Brumbies vs Waratahs - Round 2, 2016

[Pfitzy]

So I slept in a bit this morning, then remember the Rugby Gods have seen fit to give Channel Ten a replay.

Saw from about minute 24 (8-5) to minute 60-65 (not long after Tomane's try but before the penalty try).

I have to say that, besides a bit of creak in the scrum, there are few reasons to be negative about a Tahs side, under a new coach, in the second game of the season. Sure, the stupidity of repeat idiots like Latu needs to be questioned, particularly in light of putting the rest of the team under pressure, but overall I thought we were doing pretty well.

The Ponies didn't get the walkover they had against the Canes, and were being harried into mistakes several times during this period. Once our replacements came on, things started to look a bit down, but I thought we were pretty solid overall.

Cut out the brain farts, get the combinations going, and bring back incumbent and undisputed Wallaby fly half Bernard "Asskicker" Foley, and we'll proceed into the rest of the season quite nicely.

The scrum things are largely technical, and while there are still huge questions over our recruitment, it wasn't all one-way traffic. For example, the scrum penalty that gave the Ponies an 11-8 lead was simply smarts, not strength or power. They stepped right and drove on the angle, and we didn't counter because Paddy isn't a loosehead. TPN was perfectly correct when pulling the ref up about it, but the only way to change his mind is never let it happen again. Several times in that period of play the Ponies tried the direct shove on and either couldn't move us, or their THP would eat grass.

In any case, the Ponies were smarter and I'm sure the last 15 minutes looked emphatic, but they will take as much away from this performance in terms of work-ons as we will. That lineout we turned over in their half could easily have been a try if the handling was better, though a lot of credit had to go to the Brumbies defensive line as well.

I had to laugh at the punch-up though, because it was started by Cubelli and Phipps having a bit of a pushing contest, then Smiler steps in and shoves Phipps, then all of a sudden its on.

Fucking halfbacks.

 

[mudskipper]

Kafer loses all objectivity when the Brumbies are playing and his pathological hatred of the Waratahs magnifies his hysteria when the two teams play each other.

I used to consider him a knowledgeable contributor, now he's just another of the bufoons on Fox.

In truth Kafe is very realistic and fair... If anything holds back when it comes to the brumbies... The player in mention was unsportsman like and should be suspended for a good while...Latu has done tremendous damage to his side nit being available to a team with an exstensive injury list

 

[Sully]

In truth Kafe is very realistic and fair.

And Marto picture is next to 'balanced opinion' in the dictionary

 

[mst]

So Latu is suspended for 1 week. Happens to be a bye week so he won't miss a match. So punching someone in the face, with a pretty clear intent judging by the photo of the clenched fist well before contact basically ok with SANZAR now?
Moral of the story ... if your going to punch someone do it the week before you have a bye so you don't really get punished.

 

[cyclopath]

The most surprising thing is that anyone is surprised by the mystical process that is the SANZAR judicial system. Never fails to perplex. There will be plenty more to come this season, I'll wager.

 

[Sully]

Seriously? This is a totally new judiciary. The old flawed SANZAR judiciary has been replaced with the much more effective SANZAAR judiciary.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[Caputo]

Most laughable was that SANZAR judiciary has declared all games are equal - Test = Super Rugby= Club Competition = Trial game.

Pity the sevens wasn't on this weekend coming Latu could have got credit with 6 games in a weekend.

Hope Latu was starting for Sydney University would hate for him to have been an unused substitute and required another game.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I had to laugh at the punch-up though, because it was started by Cubelli and Phipps having a bit of a pushing contest, then Smiler steps in and shoves Phipps, then all of a sudden its on.

Fucking halfbacks.

Twas ever thus. I loved how the two yappy fellas (is there any other kind of halfback?) started it and then high tailed it out of the stoush when the big dogs came into finish it. Absolute comedy.

 

[Groucho]

In truth Kafe is very realistic and fair. If anything holds back when it comes to the brumbies. The player in mention was unsportsman like and should be suspended for a good while.Latu has done tremendous damage to his side nit being available to a team with an exstensive injury list

Yeah, Kafe is accurate.

 

[Groucho]

Twas ever thus. I loved how the two yappy fellas (is there any other kind of halfback?) started it and then high tailed it out of the stoush when the big dogs came into finish it. Absolute comedy.

The ridiculous thing about modern stoushes is that they consist of a dozen players all holding each other back from mayhem they have no intention of committing. Sometimes a player gets caught with no-one to hold back and they look like a complete idiot.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/story/_/id/14913567/waratahs-hooker-tolu-latu-serve-one-week-ban-bye

So how many 'tahs will be playing Club footy this weekend? I thought the days of pretending a guy was gonna turn out for his Club for the sole purpose of reducing or in this case avoiding a suspension were over.

I do feel sorry, tho, for the poor bugger(s) denied a break so that the farce looks real........ assuming, of course, there are any.

And if that's at the lower end of foul play, could Stelzner please explain what's at the upper end?

I know I shouldn't be surprised, this being SANZAAR & all, but this is a fuckin' joke. Shoulda been three weeks & no way should a bye count: you do your time in the comp you did the crime, or the level above.

 

[fatprop]

http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/story/_/id/14913567/waratahs-hooker-tolu-latu-serve-one-week-ban-bye

So how many 'tahs will be playing Club footy this weekend? I thought the days of pretending a guy was gonna turn out for his Club for the sole purpose of reducing or in this case avoiding a suspension were over.

I do feel sorry, tho, for the poor bugger(s) denied a break so that the farce looks real.... assuming, of course, there are any.

And if that's at the lower end of foul play, could Stelzner please explain what's at the upper end? I know I shouldn't be surprised, this being SANZAAR & all, but this is a fuckin' joke.

The Tahs do have a policy of getting them back, especially the bench and reserves who need game time, but they are often limited in the minutes they are allowed to manage workload

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'll be sure to keep an eye out for the team sheets when they're released later in the week. Club officials must be rubbing their hands together at the prospect of having actual Super Rugby players gracing their fields, imagine what it'll do attendance- & food & beverage sales-wise

EDIT: didn't something similar happen with Beale last year or 2014? Pulling a swifty on the judiciary twice does not a policy make..............

BTW I see the Reds have Goromaru listed as "Bond" so he's therefore officially a "coastie" - gotta be a Bond villain joke in there somewhere ("Oddjob" is taken, tho, someone on here has already hung that on Yamashita over at the Tribe).

 

[Braveheart81]

And if that's at the lower end of foul play, could Stelzner please explain what's at the upper end?

I know I shouldn't be surprised, this being SANZAAR & all, but this is a fuckin' joke. Shoulda been three weeks & no way should a bye count: you do your time in the comp you did the crime, or the level above.

The offence is: 10.4 (a) Punching or striking, A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).

So already, punching is likely to be looked at as less dangerous than a knee or elbow.

Secondly, he threw one punch. A couple of years ago Laurie Weeks was found guilty with a mid range offence for multiple punches (around 6 from the hearing news release).

A king hit or something to a player from behind would be a punching offence that would be likely to be in the high range of the offence.

When they can't show footage of the punch landing or who it landed on, it's hard to find him guilty of anything more than the low range offence.

Clearly he's got very lucky that the Tahs have a bye next weekend but that is the way it works and that is the way it has always worked. If there's a game the player could have played, that counts. If they tried to limit suspensions to the competition the offence was committed in then they run into issues with suspended players being available for test matches etc.

 

[Brumby Runner]

"In handing down the decision, SANZAAR citing official Robert Stelzner said Latu's act was at the lower threshold for foul play."

Tolu must count himself a very lucky man. Clearly, the JO found the punch landed, otherwise Latu presumably wouldn't have pleaded guilty. Had a similar situation occurred in the streets of Kings Cross, the puncher could well be facing a court appearance.

From the wording of Law 10.4(a), I cannot see where there is a distinction between striking with a fist or striking with an elbow or foot. They are all mentioned as defining the same offence. Anyone then looking at punching being a lesser offence than the others is mistaken in my opinion.

The JO is also out of touch with the general rugby community in allowing the suspension to take place over a bye week. If he wanted Latu to miss a game, he should have taken the bye week into account by adding another week to the sanction, ie two weeks which would have the effect of banning him from one Super Rugby game.

I don't have an axe to grind in the sense of wanting Latu to miss a game against the Brumbies, but I strongly feel the sanction he received is manifestly too light.

 

[Braveheart81]

"In handing down the decision, SANZAAR citing official Robert Stelzner said Latu's act was at the lower threshold for foul play."

Tolu must count himself a very lucky man. Clearly, the JO found the punch landed, otherwise Latu presumably wouldn't have pleaded guilty. Had a similar situation occurred in the streets of Kings Cross, the puncher could well be facing a court appearance.

That is irrelevant. If you tackle someone on the street you will be charged with assault.

They didn't have footage of the punch landing. Clearly the outcome might have been different if they did.

From the wording of Law 10.4(a), I cannot see where there is a distinction between striking with a fist or striking with an elbow or foot. They are all mentioned as defining the same offence. Anyone then looking at punching being a lesser offence than the others is mistaken in my opinion.

That is not true. The low range for punching stipulates a two week suspension. The low range for head butting stipulates a four week suspension. They are all covered under the same offence though but the outcomes at the judiciary are treated differently.

The JO is also out of touch with the general rugby community in allowing the suspension to take place over a bye week. If he wanted Latu to miss a game, he should have taken the bye week into account by adding another week to the sanction, ie two weeks which would have the effect of banning him from one Super Rugby game.

I don't have an axe to grind in the sense of wanting Latu to miss a game against the Brumbies, but I strongly feel the sanction he received is manifestly too light.

That is just luck of the draw. They work within a set of guidelines and being suspended counts for all forms of the game. They have no choice but to take it on face value and accept that a bye in one competition still counts as a week of suspension if the player has another game they could legitimately play.

Looking at all the previous punching incidents in rugby, it's hard to argue that this was anything more than a low range offence. It was a single punch with no visual evidence of the punch landing and the player pleaded guilty which automatically gets a reduction in sentence. It is not an offence that World Rugby is trying to clamp down on such as lifting tackles so there is no deterrence suspension added to the original suspension.

 

[Pfitzy]

Considering he has another suspension on his record, its an interesting outcome.

The whole "plead guilty = lower sentence" still grates with me.

 

[Braveheart81]

Considering he has another suspension on his record, its an interesting outcome.

The whole "plead guilty = lower sentence" still grates with me.

The previous suspension is mentioned in the ruling. As it was for a lifting tackle it is not considered similar and therefore doesn't impact this situation.

A reduced sentence by pleading guilty is standard across most judicial systems. I guess if there was no incentive to plead guilty, we'd spend a monumental amount more of taxpayer money funding judicial systems.

 

[Gnostic]

"In handing down the decision, SANZAAR citing official Robert Stelzner said Latu's act was at the lower threshold for foul play."



Tolu must count himself a very lucky man. Clearly, the JO found the punch landed, otherwise Latu presumably wouldn't have pleaded guilty. Had a similar situation occurred in the streets of Kings Cross, the puncher could well be facing a court appearance.



From the wording of Law 10.4(a), I cannot see where there is a distinction between striking with a fist or striking with an elbow or foot. They are all mentioned as defining the same offence. Anyone then looking at punching being a lesser offence than the others is mistaken in my opinion.



The JO is also out of touch with the general rugby community in allowing the suspension to take place over a bye week. If he wanted Latu to miss a game, he should have taken the bye week into account by adding another week to the sanction, ie two weeks which would have the effect of banning him from one Super Rugby game.



I don't have an axe to grind in the sense of wanting Latu to miss a game against the Brumbies, but I strongly feel the sanction he received is manifestly too light.

I wish there was a LMFAO emoticon. Somebody thinks a member of a judiciary is out of touch with their constituents whom they purport to serve. Bloody hilarious. I gave up hope a long time ago given that no judiciary is accountable to anybody but themselves and club mates.

 

[Froggy]

While I think the guy is a goose, and needs it made very clear to him that if he can't impose some self-discipline he needs to re-consider his super rugby career, there are some mitigating factors.

Firstly, the melee certainly wasn't started by him, and it wasn't that long ago that the person regarded as the prime offender was the guy who started it all. Secondly, there were a number of punches thrown, Latu's was the only one that could be clearly identified. That doesn't lessen Latu's offence, but it does make it difficult to be even handed.

And while everyone gets on their high horses about what a diabolical act it was, let's not forget Stephen Moore's completely unprovoked punch last year, which everyone saw but went completely unmentioned by the judiciary. I guess there are different rules for the Australian captain as against a young up and coming player with a reputation for being a bit hotheaded!