• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

COVID-19 Stuff Here

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
Yes.

Companies exist to make profit. Big Pharma in the US has done it occasionally in a way considered unethical, but that is more a result of their bloated, misdirected health system and political influence than any inherent evil.

People in jobs take home an income because companies make profit. And they use it to drive an economy - which in Australia is largely stagnating because we're locked down.

My work place pays for the flu shot every year, because they recognise that it is far more cost effective for me to be at work or home with a sniffle instead of laid out for 2 weeks not contributing (as happened a few years back).

Simple economics.
Yeah - so they do make a profit from selling covid vaccines. Wouldn't be great for them if we had to have one every 6-12 months. I think you give these companies far too much credit - they have no issue with being unethical if they can get away with it.
 

Rob42

Trevor Allan (34)
Yeah - so they do make a profit from selling covid vaccines. Wouldn't be great for them if we had to have one every 6-12 months. I think you give these companies far too much credit - they have no issue with being unethical if they can get away with it.
AstraZeneca are selling their vaccine at cost, not making a profit from it, and, ironically, probably copping some brand damage from the clot hype.
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Again I don’t really see the logic here. The vaccine works. In real life and in multiple non pharma sponsored studies.
Someone has to make it, profit or not.
Lots of industries (non pharma) have also made a fortune out of this pandemic. Others have gone under.
Luck of the draw.
But it doesn’t change the data or the need.
On a more sombre note the data from highly vaccinated countries still shows the need for intermittent lockdowns to keep numbers under control and the hospitals functional so the magic 80% is not going to return us to life as usual. Not for a long time yet. It’s just a pathway to less deaths, less ICU admissions, less hospitals being overwhelmed, less health care workers chucking in the towel, and hopefully less stringent and shorter lockdowns.
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
Again I don’t really see the logic here. The vaccine works. In real life and in multiple non pharma sponsored studies.
Someone has to make it, profit or not.
Lots of industries (non pharma) have also made a fortune out of this pandemic. Others have gone under.
Luck of the draw.
But it doesn’t change the data or the need.
On a more sombre note the data from highly vaccinated countries still shows the need for intermittent lockdowns to keep numbers under control and the hospitals functional so the magic 80% is not going to return us to life as usual. Not for a long time yet. It’s just a pathway to less deaths, less ICU admissions, less hospitals being overwhelmed, less health care workers chucking in the towel, and hopefully less stringent and shorter lockdowns.
Right. The wealthiest people on the planet saw their wealth double last year during Covid lockdowns and interruptions. The issue with the economy isn't that we don't have enough - it's purely about where is all the money/resource going?

"The vaccine works" until it doesn't. And then you have to keep getting booster shots.

Part of the data that we should be looking at is how much these companies make from selling us a product that we realistically cannot refuse. Pfizer and Moderna are making huge money from Covid vaccines. AZ and J&J have said they won't sell the vaccine at a profit while the pandemic remains. Which won't be an issue if the pandemic officially ends but we are still required to get on-going jabs.
 

Rob42

Trevor Allan (34)
And the fact that Big Pharma makes money from a pandemic means there will be an influx of investment in vaccines, which is a very good thing. Big Pharma has spent the last few decades focusing on the lifestyle diseases of the West, because that’s where the money is. Better vaccines will make a far bigger positive impact on the world.
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
I feel sorry for those whose livelihoods have been jeopardised but why begrudge those who benefit from it?
Provided it’s done ethically then good for them and their shareholders.
It’s up to government policy to work out how they are going to support those most affected.
That’s capitalism folks.
 

Teh Other Dave

Alan Cameron (40)
Right. The wealthiest people on the planet saw their wealth double last year during Covid lockdowns and interruptions. The issue with the economy isn't that we don't have enough - it's purely about where is all the money/resource going?

"The vaccine works" until it doesn't. And then you have to keep getting booster shots.

Part of the data that we should be looking at is how much these companies make from selling us a product that we realistically cannot refuse. Pfizer and Moderna are making huge money from Covid vaccines. AZ and J&J have said they won't sell the vaccine at a profit while the pandemic remains. Which won't be an issue if the pandemic officially ends but we are still required to get on-going jabs.
Are you suggesting that manufacturers of ventilators should not turn a profit? Should Mercedes and Ford not make money from ambulances?
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
And the fact that Big Pharma makes money from a pandemic means there will be an influx of investment in vaccines, which is a very good thing. Big Pharma has spent the last few decades focusing on the lifestyle diseases of the West, because that’s where the money is. Better vaccines will make a far bigger positive impact on the world.
Can you invest in vaccines? Or do you just invest in the company who then decides what to do with your money?

Public money plays a huge part in vaccine development - as it does in a lot of medical R&D. So we fund the development while Pfizer takes the profits :rolleyes:
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
I feel sorry for those whose livelihoods have been jeopardised but why begrudge those who benefit from it?
Provided it’s done ethically then good for them and their shareholders.
It’s up to government policy to work out how they are going to support those most affected.
That’s capitalism folks.
Begrudge? Surely it just about them playing their part. And who decides what is ethical? We have seen millions of dollars doled out in JobKeeper to companies like Harvey Norman who made huge profits during Covid.

I mean, if we are all forced to take vaccines and give up our bodily autonomy and rights for the 'greater good', why can we not also expect the wealthiest people to give up at least part of the huge windfalls Covid has provided them for the 'greater good'?
 

Bullrush

John Thornett (49)
Are you suggesting that manufacturers of ventilators should not turn a profit? Should Mercedes and Ford not make money from ambulances?
If healthy people are forced to have ventilators or their own ambulance then yeah - I would suggest that they shouldn't make profits. Or at least not huge ones.

Particularly if public money is used to help make them.
 

Rob42

Trevor Allan (34)
Can you invest in vaccines? Or do you just invest in the company who then decides what to do with your money?

Public money plays a huge part in vaccine development - as it does in a lot of medical R&D. So we fund the development while Pfizer takes the profits :rolleyes:
You can invest in the companies - if they're public, they'll have a published strategy of where they invest their money, how much into R&D and into which areas. If you'd like to only invest in the projects that will lead to a successful vaccine, I'm sure they'd love to know how to pick those.

Or if you like, you can set up your own company and pitch to the research organisations and universities who do a lot of the early-stage research, to licence their ideas - that way you'll get straight to the source. Mind you, you'll need to outbid the Big Pharma companies who have the skills in commercialising these ideas. And any half-decent research organisation or university has a Business Development team who make sure that they are well reimbursed for their ideas. Yes, those organisations are publically funded, and rightly so, but if their IP leads to a pandemic-busting vaccine, they'll be well compensated.

Of course Big Pharma wants to make money - but I'm happy if they now think there's more money in vaccines, rather than developing a better Viagra.
 

dru

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Done.
It’s an important thread
Don’t take the bait

It's an important topic. And it is here not in the rugby forums which is good.

But endless pointless debates with determined anti, well whatever, those discussions are pointless. Time to close.
 

cyclopath

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Staff member
Can’t question the motives of big pharma?

hmmmm OK
You can. You have. Several times. Under forum rules, making the same point repeatedly is not on. So let it go. As can everyone else who has also made their point repeatedly. It's tedious to keep making the same statement with different syntax.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Jason Little (69)
Auckland moving to Level 3 for at least two weeks as of midnight tomorrow meaning more businesses can re-open which will help free up the currently constipated supply chain & Auks can get their KFC or Maccas fix without having to break the law. The Auckland border has been moved fractionally to take in a small community where three people have tested positive after one of them was bailed from Mount Eden prison to his home in that area. Rest of NZ stays at L2 but indoor gatherings can now have max 100 people rather than 50. Taking a risk but lockdown is costing a bomb & an increasing number of people are simply ignoring the regs.

Rugby-wise nothing much changes, the three Aux-based NPC teams still can't train until they're also at L2.
 
Top