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COVID-19 Stuff Here

waiopehu oldboy

Jason Little (69)
^ Woolworths' NZ operation looking at following suit but have to go through a process to justify it as a H&S issue which I doubt will be difficult. The Union representing a fair chunk of that workforce has already said they support the move to full vaccination.

Other major employers have already started the H&S assessment process & most of the rest are by the sounds of it waiting for Gov to make it possible for that process to be fast-tracked if they're not going to start mandating on an industry-by-industry basis which is my preferred option & rapidly becoming an overwhelmingly majority view.
 

Dctarget

Steve Williams (59)
Kinda funny that the countries that don't need to do mandatory vaccines are the ones that will and the countries that do need it like Poland, Russia etc won't.
 

Derpus

Rod McCall (65)
I came across this today.
It estimated the risk of infection is slashed by approximately 67 per cent in people given two doses of Pfizer or AstraZeneca's jabs. (today's Daily Mail Australia).
It was part of an article raising the results of a British research study by the Office for National Statistics showing that recovering from Covid offers just as good protection as getting two doses of any vaccine.
Of course it fucking does.

A vaccine is literally a weakened or altered form of the virus, introduced into your body to trigger the immune response and the development of antibodies which help you fight the virus should you get it again (thank you year 10 biology). Actually getting the virus will obviously have the same effect.

The benefit of a vaccine is that you don't need to get sick or risk dying to generate the immunity.

Fucking hell.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Jason Little (69)
I've felt for a while now that there's been a major shift in public opinion from "we're all in this together" to more of a "why should we the vaccinated majority have to stay in varying degrees of lockdown because they the unvaccinated minority can't be bothered doing their bit?" & today the Gov seemed to acknowledge that shift by introducing a new, more nuanced framework to replace the rather crude Alert Levels. The bar for moving from one to the other has been set at what I believe is an impossibly high 90% fully vaccinated population but I suspect (or at least hope) that when it's reviewed on 29/11 reasons will be found to lower the threshold to a more realistic 80-85% & put even more pressure on the hold-outs.

 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Coles and Woolies join Westpac and CBA in denying people their freedoms! Employees required to get vaxed.

Fair enough, they are in direct contact with the great unwashed everyday.
 

Teh Other Dave

Alan Cameron (40)
I've felt for a while now that there's been a major shift in public opinion from "we're all in this together" to more of a "why should we the vaccinated majority have to stay in varying degrees of lockdown because they the unvaccinated minority can't be bothered doing their bit?" & today the Gov seemed to acknowledge that shift by introducing a new, more nuanced framework to replace the rather crude Alert Levels. The bar for moving from one to the other has been set at what I believe is an impossibly high 90% fully vaccinated population but I suspect (or at least hope) that when it's reviewed on 29/11 reasons will be found to lower the threshold to a more realistic 80-85% & put even more pressure on the hold-outs.

A couple of people I know loved school so much they decided to hit the books forever and become doctors - public health and infectious diseases specialists. Their take is that about 3% of people here and in NZ are firmly against vaccines; there are then another 5% who are hesitant but open to discussion. 90% vaccinated should be quite achievable, and 95% is still a reasonable target.

The slow uptake of the vaccine in NZ (and Qld and WA) is most likely complacency, and that may change around Auckland the longer restrictions remain in place.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Jason Little (69)
^ I hope you're right but I'm not so sure. On our best-ever day for vaccinations which was supported by all kinds of Telethon-like events broadcast on all the main FTA channels only 39K/ 130K were first doses & there's been roughly 10-12K/ 35-40K daily first doses since. We're rapidly approaching the point where there'll be hardly anyone left who's only had their first shot. We're just not getting the message through to certain communities & they're the ones who'll pay the price. Guarantee they & their advocates will blame "the system" when they get sick & demand their "right" to treatment they wouldn't need if they'd just gotten vaccinated in the first place.

Edit: it's already begun....

 
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formerflanker

Peter Fenwicke (45)
are you vaccinated? If you are, what influenced your decision to get vaccinated?
Yes.
Personal circumstances - age, weight, health, and after consultation with my GP.

That's what I am agitating for - personal decisions made with all relevant information, not nation-wide quarantining of the healthy and compulsory vaxxes for everybody.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
A vaccine is literally a weakened or altered form of the virus.......

Not always. The development of mRNA vaccines doesn't require any sort of "weakened or altered form of the virus", any virus for that matter. Some members of the anti-vax brigade point to the fact the COVID vaccines were developed in very quick time but the technology behind mRNA vaccines has been around for about a decade, and been successfully used against other diseases in that time.

Read here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html
 

tragic

Arch Winning (36)
Not always. The development of mRNA vaccines doesn't require any sort of "weakened or altered form of the virus", any virus for that matter.
Yup.
Astra vaccine = adenovirus vector vaccine. You’ve probably had hundreds of Adenovirus infections in your life. Causes the common cold. Evil pharma made it unable to replicate. Put the spike protein on its surface. Injected it. Virus gets wiped out quickly but your immune system remembers that shitty spike protein for next time. Been used for other vaccines in the past without the spike bit.

Pfizer/Moderna = mRNA vaccine. mRNA is produced in your cell nucleus and tells your cells to make stuff. Been used for 10 years to fight cancer. Scientists synthesised it, changed the instructions to make cells produce cancer protein, and injected it. Immune system nukes the cancer protein. And the cancer at the same time. Lives saved. No zombies with mutated DNA seen. Fast forward 10 yrs. Scientists tweak the mRNA cancer treatment to make cells produce spike protein instead. Same same but different. Immune system remembers that shitty spike protein. Nukes Covid next time. More lives saved. Still no zombies.

Novovax (coming in Nov/Dec) = shitload of recombinant nanoparticle spike protein in a syringe. No mRNA or adenovirus to get there. Just cut to the chase and inject the damn spike protein itself. End result much the same.

All 3 adapted existing technology and just added the spike protein rather than something else.
In all 3 the vaccine contents are completely destroyed in 2-3 weeks. Nothing left..period.
All that remains after a few weeks is your immune memory - everything else is tin foil nonsense/internet conspiracy.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
^ I hope you're right but I'm not so sure. On our best-ever day for vaccinations which was supported by all kinds of Telethon-like events broadcast on all the main FTA channels only 39K/ 130K were first doses & there's been roughly 10-12K/ 35-40K daily first doses since. We're rapidly approaching the point where there'll be hardly anyone left who's only had their first shot. We're just not getting the message through to certain communities & they're the ones who'll pay the price. Guarantee they & their advocates will blame "the system" when they get sick & demand their "right" to treatment they wouldn't need if they'd just gotten vaccinated in the first place.

Edit: it's already begun....


The article for me begs the question as to why Maori and PI vaccination lags the rest of the NZ population. Is it a lack of access? Is vaccine hesitancy greater in those communities?
 

waiopehu oldboy

Jason Little (69)
^ it's complex & I don't want to over-simplify but yes there have been some access issues esp in the Far North & Bay of Plenty/ East Cape, Health boards should've used mobile units sooner & partnered more with marae, sports clubs etc in those areas.

Many PI experienced the shameful dawn raids of the 1970's & early 80's & there's a fair bit of residual distrust of "the system" in that community: doesn't take much for some idiot to convince some of them that turning up to get vaccinated will result in them being deported. Then there's the religion factor: with a few exceptions, many after the fact of mass-infection events, the PI churches haven't really shown much leadership in this regard.

Ultimately I think it's mostly socio-economic & unfortunately Maori & PI are mostly in the lower s-e demographics.

On a brighter note, Auckland is now at 90% first-dose & will probably hit the 90% fully-vaxxed target in about a month. At which point they'll get much more freedom of movement etc but ironically still won't be able to leave Aux until the rest of NZ catches up.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
^ it's complex & I don't want to over-simplify but yes there have been some access issues esp in the Far North & Bay of Plenty/ East Cape, Health boards should've used mobile units sooner & partnered more with marae, sports clubs etc in those areas.

Many PI experienced the shameful dawn raids of the 1970's & early 80's & there's a fair bit of residual distrust of "the system" in that community: doesn't take much for some idiot to convince some of them that turning up to get vaccinated will result in them being deported. Then there's the religion factor: with a few exceptions, many after the fact of mass-infection events, the PI churches haven't really shown much leadership in this regard.

Ultimately I think it's mostly socio-economic & unfortunately Maori & PI are mostly in the lower s-e demographics.

On a brighter note, Auckland is now at 90% first-dose & will probably hit the 90% fully-vaxxed target in about a month. At which point they'll get much more freedom of movement etc but ironically still won't be able to leave Aux until the rest of NZ catches up.

Thanks for the explanation mate. In situations like this I think it's crucial that everybody who wants to get vaccinated has the opportunity to do so and those who don't want it at least have the right information in front of them to make a choice. This information doesn't often come from ratbag community "leaders" who have an agenda or garden variety nutters.
 
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