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COVID-19 Stuff Here

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
Isnt it just that you can still transmit it and wearing a mask further reduces the risk of transmission.

I believe opening up is predicated on keeping softer measures that limit transmission (masks, distancing etc) in place.

The pub rules are quite baffling

Picture sitting on stools in a loud happy pub (Dove and Olive), but to stand up and buy a beer, whack your mask on because it appears the latest variant is only dangerous to those 5ft high or taller
 
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Derpus

John Eales (66)
The pub rules are quite baffling

Picture sitting on stools in a loud happy pub (Dove and Olive), but to stand up and buy a beer, whack your mask on because it appears the latest variant is only dangerous to those 5ft high or taller
Went to the pub on Friday and if there were rules I wouldn't have known what they were.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Gregan (70)
130K vaccinations yesterday on what the Gov called "Super Saturday" as part of their campaign to get to a 90% vaccination rate by Christmas. But because only 39K of the vaxes were first doses it seems to me we're gunna fall well short & it's time to stop playing nice with those who don't want to get vaccinated: time to make it very clear to them that if they choose not to get the free & safe vaccine they can't expect an ICU bed when they get sick (84% of our Delta cases weren't vaccinated incl every ICU case & the lone fatality to date). Time to follow Italy's lead & say if you want a public-interactive job you need to get jabbed or get tested weekly at your expense, miss two Tests & you're fired. Several major employers, mine included, have announced that if Gov goes down that road they're more than happy to comply.

Meanwhile a thousand or so idiots turned up to a second rally in Auckland Domain yesterday to protest the lockdown which they're almost certainly prolonging by staging these events. Police have said they'll charge the organisers but IMO those gathered should've been given 15 minutes to clear the area & then the capsicum spray should've come out.
 

Dctarget

Steve Williams (59)
^ 58 dead in the last seven days seems a lot.


As does 151 in ICU & 94 on ventilators.

None of them are vaccinated though, it’s starting to wear thin. I’m not sure what else we can do, also I don’t think the lockdown is really doing much.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Gregan (70)
^ sounds like Vic Gov are doing what I'd like our Gov to do, only difference being we're still in a position to avoid what Vic is currently going through, at least for now - plenty of experts warning that we could very quickly find ourselves deep in the shit if we relax restrictions too fast. I'm glad you're coming out of lockdown, I just hope it doesn't make a horrible situation even worse.

Edit: I'm a bit torn over the ethics of letting Covid run rampant among the unvaccinated, logically it's the right call IMO but on the other hand govs do have a responsibility to save people from their own stupidity/ ignorance even (esp?) when it's wilful. Duty of Care & all that. We have a coupla anti-vaxxers at work & whereas I avoid them as much as possible I'd still hate to see either of them or their families get sick.
 
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Derpus

John Eales (66)
^ sounds like Vic Gov are doing what I'd like our Gov to do, only difference being we're still in a position to avoid what Vic is currently going through, at least for now - plenty of experts warning that we could very quickly find ourselves deep in the shit if we relax restrictions too fast. I'm glad you're coming out of lockdown, I just hope it doesn't make a horrible situation even worse.

Edit: I'm a bit torn over the ethics of letting Covid run rampant among the unvaccinated, logically it's the right call IMO but on the other hand govs do have a responsibility to save people from their own stupidity/ ignorance even (esp?) when it's wilful. Duty of Care & all that. We have a coupla anti-vaxxers at work & whereas I avoid them as much as possible I'd still hate to see either of them or their families get sick.
They have to balance their duty to protect people from themselves against the harm keeping an entire state in indefinite lockdown would cause.

Its a no brainer.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
A powerful statement from Deputy President Dean of the Fair Work Commission, who has come out strongly against mandatory Covid vaccinations, is here.
TL;DR - "a democratic approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy, and therefore increasing voluntary vaccination uptake, lies in better education."
And a powerful retort by the NSW Supreme Court. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...accination-mandate-spray-20211018-p590x2.html

"An industrial commissioner who railed against vaccination mandates as “medical apartheid” in a recent unfair dismissal case has been criticised by a senior NSW Supreme Court judge, who says she descended into politicking and made claims without evidence."

Justice Beech-Jones said “Political pamphlets have their place but I doubt that the Fair Work Commission is one of them,” he said. “They are not authorities for legal propositions.”
 

fatprop

Jason Little (69)
Staff member
And a powerful retort by the NSW Supreme Court. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...accination-mandate-spray-20211018-p590x2.html

"An industrial commissioner who railed against vaccination mandates as “medical apartheid” in a recent unfair dismissal case has been criticised by a senior NSW Supreme Court judge, who says she descended into politicking and made claims without evidence."

Justice Beech-Jones said “Political pamphlets have their place but I doubt that the Fair Work Commission is one of them,” he said. “They are not authorities for legal propositions.”
We probably should just tie down and inject those who chose not to get vaccinated and take any autonomy in medical decisions away from the individual for the public good

(I see the above as the extreme, so we instead will make the recalcitrants unable to function in society, all to make the final lot comply. I just don't see the value in the force required. NSW will have over 90% vaccinated, the societal cost of getting that last lot done maybe to high IMHO)
 
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Derpus

John Eales (66)
We probably should just tie down and inject those who chose not to get vaccinated and take any autonomy in medical decisions away from the individual for the public good

(I see the above as the extreme, so we instead will make the recalcitrants unable to function in society, all to make the final lot comply. I just don't see the value in the force required. NSW will have over 90% vaccinated, the societal cost of getting that last lot done maybe to high IMHO)
We obviously shouldn't. But equally, there is no reason why a person making a conscious decision which exposes others to greater risk of harm shouldn't be excluded from participating in certain aspects of society as a consequence.

(accepting the proposition that lower vaccination rates result in higher transmission rates).

People all too often conflate the freedom to do something as meaning freedom from consequence for choosing that action.
 
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stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
We probably should just tie down and inject those who chose not to get vaccinated and take any autonomy in medical decisions away from the individual for the public good
No-one is being forced to get vaccinated. They just have to make a choice on how they function within society. That may be deciding between a vaccine and a job in the near term.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
Sorry, but that is force
You can be unvaccinated but you can't work in certain fields - it's a personal choice.

People choosing to not vaccinate during a pandemic risk both their lives and the lives of others. It is a public health/safety measure to prevent people from potentially hurting themselves and others. Governments make laws to protect the many from the few. Take away the anti-vaxxers who believe that the vaccine will control their mind, is unsafe, do their own research etc, what you are left with are the selfish who dont understand that their rights also come with a responsbility to the rest of society. In this case the responsbility is to pitch in by preventing the hospitals being clogged up with un-necessary, unvaccinated covid patients.
 
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