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Carter, Rokocoko , Inhoff - Corticosteroid Use (Allegedly)

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Ignoto

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
Moving away from whether they had a TUE or not, I'd be interested when the injection/treatment was done and how soon they were playing. Recently everyone comes out about player welfare being paramount, but if they took a banned substance the week leading up to a match or matches, surely it shouldn't matter if a TUE was granted or not.

If you require a banned substance to continue playing while injured, surely that goes against why TUE's are granted rather than being given a TUE because you're sick/injured and require one for surgery/recovery purposes.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
Ignoto said:
Moving away from whether they had a TUE or not, I'd be interested when the injection/treatment was done and how soon they were playing.
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He (Carter) had suffered the injury during the Champions Cup final against Saracens in Lyon the previous month and was forced to leave the field early. Rokocoko had been recovering from a knee injury in the run-up to the Top 14 final in Barcelona on June 25.
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Champions Cup final was 14 May, so the testing was done 6 weeks later. Carter returned to the team after the injury for the quarter final on 11 June.
 
Highlander35

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Traces of corticosteroids from cortisone injection with appropriate TUEs in place is what's supposedly happening with Carter.

Genuinely don't know. Wouldn't surprise me that it would be in France though.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Not directly commenting on this as the details are sketchy still, but my issue in sport currently to do with TUEs is the lack of real transparency. Corticosteroids have their place for treating many medical and injury-related conditions, but there is no doubt at all that they do confer a performance advantage in sports. A cortisone injection with local anaesthetic to get a player through a match is one thing, but certain corticosteroids have a degree of benefit from stripping fluid and weight in cycling, apart from the temporary general feeling of awesomeness one gets when taking a short course. If anyone thinks the system as it stands is not open to some degree of abuse, they are naive.
Again, I'm not directly commenting on these cases, more the general issue.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Speaking generally, would it not be better all round for sports people or their clubs/teams/managers to be open about such treatments and publicise what they are on, for what condition and whether a TUE has been granted?
 
D

dangerousdave

Frank Nicholson (4)
Although Cortisone might technically be a steroid it really annoys me when the media conflate performance enhancing drugs, banned substances and steroids.

Compare this story to weightlifting where you have whole teams of people getting caught taking what the layman thinks of as *actual* steroids like dianabol, turinabol and stanozolol (all the 'ols).

PEDs are a complex topic and it's really not helpful when the media use headlines that conjure up images of Arnie in pumping Iron when the issue at hand is more likely about treating injuries.
 
D

dangerousdave

Frank Nicholson (4)
Brumby Runner said:
Speaking generally, would it not be better all round for sports people or their clubs/teams/managers to be open about such treatments and publicise what they are on, for what condition and whether a TUE has been granted?
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If you don't want teams knowing your line-out moves you *definitely* don't want other teams knowing who has a dicky ankle this week if you can help it.
 
Alex Sharpe

Alex Sharpe

Chris McKivat (8)
I think that regardless of the legality of the players use of steroid injections, the initial response from L'equip and other media sources has been a little bit over the top.
At worst, the players and Racing medical staff have bent the rules in order to aid the rehabilitation or management of an injury, which they should not get away with. However, the headline "Carter Takes Steroids" is over the top. I don't think there is any blatant cheating at play, and I don't think the players character should really be questioned here.
The process of applying for TUE's while using the substance in the time frame where permission has been granted can been an extremely murky process.
I choose to back Carter, Rokocoko and Inhoff until I see evidence that they deliberately tried to cheat.
 
WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
I seriously doubt there was ever any intent to circumvent the doping regulations. I have a really hard time imagining a player with the career and profile of Carter (or Rokocoko and Imhoff respectively) would risk it.

If anything I think there may have beenva stuff up on behalf of the medical team in regards to sorting this issue out ahead of time as not to cause issue.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Corticosteroids could be used as a performance enhancing measure, there are reported benefits for increasing the pain threshold and cardio vascular system. But, that's something more inclined to be used in cycling or endurance sports rather then rugby.

Ultimately they have probably taken cortisone injections to expediate recovery or reduce inflamtion so that they could play in the last few games of the season.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
cyclopath said:
Not directly commenting on this as the details are sketchy still, but my issue in sport currently to do with TUEs is the lack of real transparency. Corticosteroids have their place for treating many medical and injury-related conditions, but there is no doubt at all that they do confer a performance advantage in sports. A cortisone injection with local anaesthetic to get a player through a match is one thing, but certain corticosteroids have a degree of benefit from stripping fluid and weight in cycling, apart from the temporary general feeling of awesomeness one gets when taking a short course. If anyone thinks the system as it stands is not open to some degree of abuse, they are naive.
Again, I'm not directly commenting on these cases, more the general issue.
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So, reading between the lines, it is your expert medical opinion that Carter is a cheating, steroid abusing bastard, no doubt the product of a corrupt and cynical system and all of the All Blacks achievements for the last 50 years should be stricken from the records.

Look - that sounds a tad harsh to me, but you're the expert.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
TSR said:
So, reading between the lines, it is your expert medical opinion that Carter is a cheating, steroid abusing bastard, no doubt the product of a corrupt and cynical system and all of the All Blacks achievements for the last 50 years should be stricken from the records.

Look - that sounds a tad harsh to me, but you're the expert.
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Ha ha! That's the clickbait version, I guess! :D
But seriously, it's an odd system. I mean, a cynical mind would say that one could look at the list of permissible medications, and permissible uses and fudge up a reason to qualify and maybe gain a few % benefit. Probably far more applicable in cycling than rugby.
My feeling is these cases mentioned today are complete storms in teacups. But for 5 decades or more, the chemists and sports scientists have been many steps ahead of the law. I'm sure little has changed.
 
Ignoto

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
All Black Magic said:
Sorry - not interesting at all
Just a pain killer
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Pretty blase attitude don't you think? I can count of the top of my head a handful of reasons why a pain killer in a contact sport is a drug that is performance enhancing.

Team Sky are coping a lot of heat for 'legitimate' TUE's taken by Bradley Wiggins and Froome. In their cases, they are taking somewhat 'innocuous' drugs, but it raises eyebrows especially for a team that has been so vocal about being 'clean'. There are a lot of similarities between the All Blacks and Team sky when you think about their success and constantly performing at levels well above the rest of the field.

Anyway, I digress from my earlier point. If players require a TUE for a painkiller to play a game of rugby, they should not be playing. It's evident that that they are injured (albeit minor in some cases) and require an appropriate amount of time on the sideline to recover.

On the face of it, the TUE's are nothing, but like I said about Team Sky, it raises eyebrows about a team that is so clearly dominate against the rest of the world.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
ACT Crusader said:
Dan posted on his Facebook last night about him being cleared. He actually applauded the efforts of those that try to stamp out "drug cheating"
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That's nice, and I don't in any way doubt his integrity for a minute, but:-
a) what else would he say?
b) so did Armstrong and many other subsequently proven drug cheats.
 
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