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Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I can't wait to hear the answer to this:

An implied threat?

The NPF is a disgrace, I assume that the ARU think that this sneaky little device won't be as noticeable as the $200 team levy.

We now have the surreal situation whereby the amateur/junior part of the game is subsidising the professional/elite part of the game.

We all wait for the answer; what exactly do we get for this participation fee?
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Its funny how Australian schools are a major part of the ARU's pathway to Gold yet do don't contribute with a participation fee.


If School players were forced to be registered and pay the Big New Tax NPF, some people may realise that they are already paying such via their clubs and complain that they are being taxed twice.

The double accounting rort in the annual participation figures may get exposed for what it is.

Do School Rugby Coaches need to be Smart Rugby qualified as per the mandatory ARU requirement for club rugby?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Do School Rugby Coaches need to be Smart Rugby qualified as per the mandatory ARU requirement for club rugby?

Don't know the technical answer but the practical answer is "absolutely": the liability implications of not having an accredited coach would be fairly clear irrespective of the question of causation.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Yet many school games do not have other sensible (and in many cases mandated) game management protocols such as roping off the playing area, accredited Assistant Referees/Touch Judges, independent judiciaries, coaches outside the playing area, water runners/kicking tee runners/trainers not wearing readily identifiable clothing etc. The lower the age group, and the lower the grade within the age group, the more haphazard these measures seem to be.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Most of those things concern managing the game so that issues of behaviour do not arise.
Frankly, someone who learns anything form smart rugby must have a limited background in the game: its little more than OH&S for the weekend.
The schools have immediate and unequalled power to deal with bad behaviour and use them.
 

S'UP

Bill Watson (15)
Yet many school games do not have other sensible (and in many cases mandated) game management protocols such as roping off the playing area, accredited Assistant Referees/Touch Judges, independent judiciaries, coaches outside the playing area, water runners/kicking tee runners/trainers not wearing readily identifiable clothing etc. The lower the age group, and the lower the grade within the age group, the more haphazard these measures seem to be.

I attended a meeting where these protocols were discussed, there was a representative from schools there and before the presentation was 5 mins old they interjected and said "I want to make it very clear that schools will not be implementing any of these initiatives" to which the reply from the presenter was "yes, yes we know schools will do what they please" Come on ARU, NSW rugby actually I don't care anyone make some changes where we have one competition 6's to 15's everyone included, schools can still have their opens and 16's competition on Saturday.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Don't know the technical answer but the practical answer is "absolutely": the liability implications of not having an accredited coach would be fairly clear irrespective of the question of causation.
I know several young men that coached younger age groups for a variety of Schools,in their final year,or in their first years after School.
Some were paid,some were not,but none of them had any qualifications ,and none were ever asked if they had them.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Yet many school games do not have other sensible (and in many cases mandated) game management protocols such as roping off the playing area, accredited Assistant Referees/Touch Judges, independent judiciaries, coaches outside the playing area, water runners/kicking tee runners/trainers not wearing readily identifiable clothing etc. The lower the age group, and the lower the grade within the age group, the more haphazard these measures seem to be.

But these issues rarely arise at school matches. In fact it would make an interesting study as to why some people manage to behave themselves at school matches, but carry on like yobbs at club matches.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I attended a meeting where these protocols were discussed, there was a representative from schools there and before the presentation was 5 mins old they interjected and said "I want to make it very clear that schools will not be implementing any of these initiatives" to which the reply from the presenter was "yes, yes we know schools will do what they please" Come on ARU, NSW rugby actually I don't care anyone make some changes where we have one competition 6's to 15's everyone included, schools can still have their opens and 16's competition on Saturday.

In fairness, those issues don't arise in schools, so there's no real need to fix something that ain't broken. Nor are photo identification and registration sheets needed, because their purpose is to identify the players - that problem doesn't arise in schools as students are already enrolled and known.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Don't know the technical answer but the practical answer is "absolutely": the liability implications of not having an accredited coach would be fairly clear irrespective of the question of causation.

They should, I know a number of schools which invite presenters along and run the smart rugby at school.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
And just to clarify, I don't believe that schools or juniors should be paying a participation fee.

I'd suggest that the juniors need to get themselves out of the centralised registration process ASAP. In the past each club collected their own fees and had their own paper rego forms and clubs or districts looked after their own insurance. These matters were centralised to achieve savings, but now they're being used by the ARU as a revenue raising measure.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
But these issues rarely arise at school matches. In fact it would make an interesting study as to why some people manage to behave themselves at school matches, but carry on like yobbs at club matches.

Obviously you have never enjoyed the company of the Waverly old boys at Death Valley!
 

HighPlainsDrifter

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Sadly , it (language and disrespect) was manifest at the schoolboy level at Waverley around 2004/2007, I think late in 2007 Bondi got trashed as well , Waverley basketball however were disciplined , respectful and pretty good as I remember.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
The captains of industry stopped fawning over rugby when the ARU remained somewhat aloof and disengaged with the rugby community who I consider are more diverse than you think . The "Members Only" attitude is a turn off to many in this country (that includes many well heeled and connected souls ) and is a bi-product of a bygone amateur age . The impact of having Wallabies , coaches , rep players fronting up to state schools is investing in the future of the code . Wider engagement is necessary and advisable . If the game was nurtured and developed on a wider scale at grass roots your potential supporter base could easily double over time , that will get the sponsors back . After the first 15 visits to a corporate box it quite frankly gets a bit boring . I generally have more fun rubbing shoulders with the crowd and most corporates who I know are time poor and would rather spend time with their families and catch the game on Fox . If you think rugby is "High Brow" try going to a Shute Shield or NRC game ..great atmosphere , great people from all walks of life and cultures . Many Australians are open to Rugby .and also follow League,AFL,Soccer,Basketball,Netball,Motor Racing .it is not a club anymore .the sport does not have the carrying capacity to appeal to a narrow demographic , its not polo .

Great summary, and could possibly sit in various threads that are running at the moment.
 

Gary Owen III

Syd Malcolm (24)
The NPF is a disgrace, I assume that the ARU think that this sneaky little device won't be as noticeable as the $200 team levy.

We now have the surreal situation whereby the amateur/junior part of the game is subsidising the professional/elite part of the game.

We all wait for the answer; what exactly do we get for this participation fee?

If you do the sums this NPF is actually is the equivalent of nearly $500 per team. So a massive increase on last years $200 per team.

The average increase to clubs on their 2014 costs is 400% (to some of the clubs it is 800% - and these tend to be the poorer clubs)

At the same time the number of development officers in Sydney has halved - and they are basically on a user pays basis anyway.

Value?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
If you do the sums this NPF is actually is the equivalent of nearly $500 per team. So a massive increase on last years $200 per team.

The average increase to clubs on their 2014 costs is 400% (to some of the clubs it is 800% - and these tend to be the poorer clubs)

At the same time the number of development officers in Sydney has halved - and they are basically on a user pays basis anyway.

Value?

And the Hawker/Pulver apologists need to admit that Bill and Michael own the NPF and need to be held accountable for it.
 
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