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CAS Rugby 2017

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WLF

Arch Winning (36)
CAS is an interesting comp and it is getting some good press from the strength of Knox and Waverley this year.

But there is still a gap in strength between the top two and the next group, which are some issues raised out of the Green and Gold 2016 season review.

While Barker have shown glimpses of their early 10's best, they are still not able to deliver. Trinity appears to be a team that manages to produce NSW schoolboys but never reaches their potential. Cranbrook appear to have less and less focus on rugby, with the transition away from the strong coaches and directors they had a few years ago to minimising their investment this year. Alos appear to be a bit of a dark horse, but don't seem to have as much focus.

The point is, how will the CAS survive this current trend that appears to be creating mismatches and making rugby unenjoyable for these schools that struggle?

Is it a matter of resources that sees Waverley and Knox going up the ladder? I know people will argue about how much one school spends against another, but the coaching is what I mean here - Knox and Waverley have very good coaches - hence the way each of these teams play above their weight against GPS squads.

I think the coaching structures at these schools allow them to succeed. Look at when Waverley became successful, it was when they changed their coaching structure last year. Thoughts? Knox have always been good, but Williams has ushered in a new era of professionalism to the Knox program. Thoughts?

What needs to be done to ensure the CAS competition and all its competitors remain competitive in what could be considered the trophy sport of the competition?



W88,

Some very interesting thoughts from you here, and relevant.

I tend to fall back on some lifetime experiences I have learnt/some the very hard way, albeit in business or whatever and suggest most, if not all, things cascade down from the top ie Head of School etc.

I do hear Waverley constantly being referred to as the poor under resourced cousin BUT i don't believe this anymore. We now have a brand new super gym, have always had a fantastic Olympic pool. So physical resources are NOT a problem.
Like a strong Head of School, strong coaches are the game, we NOW have both, a new strong head of school, who REALLY enjoys his rugby, and 2 unbelievable rugby coaches in the first XV, and in the last few weeks they have been training the next generation, ie younger age groups when the opens have a day off. Absolutely Wonderful!!

Someone else aptly pointed out that if other CAS schools want to remain in the comp long term they must adapt. TIS TRUE,unfortunately each school will have to get going with their future programs, same applies with each,and every, GPS school, or they will get a bad bad result every week, which becomes unbearable,and they will ultimately fade away.

In another GPS post there is talk about how the 3rd's comp will cope going forward, given this 1sts and 2nds GPS/CAS trails have changed from 2-1 rounds, and I think Quick Hands said maybe go back to the 2 round comp, in response to saving the 3rds comp!

In all due respect, I think not, this 1sts/2nds comp should be the focus, unfortunate for the 3rds comp, but the 3rds comp won't ever lead the future in rugby development, and I certainly don't mean anything here against those boys who play in this comp.

Rugby is FAST getting towards a survival of the fittest against AFL and Soccer, so some strong strategeic and executional plans need to be put in place, the OLD days are gone!

GIDDYUP!!!
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
I agree.
Per sqm property in the east near Waverley is much more than near Warrawee.


moa99,

I think you know I wasn't referring to land value, it was in reference to amenities!

Let's DO NOT get into a $ comparison because as i see it, the resources are comparable, and they are.
 

moa999

Sydney Middleton (9)
I know that. Was more referring that Knox is not really the silvertails referred to above.

While Waverley obviously has lower fees, I suspect many parents on greater family wealth or properly values.
 

WLF

Arch Winning (36)
I know that. Was more referring that Knox is not really the silvertails referred to above.

While Waverley obviously has lower fees, I suspect many parents on greater family wealth or properly values.


moa99,

Probably right but I think we all agree this about Rugby.

I will however tell you a truth as to why Waverley has been historically less expense than other big private schools.

When it all started many years ago until relatively recent days, the Christian Bros, unlike paid teachers charged little/$0 for their teaching time, and there were a large number of brothers in the good old days.

So the cost base for running the schools/business was way lower than most other schools,íe wages, thus the ability to charge lower fees.
Some other Jesuit schools perhaps did not adopt the same philosophy, or had a more expensive school cost base, so these schools had to charge a higher fee, or they had a higher profit expectation.

This is now changing as there are probably no Christian bros teaching anymore, so expect the relative fees to get closer, but all depends on the business position of each school. ie debt or otherwise.

Not many people actually know this but tis true, and schools like Cranbrook (the wealthiest of ALL schools), Scots and Waverley will never have the land space of the North Shore/Parramatta schools for obvious reasons.

Having returned to KINGS 2 weeks ago for my sons games, after many years, I thought and said to a few other parents, HOW BRILLIANT was the gentleman who had the foresight to see what this school could be!

ITS OWN POSTCODE, Truly AMAZING!!
 

noeyeddear

Allen Oxlade (6)
Confirmed barker playing Joeys 3rds and Barker 2ds playing Joeys 6
RUGBY
Team Opponent Venue Time
1st St Josephs 3 Barker Oval 3.15
2nd St Josephs 6 Barker Oval 2.00
3rd Sydney High Barker Oval 1.00
4th Trinity 3 TGS 1 10.00
5th St Josephs 10 Barker Oval 9.00
6th St Ignatius 9 Barker Oval 8.00
16A St Josephs A Barker Oval 11.00
16B Sydney High Barker Oval 10.00
15A Reddam House Parade Grd 6 Centennial Park 12.00
15B Sydney High McKay Oval 1 Centennial Park 9.00
14A St Josephs B McKay Oval 1 Centennial Park 11.00
14B Sydney High McKay Oval 1 Centennial Park 10.00
13A St Josephs A Mark Taylor Oval Waitara 10.30
13B Sydney High Mark Taylor Oval Waitara 9.30
13C St Ignatius C Mark Taylor Oval Waitara 8.30
13D Scots F Barker Oval
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
I agree.
Per sqm property in the east near Waverley is much more than near Warrawee.


Its not much more. Real estate in any half decent area in Sydney isnt cheap.
And a mortgage tends to eat into the cash flow.
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
I know that. Was more referring that Knox is not really the silvertails referred to above.

While Waverley obviously has lower fees, I suspect many parents on greater family wealth or properly values.

As far as private schools go, Waverley is the cheapest in the Eastern Suburbs.

As a consequence, it's where the battlers, the ordinary working folk send their sons.

And the area itself and its surrounds are traditionally working class.

You'd be lucky to spot a Silvertail at Waverley.
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
I will likely get howled down for saying this but maybe the real problem is that society has become too matriarchal. Mommy is too concerned with little Johnny coming home with his pretty little face sprig marked when (given a choice) little Johnny would love to show off his sprig marked face to his mates on Monday. So Johnny cant play Rugby anymore. Seen it Guys..

You've got a point there.

Political correctness dictates that the old saying ''boys will be boys'' shouldn't be uttered anymore.

But when boys come off a rugby field, bruised and battered, covered in mud (that used to happen more often; covered in mud I mean) and generally looking happy and euphoric while singing a victory song with their mates, the general gist of the saying hits home. And so what if a player got a black eye; no big deal.
In fact, a black eye should be worn as a badge of honour (is that politically incorrect?).

Although, seeing some of those defensive hits in women's rugby means that it is not restricted to boys only now, but the saying 'boys will be boys' is still relevant. It shouldn't be whispered.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot of bad press regarding head injuries in contact sport. I think statistically, rugby is down the list as a game causing injury but it doesnt help. It's the perception.

There are a lot more winter sport choices in schools now than there used to be.

A lot more kids are already playing soccer and AFL before they reach high school. AFL has infiltrated school sport very successfully in recent years, adding significantly to the choices of sports that can be played.

Unfortunately, neither soccer nor AFL seem as rough.
 

Hasbeen

Bob Loudon (25)
After reading the GPS and the CAS threads and having watched what is going on in most of the CAS schools for some years now query whether the diehard schools with the strongest rugby culture (Knox and Waverley) leave the CAS and join the GPS comp with the CAS being expanded by the strugglers - High, Grammar and some of the ISA schools. Just a thought. From what I can work out Rugby in the CAS is on a significant downturn. It will be a 2nd or 3rd rate competition which is a pity but I dont think the parents in most of the remaining schools really care.
 

Elfster

Dave Cowper (27)
The
You've got a point there.

Political correctness dictates that the old saying ''boys will be boys'' shouldn't be uttered anymore.

But when boys come off a rugby field, bruised and battered, covered in mud (that used to happen more often; covered in mud I mean) and generally looking happy and euphoric while singing a victory song with their mates, the general gist of the saying hits home. And so what if a player got a black eye; no big deal.
In fact, a black eye should be worn as a badge of honour (is that politically incorrect?).

Although, seeing some of those defensive hits in women's rugby means that it is not restricted to boys only now, but the saying 'boys will be boys' is still relevant. It shouldn't be whispered.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot of bad press regarding head injuries in contact sport. I think statistically, rugby is down the list as a game causing injury but it doesnt help. It's the perception.

There are a lot more winter sport choices in schools now than there used to be.

A lot more kids are already playing soccer and AFL before they reach high school. AFL has infiltrated school sport very successfully in recent years, adding significantly to the choices of sports that can be played.

Unfortunately, neither soccer nor AFL seem as rough.


The perceived roughness of the sport is one of my pet peeves. The injury count in the other sports are just as high.

And also off topic a bit, am I the only one who thinks that in removing the old fashioned rucking they have made the game more dangerous. Players stayed on their feet and there was no human missiles clearing out players nor any neck rolls.
 

William88

Syd Malcolm (24)
The


The perceived roughness of the sport is one of my pet peeves. The injury count in the other sports are just as high.

And also off topic a bit, am I the only one who thinks that in removing the old fashioned rucking they have made the game more dangerous. Players stayed on their feet and there was no human missiles clearing out players nor any neck rolls.

There are surely more injuries to knees in AFL than there is in Union as well, bird it's considered a softer sport because it's perceived they don't have any contact like union does.
 

Armchair Selector

Johnnie Wallace (23)
I don't think it's a two horse race. Barker are very strong this year and will make the games very difficult prospect for Knox and Waverley.

Plus trinity is well coached and has speed to burn. Underestimate your opposition at your own peril.

From what I have seen I cant see Barker competing against Knox or Waverley for the top 2. Barker 1sts lost against Joeys 2nds last weekend and have a chance to "redeem" themselves against Joeys 3rds this weekend. FYI Joeys 3rds defeated Trinity 1sts a few weeks back.
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
The schools have their hands tied.

Even if a school has a pro rugby headmaster he cant very well refuse entry of AFL into the school. It would be good if he could and if he did but. .....

Unfortunately a lot of kids are playing AFL now as their preferred winter Club sport and the AFL came bearing gifts. They made it very easy for the schools to introduce the game into the school sporting programme.

The AFL marketing machine in general has allowed the game to grow exponentially in Sydney. They got a strong foothold into junior sport when the Rugby League Super league war was going on. They took advantage.

If it was up to a vote from Old Boys at the respective schools AFL wouldn't have got their foot in the door.
 
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