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CAS Rugby 2014

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Scythe

Larry Dwyer (12)
Congratulations to all the boys that made CAS, but just as Will Genia has missed out on the Wallabies I'd love to hear some opinions about talent in a losing side/smaller school. I think selectors might have a flaw in picking on chemistry rather than talent or form. Last year we saw an entire Barker backline underperform at representative level then scrapped for the latter GPS fixture. The Kirkby/Smeardon/Renton situation this year will certainly add intrigue to the debate as the omission of Barkley Brown from 1sts is a cruel one. Vevers is likely to be injured but perhaps a flyhalf/fullback combination of Renton and Vevers or Barkley Brown would be more dangerous than Smeardon and Renton? It's all food for thought and hopefully Barkley Brown (T), Patterson (W) and Dainton (A) get the run in 1sts they deserve as surely between Trinity, Waverley and Aloysius there are some stiff feelings at the moment. On a similar note, Nick Slaven (A) missing out altogether raises some eyebrows in this chemistry vs weaker side talent discussion.

All great points big kev ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

J.Jones

Frank Row (1)


The starting team for North Harbour U16s was announced today and I was absolutely in shock seeing James Armstrong (K) on the bench. He was picked in NSW U15s last year and has played 1sts rugby for Knox this year, should be one of the first picked in CAS U16s this year. I am not sure whether this is because he is such a certainty or not but if it is based on form, this is a farce. I don’t want to harp on about Knox too much but this also extends to other schools. I have also been down to a few U16s games this year and Matt Dainton (A) (who I believe was in NSW u15s last year) and Pete Slaven from Alloys, who are absolute standouts from the team running clear 2nd in that competition, are also on the bench. Again, not sure if already picked but they must be in there. Armstrong, Dainton and Slaven have been 3 key starting backline members of the Gordon Rep. team that has won 5 state championships in the last 6 years. There is something seriously wrong with the system if any of these 3 (who are in the top 5 players in the competition) misses out on the CAS team because they don’t get a chance. Maybe their respective schools aren’t pushing their case, maybe they’re already picked, I’d love to hear some explanation.
Barker have double the players alloys has in the starting team despite being belted by them at Barker. I believe the coaches are from Barker which may be at the detriment of Knox and Alloys players.
 

Gary Owen III

Syd Malcolm (24)


The starting team for North Harbour U16s was announced today and I was absolutely in shock seeing James Armstrong (K) on the bench. He was picked in NSW U15s last year and has played 1sts rugby for Knox this year, should be one of the first picked in CAS U16s this year. I am not sure whether this is because he is such a certainty or not but if it is based on form, this is a farce. I don’t want to harp on about Knox too much but this also extends to other schools. I have also been down to a few U16s games this year and Matt Dainton (A) (who I believe was in NSW u15s last year) and Pete Slaven from Alloys, who are absolute standouts from the team running clear 2nd in that competition, are also on the bench. Again, not sure if already picked but they must be in there. Armstrong, Dainton and Slaven have been 3 key starting backline members of the Gordon Rep. team that has won 5 state championships in the last 6 years. There is something seriously wrong with the system if any of these 3 (who are in the top 5 players in the competition) misses out on the CAS team because they don’t get a chance. Maybe their respective schools aren’t pushing their case, maybe they’re already picked, I’d love to hear some explanation.
Barker have double the players alloys has in the starting team despite being belted by them at Barker. I believe the coaches are from Barker which may be at the detriment of Knox and Alloys players.
What was the team named?
 

Snort

Trevor Allan (34)
I think selectors might have a flaw in picking on chemistry rather than talent or form. Last year we saw an entire Barker backline underperform at representative level then scrapped for the latter GPS fixture. The Kirkby/Smeardon/Renton situation this year will certainly add intrigue to the debate as the omission of Barkley Brown from 1sts is a cruel one. Vevers is likely to be injured but perhaps a flyhalf/fullback combination of Renton and Vevers or Barkley Brown would be more dangerous than Smeardon and Renton? It's all food for thought and hopefully Barkley Brown (T), Patterson (W) and Dainton (A) get the run in 1sts they deserve as surely between Trinity, Waverley and Aloysius there are some stiff feelings at the moment. On a similar note, Nick Slaven (A) missing out altogether raises some eyebrows in this chemistry vs weaker side talent discussion.

Interesting ideas but you seem to assume that some players have been left out because of "chemistry" and I'm not sure that's so. I certainly don't have a hotline to the selectors but I'm pretty sure Kirkby is in there because he's the best 9 in the competition. Smerdon has been in Barker's 1sts for three seasons, has won two premierships, is the incumbent CAS 1sts 10 and in decent form - not an easy guy to leave out. On the other side of the equation, Slaven is certainly a good player, but who should have been left out to make room for him? There are lots of strong back-rowers available, and players like Van Zyl, Corias and Mahony probably feel aggrieved to be in the Seconds.

I actually think it's fair to assume that the selectors picked the best players available, and didn't prefer one player to another because of combinations. There may be good reasons to disagree with them in some cases, but I don't see any huge injustices.
 

J.Jones

Frank Row (1)
What each team will face for their next 5 games with final predictions as to standings in CAS.

Barker - As Far as barkers results are they have met my expectations, though have not exceeded it. Smerdon Has produced with what he has been given (not much, though after the past two years i have been spoilt) and nic burkett has another stellar season. I expect them to notch another 2 wins against trinity and Waverly, and will loose to aloysius at the college oval by a close margin. My overall prediction is 5-5 and good enough for 3rd place.

Cranbrook - Look the hype for this school will stop now. I am sorry but i can not see them filling the true underdog story of predicted last comes first, undefeated and beating the antagonist knox. I am not sold on this team. If you were at the oval i was at when knox played cranbrook you will agree knox came in arrogant and expecting to win. Cranbrook did well, put them under the pump early and made Knox scared. Though knox broke through this and made it 12-0, and this is where Cranbrook broke the ice to win. They did not win this game, knox lost it. Cranbrook will loose to knox and at best be tied CAS premiers. AT BEST I think they will get the 4 wins unless an injury happens. I could see them being upset and loosing a game so they will finish with a record of 9-1 at best or 8-2 loosing a surprise game. But by all means cranbrook, please prove me wrong.

Knox - It was theirs for the taking. I had them pegged at the perfect 10-0 season though pure arrogance and cockiness cost them the game. They were the real deal, they were the team to beat. This team on paper is by far the best in CAS and they know that. They have some quality names in Widders leece, Pierce, van zyl and watson though have gone and royally screwed up the comp. At the beginning of the season could you have imagined the possibility of this scenario "Cranbrook tops CAS, knox comes second" or "Knox and Cranbrook joint premiers". Look knox, i still believe you have won this comp, though i think your loss to cranbrook should have been a wake up call. I predict knox will go 9-1 and win the competition regardless of cranbrooks status. Maybe im being harsh on my old school but boys the most important message is to bring it back to knoxy !!

St. Aloysius - For many years now i have been watching this schools rugby. Not because they are good at it but, no matter how many key injuries they have, losses to their name, they play with their hearts out and are guaranteed to provide an intense game. Though this year something has changed. They look like they arent playing footy, more like NFL. The game so structured it is ridiculous and at the end of the day the boys arent playing rugby, they are playing human chess. Correct me if i am wrong, though it looks like a lot of the boys have given up or dont like playing rugby. This was evident at their home loss to waverly. In regards to individual talent if i saw this team on paper in comparison to the other teams i would have put them third, potentially second at the start of CAS. Its more of the usual same big names of Dainton, Lawson, Slaven, Vevers and Wikinson caring week in week out and whatever supporting cast they have are thinking about what party they have that night. Look, i like alloys as school and are going the right way in sport though this team looks like they dont care anymore. I dont know whether its from the amount of year 11's in the team (couldnt care not last year) or bad bonding between the team. My prediction for alloys is to come 5th beating waverly, barker and trinity (50/50 in regards to trinity) and loosing to knox and cranbrook outfits.

Trinity - like barker, trinity have held my expectation in regards to predictions which was fourth or fifth at the beginning of the season. They have a few big names that have come to mind, but are on a downward spiral. Im not too sure what happen did they forget to give a scholarship or two at the beggining of the season. Anyway between Corias, nguyen, fillipo and barkley brown i believe they will pull together a few wins. I predict they will finish 4-6 which will place them in fourth position.

waverly- When you have such a young team in a firsts competion you cant expect too much. I take my hats off to them for rallying back to beat alloys at the college oval, well done boys. Moreover, i strongly believe that they are heading in they right direction for the future. They have lots of young talent and will be an exciting team moving forward! my prediciton is they will finish last with a record of 1-9, simply dude to lack of experience at a firsts level.

Thats all,

JJ
 

J.Jones

Frank Row (1)
Interesting ideas but you seem to assume that some players have been left out because of "chemistry" and I'm not sure that's so. I certainly don't have a hotline to the selectors but I'm pretty sure Kirkby is in there because he's the best 9 in the competition. Smerdon has been in Barker's 1sts for three seasons, has won two premierships, is the incumbent CAS 1sts 10 and in decent form - not an easy guy to leave out. On the other side of the equation, Slaven is certainly a good player, but who should have been left out to make room for him? There are lots of strong back-rowers available, and players like Van Zyl, Corias and Mahony probably feel aggrieved to be in the Seconds.

I actually think it's fair to assume that the selectors picked the best players available, and didn't prefer one player to another because of combinations. There may be good reasons to disagree with them in some cases, but I don't see any huge injustices.


Slaven played hooker up until he played firsts, he is a utility and would be very good to have in the team. personally i think he should have been placed in the reserves. Brett Van Zyl not playing firsts is just blasphemous
 

RugbyFan14

Herbert Moran (7)
Last year we saw an entire Barker backline underperform at representative level then scrapped for the latter GPS fixture.


Not sure what game you were at - the CAS v GPS match was played at Knox in difficult wet conditions. The entire Barker backline did play in that match, they were not "scrapped". [Connor Watson (K) was selected at outside centre but was injured so Cam Dove (B) was promoted] The team played very well against an extremely strong side.

The GPS supporters were expecting to win by 60 and were very surprised by the strength of the CAS side. You may recall the GPS centres (Taane Milne and Tepai Moeroa both from Newington) were selected for Australian Schools rugby and NSW rugby league. They were magnificently gifted players. If you were at the game you would also recall that Andrew Kellaway (Scots 15) was an incredible player. Most of that GPS backline went on to make Australian Schools.

Despite all this the CAS backline played very well and Harry Jones went on the be selected for Australian Schools and Tyson Davis for Australia A.
 

Snort

Trevor Allan (34)
St. Aloysius - For many years now i have been watching this schools rugby. Not because they are good at it but, no matter how many key injuries they have, losses to their name, they play with their hearts out and are guaranteed to provide an intense game. Though this year something has changed. They look like they arent playing footy, more like NFL. The game so structured it is ridiculous and at the end of the day the boys arent playing rugby, they are playing human chess. Correct me if i am wrong, though it looks like a lot of the boys have given up or dont like playing rugby. This was evident at their home loss to waverly. In regards to individual talent if i saw this team on paper in comparison to the other teams i would have put them third, potentially second at the start of CAS. Its more of the usual same big names of Dainton, Lawson, Slaven, Vevers and Wikinson caring week in week out and whatever supporting cast they have are thinking about what party they have that night. Look, i like alloys as school and are going the right way in sport though this team looks like they dont care anymore. I dont know whether its from the amount of year 11's in the team (couldnt care not last year) or bad bonding between the team. My prediction for alloys is to come 5th beating waverly, barker and trinity (50/50 in regards to trinity) and loosing to knox and cranbrook outfits.

I don't know that it's very helpful to suggest that boys in a school 1st XV "have given up or don't like playing rugby". I don't know the boys concerned, but my experience is that boys playing 1st XV rugby are pretty committed. There's no reason to suggest that a poor attitude is to blame here when the more likely reason is that they're simply outgunned. This year, St Aloysius has a younger, smaller team than most other schools and as a result they're struggling. We all like to believe that commitment and heart can make up for lesser size and talent, but that doesn't always hold true.

In any case, I struggle to see how you think a team that "doesn't care anymore" will turn its season around by winning three of its next five games.
 

RugbyFan14

Herbert Moran (7)
Overall CAS selections look about right. To my mind Van Zyl (K) should have been 1sts rather than Pierce (K) but the loose forwards was always going to be difficult with so many good and evenly matched players.

Barkley-Brown in 2nds is tough. He is great in attack and very solid in defence (last year he was one of the few players who could tackle Harry Jones). Are his injuries counting against him perhaps? Renton is a better goal kicker than Smerdon so perhaps that is a factor?
 

Snort

Trevor Allan (34)
Overall CAS selections look about right. To my mind Van Zyl (K) should have been 1sts rather than Pierce (K) but the loose forwards was always going to be difficult with so many good and evenly matched players.

Barkley-Brown in 2nds is tough. He is great in attack and very solid in defence (last year he was one of the few players who could tackle Harry Jones). Are his injuries counting against him perhaps? Renton is a better goal kicker than Smerdon so perhaps that is a factor?

My impression is that the selectors wanted to fit both Smerdon and Renton into the side, and Renton has played in the back three before. And no doubt his kicking is a strong factor in his favour.
 

J.Jones

Frank Row (1)
I don't know that it's very helpful to suggest that boys in a school 1st XV "have given up or don't like playing rugby". I don't know the boys concerned, but my experience is that boys playing 1st XV rugby are pretty committed. There's no reason to suggest that a poor attitude is to blame here when the more likely reason is that they're simply outgunned. This year, St Aloysius has a younger, smaller team than most other schools and as a result they're struggling. We all like to believe that commitment and heart can make up for lesser size and talent, but that doesn't always hold true.

In any case, I struggle to see how you think a team that "doesn't care anymore" will turn its season around by winning three of its next five games.

Aloysius, correct me if I am wrong seem to have by the best crowd in CAS (Knox is a close second) and have had for years. This is evident across all sports not only in rugby, and I don't think barker will be able to beat them at home, simply due to the hype Aloysius will create for this game. I'm just saying to myself if Aloysius lost to barker 21-0 (should have been a 14-7 loss) away I can seriously see them pulling this off at home. Waverley they handed them the game, like I said I'm not too sure about trinity to be honest. It all depends on trinity and their consistency.

Moreover, yes Aloysius may have a smaller team though this team is a lot more talented than usual. The whole back line for Aloysius have played at least one season of representative footy and I believe the twins both played randwick. They may be small but they are talented, which is why I think I have been harsh on them. They may not be good enough to be coming first, but last with no wins is below their standards. On the pitch it seriously looks like a effort. I don't know what the cause is, but it is most clearly evident
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
Aloysius, correct me if I am wrong seem to have by the best crowd in CAS (Knox is a close second) and have had for years. This is evident across all sports not only in rugby, and I don't think barker will be able to beat them at home, simply due to the hype Aloysius will create for this game. I'm just saying to myself if Aloysius lost to barker 21-0 (should have been a 14-7 loss) away I can seriously see them pulling this off at home. Waverley they handed them the game, like I said I'm not too sure about trinity to be honest. It all depends on trinity and their consistency.

Moreover, yes Aloysius may have a smaller team though this team is a lot more talented than usual. The whole back line for Aloysius have played at least one season of representative footy and I believe the twins both played randwick. They may be small but they are talented, which is why I think I have been harsh on them. They may not be good enough to be coming first, but last with no wins is below their standards. On the pitch it seriously looks like a effort. I don't know what the cause is, but it is most clearly evident


Waverley took the game off Alos.
 

bringbackthebiff

Bob McCowan (2)
The starting team for North Harbour U16s was announced today and I was absolutely in shock seeing James Armstrong (K) on the bench. He was picked in NSW U15s last year and has played 1sts rugby for Knox this year, should be one of the first picked in CAS U16s this year. I am not sure whether this is because he is such a certainty or not but if it is based on form, this is a farce. I don’t want to harp on about Knox too much but this also extends to other schools. I have also been down to a few U16s games this year and Matt Dainton (A) (who I believe was in NSW u15s last year) and Pete Slaven from Alloys, who are absolute standouts from the team running clear 2nd in that competition, are also on the bench. Again, not sure if already picked but they must be in there. Armstrong, Dainton and Slaven have been 3 key starting backline members of the Gordon Rep. team that has won 5 state championships in the last 6 years. There is something seriously wrong with the system if any of these 3 (who are in the top 5 players in the competition) misses out on the CAS team because they don’t get a chance. Maybe their respective schools aren’t pushing their case, maybe they’re already picked, I’d love to hear some explanation. Barker have double the players alloys has in the starting team despite being belted by them at Barker. I believe the coaches are from Barker which may be at the detriment of Knox and Alloys players.


The game is simply a trial for the CAS 16's team and many different players are put in different positions. Yes the coaches may be detriment of knox and aloys boys but everyone gets equal game time at preferred positions.
 

david turner

Bob McCowan (2)
waverly- When you have such a young team in a firsts competion you cant expect too much. I take my hats off to them for rallying back to beat alloys at the college oval, well done boys. Moreover, i strongly believe that they are heading in they right direction for the future. They have lots of young talent and will be an exciting team moving forward! my prediciton is they will finish last with a record of 1-9, simply dude to lack of experience at a firsts level.

Thats all,

JJ[/quote]

Waverley from what I saw, did not play very well at all against Aloysius. Honestly, they we're lucky to be ahead at half time. Their defence was not fantastic. Aloysius, I counted, bombed 5 tries in that first half. The game was won on execution, which Aloysius simply did not do.
I don't know what may have happened in the second half to let Waverley in but certainly after waves first try their heads seem to drop and therefore lacked confidence into contact.
Ultimately, your point on their season looks correct and it certainly looks like their ATAR isn't the only thing going down the drain.
 

sw57

Bob McCowan (2)

Representative Teams
2014 Representative season

CAS Opens ( as of 31st May ) to play on Thursday 5th June v CHS
1st XV - Tom Hill ( C ), James Widders-Leece ( K ) Alexander Rathie ( C ), Hugh Summerhayes ( C ), Lachlan Swinton ( K ), Nick Burkett ( B ), Jake Pierce ( K ), Nick Makas ( C ), Stephen Kirkby ( B ), David Smerdon ( B ), Zac Edelstein ( C ), Joe WIlliams ( K ), Nick Carroll ( B ), Sean Campbell ( B ), Sam Renton ( C ), Coaches – Mr T Glassie ( K ), Mr H Engele ( T ), Mgr – Mr B Robinson ( B ),
out – Price ( K ), Watson ( K ),
2nd XV - Harry McLennan ( T ), Charlie Banks ( C ), Austin Black ( K ), Will Stenmark ( C ), Langton McCombe ( C ), George Corias ( T ), Tom Mahony ( C ), Brett Van Zyl ( K ), Roy Harrison ( C ), James Dainton ( A ), David Brbati ( T ), Henry Patterson ( W ), Jordan Bracewell ( W ), Deon Navayan ( W ), Seb Field ( K ) - Res Rob Lacinski ( K ), Anthony Nguyen ( T ), Edward Cook ( T ), Justin Cooper ( W ), Tim Pearson ( B ), Angus McNiven ( C ), Dew Nutall ( W ), Tom Wilson ( C ), Coaches – Mr G Munday ( A ), Mr J Burr ( A ), Physio – Mrs N Veverka
out – Barkley-Brown ( T ),
All boys to attend training at Knox Grammar on Monday 2nd June from 4pm sharp.
LUCAS PRICE AND CONNOR WATSON OUT 1sts
RIHANN BARKLEY-BROWN OUT 2nds
 

sw57

Bob McCowan (2)
Would I be wrong in assuming that if Watson is not injured, come the CAS v GPS fixture he will automatically slot back into his position in the back line? After all he is the most attack gifted back in the competition this year I believe
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
waverly- When you have such a young team in a firsts competion you cant expect too much. I take my hats off to them for rallying back to beat alloys at the college oval, well done boys. Moreover, i strongly believe that they are heading in they right direction for the future. They have lots of young talent and will be an exciting team moving forward! my prediciton is they will finish last with a record of 1-9, simply dude to lack of experience at a firsts level.

Thats all,

JJ

Waverley from what I saw, did not play very well at all against Aloysius. Honestly, they we're lucky to be ahead at half time. Their defence was not fantastic. Aloysius, I counted, bombed 5 tries in that first half. The game was won on execution, which Aloysius simply did not do.
I don't know what may have happened in the second half to let Waverley in but certainly after waves first try their heads seem to drop and therefore lacked confidence into contact.
Ultimately, your point on their season looks correct and it certainly looks like their ATAR isn't the only thing going down the drain.[/quote]


You can only play as well as the other team lets you. Alos did bomb tries in the first half due to bad execution but Waverley defended well. Waverely also gave a lot of penalties away so had to defend. Waverely were too strong in the second half and Alos were outplayed.
 

oldandslow

Herbert Moran (7)
Ducked out to Cranbrook, found a “close” park within 1.5km of the ground and saw North v South today, with South getting up 27-22.

On a soggy pitch with drenching rain for most of the game it wasn’t ideal conditions for a trial.

Even so, the boys played fairly well, with defence being the name of the game in the first two quarters (being a trial, the game was played in quarters) and some more attack later, as the rain eased off.

Being a trial, players had limited game time. I’m not sure the selectors would have learned too much from a wet game today.

North had all the ball and territory early and South defended very bravely, continually repelling attacks in their 22. Despite their holding on South couldn’t get their hands on the ball and it looked like North would run over the top, especially when South 16 was sin binned for a clumsy (but not malicious) high tackle. That all changed when Longville (10) was moved to fly-half for South and momentum immediately shifted. Longville’s excellent kicking game saw South clearing its 22 safely and easily after previously being bogged down and his flat passing opened up space in attack.

It was a day when it was hard to throw the ball around or for individual players to stand out. That said:

For North: 4 was big and strong in attack and defence. 13 was solid. 15’s handling was superb in the wet and he kicked astutely. 23 (playing inside centre) was incisive in attack.

For South: 6 was the stand-out from both sides, routinely carrying the ball over the gain line, scoring a good sniping try up the blind after some backline work to set him free and displaying powerful defence and clean out work. 10 changed the game when moved to fly-half, with a wonderful kicking game taking control of territory and his skill running straight and passing flat on attack opening up North’s defence. 8 (who was packing at prop in the scrum) ran strongly, defended aggressively and scored a great individual try, carrying 4-5 players over the line with him off a tap from 12m out. 12 had a strong game, running hard and making two separate crunching one-on-one tackles to turn over possession while North were only 10m out and looking likely to score.


Apologies I don’t know most of the names – there was no program and the CAS website doesn’t ascribe numbers to any of them, but if anyone can post player lists with numbers that would be appreciated!
 
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