 2nd ball player though, but that stuff isn't functioning that well anyway.
 
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Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Or maybe the number of taking out a man too far behind the ruck, I can forgive it a few times, but if the ref has penalised you for it a couple of times, perhaps think a little, it wasn't just Coleman I think I counted 3 of them.
This is a classic AB move though. Maybe they were just trying to bend the rules the way the ABs do so effectively?
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
I don't understand, is this in reference to my comment? I don't think there's any iteration of an Aus XV that can play effective 15 man rugby.

I'd love to see a backline of 9. Genia, 10. Foley, 11. Koribete, 12. Hodge, 13. Kerevi/Kuridrani, 14. Folau, 15. Beale (yes, injuries).

This would minimise a couple of things we're good at right now (Folau countering, being about to offensively split the 13/15, etc.), but would work wonders in a whole heap of other ways PARTICULARLY on transition between attack and defence. We'd have to largely revisit our whole backline attack patterns around 15 and not the 12 being the 2nd ball player though, but that stuff isn't functioning that well anyway.

KB at 15 is not an option, people forget how horrendous he was in the end of season tour there last year. He is suspect to high balls, teams like Ireland will just put the ball up all day long against us and gradually make their way up the field as he fumbles the ball all around the place. He was a fantastic fullback 6/7 years ago, but tactics have dramatically changed since then. I'd rather a boring/tackling 10 beside him to stiffen up that channel than move Beale from 12. The team is what it is at the moment, minus the 13 channel and Fardy return to 6 the starting team is just about as good as we can get. Perhaps Tupou starting to win some collisions and AAT becoming the reserve LH to stiffen up the scrum might make a dif, the bench could also do with McMahon winning collisions in the last 20mins.
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
Far too often in the case of the Wallabies FP.

We are doing as well as I expect, most of the tries were down to units caught with numbers or mismatches

We can limit that via tightening up the attack (less width and admonitions to not try the speculator pass), but we would still lose, just by less.

They are a really effective side, lets face Squire runs better lines than our backs
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
KB at 15 is not an option, people forget how horrendous he was in the end of season tour there last year. He is suspect to high balls, teams like Ireland will just put the ball up all day long against us and gradually make their way up the field as he fumbles the ball all around the place. He was a fantastic fullback 6/7 years ago, but tactics have dramatically changed since then. I'd rather a boring/tackling 10 beside him to stiffen up that channel than move Beale from 12. The team is what it is at the moment, minus the 13 channel and Fardy return to 6 the starting team is just about as good as we can get. Perhaps Tupou starting to win some collisions and AAT becoming the reserve LH to stiffen up the scrum might make a dif, the bench could also do with McMahon winning collisions in the last 20mins.

You just have to structure your back field right correctly to counter this. Just get your 9 and wing positioned correctly.

Having a 15 like Kurtley would be more about taking away long kicks and allowing him to insert himself into 10 off turn overs, then taking away contestable ones.

Plus, I think his struggles at 15 were more about bad escorts then him doing anything wrong specifically.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
I don't understand, is this in reference to my comment? I don't think there's any iteration of an Aus XV that can play effective 15 man rugby.

I'd love to see a backline of 9. Genia, 10. Foley, 11. Koribete, 12. Hodge, 13. Kerevi/Kuridrani, 14. Folau, 15. Beale (yes, injuries).

This would minimise a couple of things we're good at right now (Folau countering, being about to offensively split the 13/15, etc.), but would work wonders in a whole heap of other ways PARTICULARLY on transition between attack and defence. We'd have to largely revisit our whole backline attack patterns around 15 and not the 12 being the 2nd ball player though, but that stuff isn't functioning that well anyway.

I'm liking your thinking at the moment, amirite. Start by looking at the obvious structural/tactical deficiency, remodel the sort of talent needed to plug the hole, then select to the new strategy. It's the sort of holistic approach we don't seem to get at the Wallabies.

Would leaving Beale at 12, but placing To'omua at 10 and run with your 13 - could this also ease the switch from attack to D?

I'm guessing our line out and back row options need thought too. I'm wondering we need to reconsider a lighter more mobile and jumping 6, with the double-7 Pooper. AND look to more from the tight 5 in busting it up.

I'm not sure your selections are perfect, but I sure as hell like the approach.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I'm liking your thinking at the moment, amirite. Start by looking at the obvious structural/tactical deficiency, remodel the sort of talent needed to plug the hole, then select to the new strategy. It's the sort of holistic approach we don't seem to get at the Wallabies.

Would leaving Beale at 12, but placing To'omua at 10 and run with your 13 - could this also ease the switch from attack to D?

I'm guessing our line out and back row options need thought too. I'm wondering we need to reconsider a lighter more mobile and jumping 6, with the double-7 Pooper. AND look to more from the tight 5 in busting it up.

I'm not sure your selections are perfect, but I sure as hell like the approach.

Maybe - there's a lot of detail in this kinda of transitional role stuff that's a bit above my pay grade.

Even with your suggested combo you'd still probably end up moving Beale out to edge or fullback to defend, meaning you'd still need a winger who defends well in the middle channels. The bloke just isn't a great front on defender (like the majority or traditional smaller 10/12s).

AAC was great at the 'winger defending at #13' thing, but we've struggled since he left.

I don't really think Tui is the issue, and I actually like the idea of a big carrier in traffic at 6 who can jump in the line out. You need both those things to balance Pooper, playing Samu there would create all sorts of issues even if he's talented.

I'd like to see Tui and Rodda switched because Rodda seems to be a bit quicker and more agile for #6, but I think that'd take a couple of weeks to develop and functionally they'd all being doing similar things. Maybe no real point.
 
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Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
So now we're getting all sorts of calls to play people out of their natural positions again. Beale to 15, Izzy to 13, Rodda to 6. It just goes from ridiculous to worse.

DHP is a fullback and had one of the better games there in Bledisloe 2. Leave him there.

Beale and Foley are weaknesses in defense, whether front on in the line or shifting around to wings and or fullback. Is there any wonder that the Wallabies can't transition from defense to attack on those few occasions the ABs turn the ball over?

Folau might be a good bet at wing, but has shown nothing at 13 when tried by the Tahs, and in fact was played pretty much at 13 in attack in Bledisloe 1, to no real effect.

Rodda is a lock, and like most locks is fairly ponderous in the open. He would not make a 6 in a month of Sundays. Tui has some promise but again is slow around the ground which is a weakness from him. I don't think Samu has shown much in the tests he's played and is not a No 8. Timu would be a better option there.

Arnold is a better fit to start with Coleman, and then Rodda can come off the bench. Tui despite his lack of pace is our best No 6 atm but will be challenged once Dempsey and Valetini are fit and Naisarani is eligible.

The backline must be stabilised in defense with all players defending in their spots. No more swapping around in defense. To'omua needs to come into the starting lineup at 10 or 12. Either or both of Foley and Beale must make way or we'll always have huge holes in the defensive dyke. I would be open to Beale at 10 and To'omua at 12, but more radically perhaps, To'omua at 10 and Meakes at 12. Looks like Hodge at 13 until one of the Ks returns. Izzy considered for wing but nowhere else. Koroibete to come out until he learns to control himself in his kick chases etc. Misses too many tackles by not having the smarts to adjust when the runner puts a step on.

I have been wondering too, just what lineup we'll go with in the back row if and when Naisarani, Dempsey and Valetini come good, say from early next year. If Dempsey regains his No 6 spot, and Naisarani (from March) proves to be the No 8 we are all wanting him to be, who, out of Hooper and Pocock, then go to the bench or be left out altogether? Hard to see the $6m man being left out, but that's exactly what should happen. RA and Tahs fans must be hoping Pocock will leave after the RWC so that the contract can be justified.
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
I have been wondering too, just what lineup we'll go with in the back row if and when Naisarani, Dempsey and Valetini come good, say from early next year. If Dempsey regains his No 6 spot, and Naisarani (from March) proves to be the No 8 we are all wanting him to be, who, out of Hooper and Pocock, then go to the bench or be left out altogether? Hard to see the $6m man being left out, but that's exactly what should happen. RA and Tahs fans must be hoping Pocock will leave after the RWC so that the contract can be justified.

I'll say as a Waratahs supporter that before Pocock returned this year I thought if one of Hooper and Pocock were going to be benched then it was going to be a 50/50 call to split them. Over the course of this season, however, Pocock has proven that he is not only the best player in Australian Rugby but the best by quite a distance. Despite Hooper being a great player and despite him being the Captain if we have genuine options at 8 and 6 I'd like to see Hooper on the bench and Pocock at 7.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
I'll say as a Waratahs supporter that before Pocock returned this year I thought if one of Hooper and Pocock were going to be benched then it was going to be a 50/50 call to split them. Over the course of this season, however, Pocock has proven that he is not only the best player in Australian Rugby but the best by quite a distance. Despite Hooper being a great player and despite him being the Captain if we have genuine options at 8 and 6 I'd like to see Hooper on the bench and Pocock at 7.
Throws his contract in perspective. I rate the player higher than most other people but geez, makes it hard to drop the bloke if that's what's called for.
 

Bandar

Tom Lawton (22)
Tahs fans must be hoping Pocock will leave after the RWC so that the contract can be justified.

I don't know any that would take Hooper over Pocock if there are better players filling out the back row.

Personally I think it would be great to be able to give them both a rest from time to time depending on the opposition and how the match is progressing. But if we had Dempsey and Naisarani both playing to their potential Hoops would come off the bench for a fantastic impact in the 2nd half, replacing whoever the is not going so well.
 
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