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Bledisloe II @ Eden Park

JRoss

Stan Wickham (3)
It's a team game. I don't get the idea that it is grossly unfair that the team gets affected by one player's actions.

Is it grossly unfair when a player makes a mistake and it costs their team a try or the game?

I think you move into dangerous territory if you are deciding that trying to keep the game as even as possible for the fans is of more importance than the laws of the game.

High and dangerous tackles are reducing because the penalties for it are harsh. Look at the prevalence of lifting tackles in the game now compared to a few years ago. The zero tolerance policy has changed techniques. It works.

I gave 3 important points as to why I think its a flawed punishment.

The example of a player mistake costing a try is 'apples and oranges' opposed to 14 Vs 15 for half the game.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
The example of a player mistake costing a try is 'apples and oranges' opposed to 14 Vs 15 for half the game.


I don't think it is that far apart. It is individual actions affecting the team which is part and parcel of team sport.

I am not against the idea of an orange card or similar such that there is a punishment for a sent off player where their team gets to replace them after 10 minutes (or 20 minutes if that was deemed more appropriate).

Is that punishment harsh enough though? We want to change player behaviour and greatly reduce the frequency of players getting hit in the head.

Clearly the spectacle for fans is important because the sport (like any professional sport) relies on paying customers to help fund it. I'm not sure that should mean you don't want players sent off. I don't think the game became uninteresting because it was 15 vs 14 in the second half.
 

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
It's a hell of a lot less unfair than some guy ending up in a wheelchair from getting smashed in the neck. It obviously has a cost, but this has to be a priority.

And side-bar: I think the ABs were deliberately trying to (legally) rough-up Hooper, which is a completely legitimate thing to do. They stuffed it up and this red was the product. I therefore feel less sympathy in this instance compared to instances that felt more random, e.g. Warburton in the 2011 WC.
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
Well, we've seen evidence of one, but the Kiwi media said it so it must be true.

Haha KOB and the Aussie media have informed us all the All Blacks are to old, so I guess it must be so!!
I still say same as what I said originally, neck rolls although I know are dangerous etc, are generally not done on purpose, not defending them and I know Cane got a couple , but I certainly didn't think he was targeted or they were intentional, he's a 7 so he gets in position where it happens, same as I call bullshit on Hooper getting targeted, I seriously doubt he had any more push and shove to him than he gave out, watch him in a game, when he playing well, he is an annoying bugger with a habit of a bit of jersey holding etc, no worse than many, Dane Coles is another when they playing well they do tend to do a little niggle.

Hell I know I used to when I played many moons ago, just a quick shoulder off ball, accidently hold someone's jersey as he broke from ruck etc, and buggered if I could jump in lineout without my inside arm trying to just upset my opposition jumper, in those days there was no lifting and I ALWAYS used my outside arm to get ball so inside arm could be used for skullduggery!! FFS it's rugby!!
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
A neck roll is basically your only good option if you miss the original cleanout (you can try a croc roll but it’s not always that effective against someone like Pocock or Creevy). It’s probably the percentage play as well, if you don’t remove the jackal you concede a penalty for holding on, if you go the neck roll then at worst you concede a penalty and at best you are not sanctioned. Until neck rolls are an automatic yellow we won’t see them going anywhere.
 

Tex

Jim Lenehan (48)
It's a hell of a lot less unfair than some guy ending up in a wheelchair from getting smashed in the neck. It obviously has a cost, but this has to be a priority.

And side-bar: I think the ABs were deliberately trying to (legally) rough-up Hooper, which is a completely legitimate thing to do. They stuffed it up and this red was the product. I therefore feel less sympathy in this instance compared to instances that felt more random, e.g. Warburton in the 2011 WC.

It was nothing that we didn't do to McCaw for his entire career, and what the Orcs did first to George Smith and then Poey. 7s are giant cheating pests and when they're the premier player, they're going to cop a few starchier hits
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
When was the last time anyone got one?


Hard to say. Referees have not been dealing with it properly.

SANZAAR gave a citing commissioner's warning (which is the equivalent to a yellow card post match) for one on Pocock last year in Super Rugby (Gareth Evans from the Highlanders). That is an acknowledgement it should have been a yellow card in the match.
 

Up the Guts

Andrew Slack (58)
Hard to say. Referees have not been dealing with it properly.

SANZAAR gave a citing commissioner's warning (which is the equivalent to a yellow card post match) for one on Pocock last year in Super Rugby (Gareth Evans from the Highlanders). That is an acknowledgement it should have been a yellow card in the match.
Cheers, something they need to focus on if they want to stamp it out of the game. Much to Dan’s horror, the cynic in me wants to suggest they’ll be looking at it much more closely now NZ is complaining.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Cheers, something they need to focus on if they want to stamp it out of the game. Much to Dan’s horror, the cynic in me wants to suggest they’ll be looking at it much more closely now NZ is complaining.


Yeah, I think there will be a lot of focus on foul play tomorrow night. Both teams will need to be really careful.
 

Joe Blow

Jim Lenehan (48)
They want to complain about neck rolls now? David Pocock no doubt has permanent damage from all the times he has been neck rolled over the past 4-5 seasons, mainly by the darkness. Poor bloke will not be able to look over his shoulder when he’s 40.
The Australian coach and press screamed blue murder many times but if fell on deaf ears.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
They want to complain about neck rolls now? David Pocock no doubt has permanent damage from all the times he has been neck rolled over the past 4-5 seasons, mainly by the darkness. Poor bloke will not be able to look over his shoulder when he’s 40.
The Australian coach and press screamed blue murder many times but if fell on deaf ears.


To be fair, some of those neck rolls weren't done by the All Blacks. They were done by New Zealanders in Super Rugby ;)
 

Dan54

Michael Lynagh (62)
They want to complain about neck rolls now? David Pocock no doubt has permanent damage from all the times he has been neck rolled over the past 4-5 seasons, mainly by the darkness. Poor bloke will not be able to look over his shoulder when he’s 40.
The Australian coach and press screamed blue murder many times but if fell on deaf ears.

No Joe, sorry to disappoint you but ABs haven't been complaining about neck rolls, it been a media thing from what I saw. I think you will find McCaw might have copped as many as Pocock, perhaps they neede a coach that bleated for anyone to notice??:p

I just sitting here watching Kick Off TV show from NZ, Justin Harrison is a guest on it with Izzy Dagg, Mils Muliana, and Bryn Hall,(and Tim Horan on video) thoroughly enjoyed it. When you see how well these fellas all get on it makes you wonder why we have so much rubbish from so called fans who are not the ones who have spent the time bashing shit out of each other. An awful lot of respect and friendship shown I thought.
 

Joe Blow

Jim Lenehan (48)
I was referring to the media. Just saying that there was no response when it was highlighted many times in previous years by the press as well as Cheika.
 

BDA

Peter Johnson (47)
Two or three years ago the Wallabies were traveling on the Autumn Tour and the first big game was against England and heading into the game we lost Adam Coleman to injury. I remember thinking how much a loss that was to our chances of winning. Funny now that I'm having the same concerns that we might lose a step without Arnold. This is a really big game for Coleman in the context of his test career. Coming on an smashing blokes for 20 odd minutes is one thing, playing 60 odd minutes is another.
 
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