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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Seriously if you believe Ivermectin is your go-to, then have at it.

I mean it's not like the big paper everyone references wasn't torn to bits by a medical student, right?

1630196205878.png
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Do we?
it’s been 100% a supply issue right up to now.

obviously the Federal Government would prefer everyone to blame the unvaccinated, and ignore their mistakes after mistakes.

I don't think there is much doubt that there has been a level of vaccine hesitancy until recent times. The big outbreak in Sydney and to a lesser degree in Melbourne have put paid to that though.

I saw polling over time that suggesting that there was a surprising amount of doubt among Australians about taking it, but that it's diminished:

I blame the poor messaging and flip-flopping over AZ for a significant part of the uncertainty. That's been a disaster. Here in WA I also blame complacency too. We've developed a siege mentality, which is just our normal chip on our shoulder about the rest of the country multiplied by several times.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Seriously if you believe Ivermectin is your go-to, then have at it.
Precisely. It should be an individual decision, not banned by government.
Japan, quite a conservative country, seems to be heading down the Ivermectin pathway.
Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman is recommending it to all doctors, for all Covid patients, based on their analysis of results in Africa.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
I think I need to re-tune my sarcasm... Or you just selectively took what you wanted for that post.

Japan, quite a conservative country, seems to be heading down the Ivermectin pathway.
Tokyo's Medical Assoc. Chairman is recommending it to all doctors, for all Covid patients, based on their analysis of results in Africa.

Here's a fact check:


Fact #1 : Dr. Haruo Ozaki Wanted Off-Label Use Of Ivermectin

Dr. Haruo Ozaki suggested that doctors be allowed to prescribe ivermectin and dexamethasone “off-label” at a press conference on 9 February 2021.

He said, “I would like the government to consider treatment at the level of the family doctor.

On 13 August 2021, he stated that “It is necessary to thoroughly study the clinical trials, but it seems that we are at the stage where it is okay to have the patient give an informed consent, and get permission to use it“.

Dr. Haruo Ozaki may be the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, but he can only make suggestions. He is not the Japanese Health Ministry and cannot approve ivermectin for use against COVID-19.

Fact #2 : Ivermectin Still NOT APPROVED In Japan For Use Again st COVID-19


As of 28 August 2021, Japan still does NOT allow Ivermectin to be used to treat or prevent COVID-19.

In their July 2021 edition of COVID-19 treatment guidelines, Ivermectin is still listed in the category of drugs whose “efficacy and safety have not been established“.

Only two drugs have been approved (as of 28 August 2021) by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare for use against COVID-19 in Japan :

  • Remdesivir
  • Baricitinib
It is therefore FALSE for anyone to claim that Japan approved ivermectin for use against COVID-19.

Fact #3 : Tokyo Metropolitan Government Does NOT Recommend Ivermectin

Even the Tokyo Metropolitan Government itself does NOT recommend the use of ivermectin.

In their latest 28 June 2021 FAQ on COVID-19, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government states :

There are currently no antiviral drugs that are known to be effective against the coronavirus disease, so treatment aims to relieve symptoms.
In other words, the same Metropolitan government that Dr. Haruo Ozaki advises did NOT accept his suggestion to allow the off-label use of ivermectin.

Fact #4 : Japan Health Ministry Warns Against Taking Ivermectin

On 21 February 2021, the Japanese Health Ministry warned against importing ivermectin for use against COVID-19.

The Health Ministry warned that even if people are taking ivermectin at their own risks, its side effects may not be covered by government relief.

“Generally speaking, no one guarantees what’s inside imported medicines. It’s extremely dangerous to take them on one’s own judgment,” said an official of the ministry’s Tuberculosis and Infectious Diseases Control Division.

Fact #5 : Kitasato University Still TRYING To Conduct Ivermectin Trial


Ivermectin was discovered by Satoshi Ōmura of the Kitasato University, and William Campbell of Merck.

So it comes to no surprise that the Kitasato University would try to conduct a clinical study to examine the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19.

The study, CORVETTE-01 (Study in COvid-19 Patients With iveRmectin), kicked off on 16 September 2020 with the aim of recruiting 240 participants.

However, as of the latest 24 June 2021 update, the study has not even recruited its target of 240 participants.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
And here's another link - https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20210824_09/

Note the reference to Merck stating there is no scientific basis for Ivermectin use in COVID-19 cases. If you dig a little further, you get to Merck's website:

February 4, 2021 11:45 am ET
...
  • No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
  • No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
  • A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.
Now, that was from February BUT several things stand out:

1) Any US Pharma company would be flogging to death a potential treatment in order to generate profits
2) US Pharma has a history of being a little sketchy when it comes to efficacy trials in order to make money
3) Merck have in no way moved on from the statement they made in February

So again: if you want to take Ivermectin, please know that you're ignoring all scientific advice to the contrary.

If you think you've seen evidence to disprove that, please check your sources - get at least up to the second knuckle - before spouting rubbish and misinforming others.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
All we have to do is convince a few of our fellow Australians to get vaccinated.
True Sully but as far as I can see, just as many people waiting for their shot to become available, probably more, than those who need to be convinced. I think there has been a case of some politicians shifting the blame for low vaccination rates onto the population rather than the inadequate supply arrangements.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
True Sully but as far as I can see, just as many people waiting for their shot to become available, probably more, than those who need to be convinced. I think there has been a case of some politicians shifting the blame for low vaccination rates onto the population rather than the inadequate supply arrangements.
Wouldn't be too sure about that. I've seen lots of data that available vaccine sessions are under-subscribed, and doses are being thrown away. By all means blame shithouse messaging from politicians as well as a lot of mouth-breathing journalists who fancy themselves as expert commentators rather than Pavlovian test-subjects. The appalling shit takes-downs on Astra Zeneca by all and sundry is almost criminal.

That said, the decisions made at the Federal level with regard to vaccine acquisition have proved to be very poor, which surprises few. So yes, supply arrangements can be rightly critiqued.

As well, I can say from first-hand experience among my own practice, 2 colleagues, and a good mate who is also a surgeon, we each have one staff member in our practice who is refusing to be vaccinated at all. Effectively making themselves unemployable in 7 days time in NSW.
The whining that will emanate from the un-vaccinated once some freedoms are granted will be epic.
 

Derpus

Tim Horan (67)
Do we?
it’s been 100% a supply issue right up to now.

obviously the Federal Government would prefer everyone to blame the unvaccinated, and ignore their mistakes after mistakes.
Anecdotal, but I personally know at least a few people who have been 'hesitant' and one straight up anti-vaxxer (its a plot to thin the herd, apparently).
 

Derpus

Tim Horan (67)
Wouldn't be too sure about that. I've seen lots of data that available vaccine sessions are under-subscribed, and doses are being thrown away. By all means blame shithouse messaging from politicians as well as a lot of mouth-breathing journalists who fancy themselves as expert commentators rather than Pavlovian test-subjects. The appalling shit takes-downs on Astra Zeneca by all and sundry is almost criminal.

That said, the decisions made at the Federal level with regard to vaccine acquisition have proved to be very poor, which surprises few. So yes, supply arrangements can be rightly critiqued.

As well, I can say from first-hand experience among my own practice, 2 colleagues, and a good mate who is also a surgeon, we each have one staff member in our practice who is refusing to be vaccinated at all. Effectively making themselves unemployable in 7 days time in NSW.
The whining that will emanate from the un-vaccinated once some freedoms are granted will be epic.
It's hardly surprising no one wants AZ when the ATAGI advice for 6 months was 'we don't recommend you take AZ' and then they suddenly switch it to 'oh yeah nah turns out AZ is fine lol, we forgot to factor the risk of an outbreak into our assessment'.

Or at least, that's how it was reported.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Anecdotal, but I personally know at least a few people who have been 'hesitant' and one straight up anti-vaxxer (its a plot to thin the herd, apparently).
Anti-vaxxers……
Well, if they are the ones lost to the herd, it can only lift the quality of our breeding stock moving forward….
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
I wonder where we'd be if the "I've done MY research and this smallpox vaccine doesn't seem safe..." people got any kind of sway back in the day.
 

Tex

John Thornett (49)
I reckon the hard fringe of antivax aren't for turning.

But the many who might be vacillating or waiting for an MRNA shot might find their preferences radically shift once we reach that 70%-80% threshold. The fact remains that both Victoria and NSW's outbreaks, while significant locally, are minuscule on the global scale. There just isn't the burning platform - yet - for people to understand the potential for this virus to upend (and end!) lives.

My feeling is that hesitancy will rapidly diminish a) once there is a lucrative carrot in the form of advanced freedoms over unvaxxed, and b) when fluffybunnys starts dying from this thing in greater numbers.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
I reckon the hard fringe of antivax aren't for turning.

But the many who might be vacillating or waiting for an MRNA shot might find their preferences radically shift once we reach that 70%-80% threshold. The fact remains that both Victoria and NSW's outbreaks, while significant locally, are minuscule on the global scale. There just isn't the burning platform - yet - for people to understand the potential for this virus to upend (and end!) lives.

My feeling is that hesitancy will rapidly diminish a) once there is a lucrative carrot in the form of advanced freedoms over unvaxxed, and b) when fluffybunnys starts dying from this thing in greater numbers.
OK - so I'm not an anti-vaxxer by ny means but I do understand the hesitancy of people who feel like they are being forced to have a drug put in their bodies so they can go back to leading the lives they were before all of this.

The right to be able to work, to watch a movie, to travel, to go to a restaurant etc is going to be dependent on whether they have allowed this intrusion. Again, I'm not anti-vax - I've already had my first shot - but I do understand people being wary, particularly indigenous people and some minority groups. A lot of these people have good, historic reasons to be doubtful about government not having an agenda.

It would be good to see something similar to Q&A where anti-vax questions are put to the leading doctors, epidemiologists etc to put to bed the questions and uncertainties that people have around the new Covid vaccine. There is so much misinformation online and on social media and there doesn't seem to be a specific, targeted campaign to counter it. Perhaps there already is and I haven't seen it but the condescending, mocking tone that I've seen a lot of online doesn't help.
 

Derpus

Tim Horan (67)
It would be good to see something similar to Q&A where anti-vax questions are put to the leading doctors, epidemiologists etc to put to bed the questions and uncertainties that people have around the new Covid vaccine. There is so much misinformation online and on social media and there doesn't seem to be a specific, targeted campaign to counter it. Perhaps there already is and I haven't seen it but the condescending, mocking tone that I've seen a lot of online doesn't help.
The issue with anti-vax is that they refuse to defer to expertise in this one discrete area of their lives. It's completely irrational. A Q&A with experts won't help.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
The issue with anti-vax is that they refuse to defer to expertise in this one discrete area of their lives. It's completely irrational. A Q&A with experts won't help.

I think you'll find that it isn't just this area of their lives - other "new" issues like climate change, LGBTI+ rights, immigration, etc generally fall into the same groove as the anti-vax aka pro-death people.

The issue is there is no speaking to some of them without sounding like you're talking down to them, because victim or persecution complex is also hardwired into some people, particularly those with lower intellect or education levels. Believing in conspiracies or going against the grain is what makes them feel important.

When you have to pick between government conspiracy and government stupidity, always take the latter. It is far easier for governments to just screw up, hence the mixed messages on various vaccines.

Anecdotally, I've seen some people "wary" of the vaccination as a way to get back to normal, who will happily shove a stack of needles in their veins to take an overseas holiday or would drop a handful of pingers back in the day. Suddenly they've decided they care about about is in a needle? The chances of you dying from any of the vaccines is an order of magnitude lower than popping that eccy your mate Davo bought from a pill presser who never washed his hands after taking a shit.

Give me strength...
 
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