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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Tex

Jim Lenehan (48)
OK - so I'm not an anti-vaxxer by ny means but I do understand the hesitancy of people who feel like they are being forced to have a drug put in their bodies so they can go back to leading the lives they were before all of this.

The right to be able to work, to watch a movie, to travel, to go to a restaurant etc is going to be dependent on whether they have allowed this intrusion. Again, I'm not anti-vax - I've already had my first shot - but I do understand people being wary, particularly indigenous people and some minority groups. A lot of these people have good, historic reasons to be doubtful about government not having an agenda.

It would be good to see something similar to Q&A where anti-vax questions are put to the leading doctors, epidemiologists etc to put to bed the questions and uncertainties that people have around the new Covid vaccine. There is so much misinformation online and on social media and there doesn't seem to be a specific, targeted campaign to counter it. Perhaps there already is and I haven't seen it but the condescending, mocking tone that I've seen a lot of online doesn't help.
That's fair, but i'm definitely making a distinction between the rusted on ANTIVAX conspiracists who aren't going to shift, and those with rational disquiet about vaccinations and their impact on personal liberty.

My feeling is that people in the second group will shift their thinking once the virus is established at an endemic level.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
The issue with anti-vax is that they refuse to defer to expertise in this one discrete area of their lives. It's completely irrational. A Q&A with experts won't help.
It's not for hard core anti-vaxxers. It's for people who are starting to look at the stuff anti-vaxxers say and promote because they have concerns with THIS vaccine. Hell, I wasn't that keen to get it myself originally
When you have to pick between government conspiracy and government stupidity, always take the latter. It is far easier for governments to just screw up, hence the mixed messages on various vaccines.

Anecdotally, I've seen some people "wary" of the vaccination as a way to get back to normal, who will happily shove a stack of needles in their veins to take an overseas holiday or would drop a handful of pingers back in the day. Suddenly they've decided they care about about is in a needle?

Give me strength.
Tell the stolen generation that there is nothing to fear from government conspiracy. The dawn raid victims. People who were forcibly sterilised.

The difference between taking shots to go overseas or taking pingers is that individuals got to choose that, rightly or wrongly, for themselves. Now, they are looking at having certain freedoms and choices taken away from them unless they have the vaccine.
 

Derpus

John Eales (66)
The difference between taking shots to go overseas or taking pingers is that individuals got to choose that, rightly or wrongly, for themselves. Now, they are looking at having certain freedoms and choices taken away from them unless they have the vaccine.
I actually think this is a good point. I reckon conspiracy theory is closely linked to control, or lack thereof, over ones life.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Tell the stolen generation that there is nothing to fear from government conspiracy. The dawn raid victims. People who were forcibly sterilised.

You're over-egging it based on a very specific set of people, whose longstanding persecution by the government is documented and understood, if poorly.

Do you honestly think that community elders are going to turn down health care opportunities? They've been utterly shafted in the past on health support, and know it, so they're promoting the vaccine to ensure their at-risk people, particularly remote communities, aren't left stranded when they can't get enough transport to ICU:


Leaving indigenous communities aside: give me a serious reason that wage-earning white bogans should fear any sort of government conspiracy and therefore not get the vaccination? They're the core swing voter that governments want on their side to win elections.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
I actually think this is a good point. I reckon conspiracy theory is closely linked to control, or lack thereof, over ones life.

Yep. And that's a point I agree with you and Bullrush on - the difference in the past is these people would trust governments because they weren't up to the tits in skewed media reports every day, and it was more about policy on the ground than talking heads on a social media stream.

Being able to separate vaccines from government is now impossible. We plug our kids with MMR before they can walk and nobody has a problem, because that's just the way it is. When you've got MPs or prominent figures telling us that it's just a flu, is where the problem begins.

On a personal note: I had a serious flu several years ago. 2 weeks in bed. Could barely function. If COVID is anything like that, give me ten doses of whatever you have.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
You're over-egging it based on a very specific set of people, whose longstanding persecution by the government is documented and understood, if poorly.

Do you honestly think that community elders are going to turn down health care opportunities? They've been utterly shafted in the past on health support, and know it, so they're promoting the vaccine to ensure their at-risk people, particularly remote communities, aren't left stranded when they can't get enough transport to ICU:


Leaving indigenous communities aside: give me a serious reason that wage-earning white bogans should fear any sort of government conspiracy and therefore not get the vaccination? They're the core swing voter that governments want on their side to win elections.
I'm not sure why "wage-earning white bogans" wouldn't get vaccinated. You should ask one.

Again, I'm not saying this vaccine is bad or anything like that - I'm just saying I understand the people who don't trust this vaccine or the government and forcing them, mocking them, being condescending or down-playing their concerns by telling them they are 'over-egging' it is not a great approach.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I reckon the hard fringe of antivax aren't for turning.

But the many who might be vacillating or waiting for an MRNA shot might find their preferences radically shift once we reach that 70%-80% threshold. The fact remains that both Victoria and NSW's outbreaks, while significant locally, are minuscule on the global scale. There just isn't the burning platform - yet - for people to understand the potential for this virus to upend (and end!) lives.

My feeling is that hesitancy will rapidly diminish a) once there is a lucrative carrot in the form of advanced freedoms over unvaxxed, and b) when fluffybunnys starts dying from this thing in greater numbers.
I'm already seeing people change their opinion on getting the shot once their income gets threatened.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
I'm not sure why "wage-earning white bogans" wouldn't get vaccinated. You should ask one.

Again, I'm not saying this vaccine is bad or anything like that - I'm just saying I understand the people who don't trust this vaccine or the government and forcing them, mocking them, being condescending or down-playing their concerns by telling them they are 'over-egging' it is not a great approach.
True, but anyone following an "ideology", whether it be based in science, belief, faith or whatever tends to take this approach, to some degree. The science behind vaccination is well-established, extensive, and peer-reviewed, so allying it to Govt conspiracy theories is a stretch.
I therefore think it is quite reasonable to put restrictions upon what people can do if they choose not to be vaccinated - it remains a choice. I object that I now have to significantly increase my wage outlay because my practice manager refuses to vaccinate and I need to employ another staff member to cover part of her work, in a time when my business revenue is down 70%. I'd call that selfish. She's not volunteering to take a partial pay-cut despite knowing she will be doing significantly less work. Why should I have my life made significantly more difficult because of someone else's personal choices?
If people make a choice, they can live with the consequences of that choice.
 

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Why should I have my life made significantly more difficult because of someone else's personal choices?
If people make a choice, they can live with the consequences of that choice.
Bingo.

Professor John Dwyer (Immunologist) wrote a superb article on the ups and downs of virus and vaccines and lockdowns etc.


Favourite bit:

For those who are hesitant, all sorts of inducements are being discussed from cash payments to lottery tickets but surely Australia should follow the example of many countries in mandating vaccination for various occupations. If vaccination is an essential criteria for your job, you are free to accept or reject a position. We have a surprising number of health professionals working in our health system who have had to be deployed away from the front line as they will not be vaccinated.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
Bingo.

Professor John Dwyer (Immunologist) wrote a superb article on the ups and downs of virus and vaccines and lockdowns etc.


Favourite bit:
What about when vaccine is not critical to your job eg. bar tenders and checkout workers?
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
How is a vaccine not critical to a bar tender? Indoor locations like bars and restaurants are the worst locations for transmission.
Anything and everything transmits this disease now. Going anywhere where there are other people is a risk.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Anything and everything transmits this disease now. Going anywhere where there are other people is a risk.

We're very likely moving to a world where only vaccinated people can enjoy hospitality venues so it seems pretty likely staff will need to be vaccinated too.

An unvaccinated person poses a higher risk to everyone (but particularly themselves) because they are more likely to catch it and more likely to be shedding a higher viral load than a vaccinated person.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
We're very likely moving to a world where only vaccinated people can enjoy hospitality venues so it seems pretty likely staff will need to be vaccinated too.

An unvaccinated person poses a higher risk to everyone (but particularly themselves) because they are more likely to catch it and more likely to be shedding a higher viral load than a vaccinated person.
And this is exactly my point.
People are being told that to just earn a living - and not a fucken great one at that - will be subject to them having them giving up their rights about what they put in their body.

Their argument to the point above is that if you have the vaccine and I don’t, then you should be safe.
 

Derpus

John Eales (66)
And this is exactly my point.
People are being told that to just earn a living - and not a fucken great one at that - will be subject to them having them giving up their rights about what they put in their body.

Their argument to the point above is that if you have the vaccine and I don’t, then you should be safe.
We have rights about what we put in our body? In Aus at least we have next to no codified rights.

We certainly don't have free right to choose what goes in.
 
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