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Concussions and Protecting Our Players

LeCheese

Ken Catchpole (46)
I saw part of a concussion discussion on the ABC last night - odd as I haven't watched ABC in years. The guy stated 'this is not an issue just for 120kg rugby players but affects all areas' I assume he was talking about sports.

If this proves correct (a big IF) then it is 'sayonara' to all contact sports because the guy was saying one concussion where you lose consciousness can have lifelong impacts and 3 is a high risk of impacts. How do you play contact sport without risk of a head knock?
You bring in variations that reduce the risk.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Mark Ella (57)
Wish I could remember the name of the Podcast I listened to about Concussions and how different people have a varying rate of concussion and likelihood of its occurrence. Also spoke about people's ability to recover can be completely different and the best way to explain it was to say it is like an allergic reaction.

Could be an interesting avenue for the future if they can identify people who should avoid certain activities like contact sport.

I find it interesting that so many sports like both Rugby codes and even Cricket have become so cautious but sports like MMA and other Martial Arts are growing in popularity really quickly around the world. .
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
When I was involved in rugby in the western suburbs of Sydney, there was a young guy at the club I was involved with who broke his neck in a head-on tackle with his head in the wrong position and another I heard about also related to a tackle that went wrong.
Don't know the stats but I suspect broken necks were more prevalent in tackles than scrum collapses.
The stats above agree. I guess scrums were easier to tinker with to make safer. And it’s probable that more head knocks will eventuate from low tackles if the tackle height is lowered. But hopefully the numbers improve with the change.
I think the problem with comparing concussions to broken necks is a broken neck is instant, the effects of concussions aren’t.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Two seasons is only a small sample, but this would suggest you’re correct. Makes sense considering tackles are more frequent than scrums too.

Isn't it saying the opposite?

There might be more minor neck injuries from tackles but the number of severe injuries is the same and there are more moderate neck injuries from scrums than tackles. I note that this is a tiny study and didn't feature any catastrophic spinal injuries (thankfully).

Given that there must be about 10 times the number of tackles per match than scrums that shows the risk of scrums to be much higher.

This is also in an era where scrums have been made a lot safer than they were in the past.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
You bring in variations that reduce the risk.
The ABC guy being interviewed seemed to have a firm view on the impacts being very large and affecting many more than currently reported. I found if a bit depressing when a sport I have enjoyed playing and being involved with will be impacted by these reports as mothers put their foot down about boys NOT playing rugby.
It seems inevitable that more and more variations are going to affect the numbers playing this game. This one has far more potential than the scrum issues or any other issue rugby has faced. We are already struggling to get young guys to play the game at subbies level.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Isn't it saying the opposite?

There might be more minor neck injuries from tackles but the number of severe injuries is the same and there are more moderate neck injuries from scrums than tackles. I note that this is a tiny study and didn't feature any catastrophic spinal injuries (thankfully).

Given that there must be about 10 times the number of tackles per match than scrums that shows the risk of scrums to be much higher.

This is also in an era where scrums have been made a lot safer than they were in the past.
BH, you may be right but we see just as many scrum collapses and the front row forced up as before and that held true in subbies when I was involved about 4 years ago. Yet the number of injuries has gone down by all reports.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
BH, you may be right but we see just as many scrum collapses and the front row forced up as before and that held true in subbies when I was involved about 4 years ago. Yet the number of injuries has gone down by all reports.

I can't tell you the mechanics of why there are less injuries but I think it is largely about getting rid of the hit and slowing down the engagement.
 

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
Rugby league here we come.
Solved pretty easy by ensuring the defenders head is higher than their are and don't allow them to seal the tackled player.

That then gives the attacking team somewhere to safely to aim for in a clean out rather than a head.
 

LeCheese

Ken Catchpole (46)
Isn't it saying the opposite?

There might be more minor neck injuries from tackles but the number of severe injuries is the same and there are more moderate neck injuries from scrums than tackles. I note that this is a tiny study and didn't feature any catastrophic spinal injuries (thankfully).

Given that there must be about 10 times the number of tackles per match than scrums that shows the risk of scrums to be much higher.

This is also in an era where scrums have been made a lot safer than they were in the past.
Yeah it's a matter of relative risk vs cumulative risk - and as you said, the study's probably too small to draw any solid conclusions at that level. It's interesting to see the emerging trends nonetheless.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Yeah it's a matter of relative risk vs cumulative risk

This is essentially why we're seeing the change in the tackle height rules.

We're trying to eliminate the riskiest incidents in the sport.

Solved pretty easy by ensuring the defenders head is higher than their are and don't allow them to seal the tackled player.

That then gives the attacking team somewhere to safely to aim for in a clean out rather than a head.

Does that get rid of the jackal anyway?

It's very difficult to maintain a solid position where you are well balanced and can withstand a hit while keeping your hips above your shoulders but also be able to reach the ball on the ground.

Almost every jackal position involves the shoulders being lower than the hips.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
This is essentially why we're seeing the change in the tackle height rules.

We're trying to eliminate the riskiest incidents in the sport.



Does that get rid of the jackal anyway?

It's very difficult to maintain a solid position where you are well balanced and can withstand a hit while keeping your hips above your shoulders but also be able to reach the ball on the ground.

Almost every jackal position involves the shoulders being lower than the hips.
Just gotta be reeeeeeally flexible.
 

D-Box

Ron Walden (29)
Totally disagree. There were far less collapsed scrums back when front rows engaged themselves. Refs calling them in has caused nothing but issues
It was the period when refs started calling and you had the hit and chase that the issues were large. The new engament has reduced the hit and collapse which is where many issues were.

You also don't see that many scrums go down in amateur rugby where it is mostly a restart method. Pros are trying to bring it down.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
I don't have kids but if I did they'd be steered to touch rugby or ballroom dancing before 15s or 7s rugby. Hurts a bit to say it as I bled for the game growing up, but the cumulative risk of a permanent disability is not outweighed by the important benefits of the sport, namely fitness.

The social side of contributing to a club or team is trickier to replace, as it's still one of the unspoiled gems of rugby. Not sure you get that network of diverse individuals and families in a ballroom dancing studio...
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Mark Ella (57)
Whilst I'm not sure about the Ballroom Dancing part I do think Rugby will shrink over time due to the inherent risks and the growth of sports like Basketball.

I can definitely see a time not that far off where traditional Rugby Schools will only field 1/2 teams per age and potentially only a 1st, 2nd XV, 3rd XV at most. The growth of sports like Basketball aren't going to slow down and don't scare some parents. A number of Subbies clubs are already struggling and most players don't keep playing much after 24/25 with the social aspect not enough to draw them down.
 
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