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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Pfitzy

David Wilson (68)
Interested to see how the British analysis compares to what we'll get, given the differences in population density and approach to lockdowns.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Also when you see how few ICU beds we have in Australia, I don't really want them full of anti-vaxxers when they had the choice.
Yeah - let anti-vaxxers go where they like. But if you don't have a valid reason not to have a vaccine you aren't covered by Medicare.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
I've been recovering from surgery at my parents' place and they still have 70yo friends from educated wealthy families holding out for the mRNA vaccines.

Meanwhile at the Exhibition Building there was a 2 min wait for AZ shots, versus 1h+ for Pfizer.
Based on Dan's comments today, if you are AZ recommended that Pfizer queue will be about four months.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
We now know the main benefit of a vax is to minimise symptoms when you do catch the Wuhan Flu.
The vax doesn't stop transmission. Reduce chances of spreading and catching - yes. But stop? No.
Discriminating against people on vax status is wrong for so many reasons.
So it helps reduce transmission. Pretty important I would have thought, especially to those who can't be vaccinated. We basically stopped society to stop people dying of this thing. If people won't do their bit and get vaxxed why don't they just fuck off out of society while the rest of us get on with life finally. We stop kids attending childcare if they aren't vaccinated. Why is this different.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Yeah - let anti-vaxxers go where they like. But if you don't have a valid reason not to have a vaccine you aren't covered by Medicare.

Derp - it doesn't work. Not in a society like ours. We just need to get the vax rate to a point we have confidence that our health system can cope. Everyone thinking "let it rip" and let the unvaccinated take the consequence of their own issues - I get the irritation but we should probably think about the ramifications.

Once the hospitals are smothered, the first thing is elective surgery is in no man's land. "Elective" is a pretty large category - my wife had treatment for a brain tumour delayed by months, then swapped too a less sophisticated surgery, at the start of the Covid. (All good now.) And that was private health.

Then wait for ICU to be taken up with the unvaxed:
If your next door neighbour is bitten by a snake. Cant be treated.
If your son has a car crash. Can't be treated.
If your mother has a heart attack. Can't be treated.
A toddler swallows poison/pills? Can't be treated.

Our ICUs save a lot of lives but would be otherwise distracted. The impact is not just to the unvaxed. It is to all of us, the whole society is being held to ransom by these troglodytes.

I'm completely comfortable with mandating here. Wont happen of course, hence a plan to "let it rip - when we reach a controllable situation". Sooner we get there the better. Vic and NSW will be the first to achieve. Well done you.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Based on Dan's comments today, if you are AZ recommended that Pfizer queue will be about four months.

What happens if the vaccine gets approved for 5-11 year olds in that time?

What happens if we decide that people who got vaccinated back in April/May/June need a booster shot by then?

There's real potential that the queue will grow faster than they will get to the front of it.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
Derp - it doesn't work. Not in a society like ours. We just need to get the vax rate to a point we have confidence that our health system can cope. Everyone thinking "let it rip" and let the unvaccinated take the consequence of their own issues - I get the irritation but we should probably think about the ramifications.

Once the hospitals are smothered, the first thing is elective surgery is in no man's land. "Elective" is a pretty large category - my wife had treatment for a brain tumour delayed by months, then swapped too a less sophisticated surgery, at the start of the Covid. (All good now.) And that was private health.

Then wait for ICU to be taken up with the unvaxed:
If your next door neighbour is bitten by a snake. Cant be treated.
If your son has a car crash. Can't be treated.
If your mother has a heart attack. Can't be treated.
A toddler swallows poison/pills? Can't be treated.

Our ICUs save a lot of lives but would be otherwise distracted. The impact is not just to the unvaxed. It is to all of us, the whole society is being held to ransom by these troglodytes.

I'm completely comfortable with mandating here. Wont happen of course, hence a plan to "let it rip - when we reach a controllable situation". Sooner we get there the better. Vic and NSW will be the first to achieve. Well done you.
It was largely tongue in cheek, but to clarify, i meant those unvaccinated without a valid reason should be denied medical treatment unless they pay for it.
 
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stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
What happens if the vaccine gets approved for 5-11 year olds in that time?

What happens if we decide that people who got vaccinated back in April/May/June need a booster shot by then?

There's real potential that the queue will grow faster than they will get to the front of it.
And the virus will be out in the community, with them being the most at risk, despite facing the lowest version of the already tiny risk from AZ. Meanwhile the only ones who still aren't eligible for vaccination are their small grand kids, who while bearing a lower risk of serious illness, are relying on the rest of the community to protect them by getting vaccinated. But hey, the AZ eligible don't owe us anything, not like we shut the country down to protect them early last year or anything.

I'm angry as a comfortably self-employed 40 year old. Can't imagine what a 25 year old in insecure employment and trying to live off government payments thinks.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
I think the previous difficulty in assessing the risk was that while the risk of dying from Covid was obviously higher than the risk of dying from AZ, if you had it. The odds of actually getting the virus were low (still low now - but much higher).

The ATAGI advice failed to factor in the risk of an outbreak hence the recommendation not to get AZ. ATAGI (and someone correct me if i am out of line here) concluded that because there was no outbreak there was no chance of getting Covid - this assumption allows for the conclusion AZ presents a higher risk.

Obviously at no point have we been at 0 chance of getting Covid, so it seems a pretty wild assumption.

Politicians have been hanging their hat 'on the science' since Covid began, so i personally think the mistake above is the primary cause of vaccine hesitancy outside of the existence of the blood clot risk.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
I think the previous difficulty in assessing the risk was that while the risk of dying from Covid was obviously higher than the risk of dying from AZ, if you had it. The odds of actually getting the virus were low (still low now - but much higher).

The ATAGI advice failed to factor in the risk of an outbreak hence the recommendation not to get AZ. ATAGI (and someone correct me if i am out of line here) concluded that because there was no outbreak there was no chance of getting Covid - this assumption allows for the conclusion AZ presents a higher risk.

Obviously at no point have we been at 0 chance of getting Covid, so it seems a pretty wild assumption.

Politicians have been hanging their hat 'on the science' since Covid began, so i personally think the mistake above is the primary cause of vaccine hesitancy outside of the existence of the blood clot risk.

ATAGI unmitigated error. Australia has been paying the price since. A really bad mis-read in tandem with AZ being used successfully all around the world. Plenty of people pointing the finger at the likes of ScoMo - but ATAGI has heaps to answer here.
 
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