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COVID-19 Stuff Here

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
Is the cartoon appropriate? It does have a sense of humour but it goes against the narrative of mandatory vaccinations, so your definition of appropriate becomes the pivotal criterion. I'm OK with the blog owner deleting it because it's his/their blog.

"Vaccines don't work" is a blunt expression. "Don't work as well as initially claimed" is more like the reality of covid experiences around the world.

For example, Gibraltar is the most vaccinated place on earth, having inoculated the entirety of its adult population. But, case numbers steadily rose throughout the months of October and November.
Health Minister Samantha Sacramento called it a "drastic increase". If vaccinations were to be the silver bullet, Gibraltar says otherwise.

Bill Gates involvement = tinfoil hat territory? A simple internet search will lead you to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation sponsorship of Event 201, a simulation of a Coronavirus pandemic that occured in New York City in October 2019. Bill was there. The only aspect in dispute is whether the topics were a discussion about public health or lockdowns/mandatory vaccines.

Waning vaccine effectiveness (hence the need for boosters) and the WHO's statement that vaccines do not replace the need for other precautions tell me that vaccinations should be an individual choice and not compulsory. Another worrying sign is the number of fit young athletes collapsing with heart problems during games and training . This issue alone should boost the arguments of those who are vaccine-hesitant.
Gibraltar covid deaths. Damn those ineffectual vaccines duping the poor Gibraltans and leaving them to die in the streets once their covid wards are overwhelmed.

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When you are doing your own research do you actually do any research?
 

dru

Phil Kearns (64)
Gibraltar covid deaths. Damn those ineffectual vaccines duping the poor Gibraltans and leaving them to die in the streets once their covid wards are overwhelmed.

View attachment 12799

When you are doing your own research do you actually do any research?

Gibraltar, population 34,000. Area 6.8 sq km - basically a Sydney suburb. With that population a very small suburb. I understand what you are saying, but honest, it's kind of irrelevant.

Evidence for effectiveness of vaccines is right here in Australia. And it is overwhelming.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Gibraltar, population 34,000. Area 6.8 sq km - basically a Sydney suburb. With that population a very small suburb. I understand what you are saying, but honest, it's kind of irrelevant.

Evidence for effectiveness of vaccines is right here in Australia. And it is overwhelming.

Yes, absolutely. I didn't really need a lot of convincing, but the experiences of NSW and Vic once they got their vaccine roll outs humming were there for all to see. It essentially squashed the virus at that point (in terms of serious cases at the very least, which was the desired effect).
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
Gibraltar, population 34,000. Area 6.8 sq km - basically a Sydney suburb. With that population a very small suburb. I understand what you are saying, but honest, it's kind of irrelevant.

Evidence for effectiveness of vaccines is right here in Australia. And it is overwhelming.
Agree. Was replying to FFs point on vaccine ineffectiveness in Gibraltar (I should have trimmed the post I quoted a bit). I wasn't trying to make a wider point other than he should stop spouting random facts with no context as evidence for vaccines not working. As you pointed out, Sydney and Melbourne are great examples of why referring to a country about the same size as Warnambool is not going to provide compelling proof of some wider truth.
 
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formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
When you are doing your own research do you actually do any research?
That's rich coming from someone who looks at my statements about CASES and moves seamlessly to another issue, namely DEATHS to try and prove I'm wrong.
Worldometer shows both sets of statistics to be correct so don't pretend to have a stranglehold on the truth.
My argument still stands - the effectiveness of vaccines is suspect enough to give people real cause for concern and a strong case for not making them mandatory.
 

dru

Phil Kearns (64)
Agree. Was replying to FFs point on vaccine ineffectiveness in Gibraltar (I should have trimmed the post I quoted a bit). I wasn't trying to make a wider point other than he should stop spouting random facts with no context as evidence for vaccines not working. As you pointed out, Sydney and Melbourne are great examples of why referring to a country about the same size as Warnambool is not going to provide compelling proof of some wider truth.

my apologies, I am no longer reading flankers musings and missed the connection.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
That's rich coming from someone who looks at my statements about CASES and moves seamlessly to another issue, namely DEATHS to try and prove I'm wrong.
Worldometer shows both sets of statistics to be correct so don't pretend to have a stranglehold on the truth.
My argument still stands - the effectiveness of vaccines is suspect enough to give people real cause for concern and a strong case for not making them mandatory.
Firstly, your first sentence is just deflection. I was talking about the quality of information you refer to, not how you apply it to whichever smaller part of the overall picture you choose to try and create an argument that vaccination effectiveness is suspect.

In isolation, cases don't matter so I fail to see why this is how you argue against vaccination. Cases are part of a larger picture involving hospitalisation and death. Its about going from what Italy experienced in early 2020, to what we see in Melbourne and Sydney now. Reduced tranmission, reduced death, reduced hospitalisation. Reduced stress on the healthcare system. Not worsening outcomes from non-covid conditions due to delayed treatment. Also not having kids, yo-yo-ing back and forward from school due to covid exposures. Having said that vaccines demonstrably reduce transmission.

What is your explanation for a falling caseload in Melbourne despite restrictions being lifted and cold wet weather continuing until about two weeks ago?

On vaccine mandates I cant believe I am going to say this, but Jacquie Lambie's comments are bang on the money. Rights come with responsibilties and in this case it is to get vaccinated to suppress the pandemic.

Your argument that the effectiveness of vaccines undermines the case for them being mandatory simply doesnt reflect the lived experience if you actually accept that the issue is not people getting mild or moderately ill, but stopping them dying and placing undue stress on the health system worsening outcomes for covid and non-covid patients.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
That's rich coming from someone who looks at my statements about CASES and moves seamlessly to another issue, namely DEATHS to try and prove I'm wrong.
Worldometer shows both sets of statistics to be correct so don't pretend to have a stranglehold on the truth.
My argument still stands - the effectiveness of vaccines is suspect enough to give people real cause for concern and a strong case for not making them mandatory.
Worldometer? LOL…

And I don’t like to use the term ‘LOL.’

But no, your argument does not stand. You are once again… wrong.
 
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Froggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
The anti-vaccination stance is a shibboleth, it is a belief that forms part of someone's identity, and there really is little point trying to counter it with logical argument. People went through life and died believing the earth was flat, nothing was ever going to change it, people are dying believing the CIA killed JFK and the moon landing was faked.
No point in arguing.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Gregan (70)
^ 4-5 years ago Flat Earth was all over YouTube, there were conventions, docos, books etc etc & they had "members all over the globe". Today it's all but dead & at least part of the reason is the work of debunkers on YT & elsewhere hammering away at the fallacies on which FE is based.

Possibly the FE fad would've run its course & died out anyway but constant debunking helped & I think the same is true for the much more dangerous Covid-denial/ anti-vax movement.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Stoff, your "reduced transmission in Melbourne" claim fell apart today with the announcement that 1,419 new cases were identified in Victoria.
That's the highest daily figure since November 1.
There had been a pleasing downward trend in the week leading up to the beginning of December but the last two days have seen a vicious turnaround.
The worrying thing is that daily cases have increased significantly since September 1, whilst at the same time Victorian vaccination rates were climbing to over 90%.
Correlation doesn't mean causation, but to argue for forced vaccinations while cases keep rising is a flawed argument.
 

Slim 293

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Stoff, your "reduced transmission in Melbourne" claim fell apart today with the announcement that 1,419 new cases were identified in Victoria.
That's the highest daily figure since November 1.

Er, this claim doesn't hold up...

Transmissions were clearly multiplying at a far greater rate prior to high vaccination rates.
 

stoff

Cyril Towers (30)
Stoff, your "reduced transmission in Melbourne" claim fell apart today with the announcement that 1,419 new cases were identified in Victoria.
That's the highest daily figure since November 1.
There had been a pleasing downward trend in the week leading up to the beginning of December but the last two days have seen a vicious turnaround.
The worrying thing is that daily cases have increased significantly since September 1, whilst at the same time Victorian vaccination rates were climbing to over 90%.
Correlation doesn't mean causation, but to argue for forced vaccinations while cases keep rising is a flawed argument.
Meh. This is getting boring for everyone on this thread. I'm going to go with @dru 's strategy. I can always go argue with my six year old if I want to just repeat myself over and over and have nonsense come back in return.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Gregan (70)
Covid denial kills:


Synopsis: Canadian YouTuber Flat Earth Focker is driving around in his car. He's obviously got some kind of respiratory problem. He's ranting about "Convid" & The Authorities. He's talking about taking his message cross-country & asking his followers if they've got a bed for him should he come by their way. He hoicks out the window a coupla times. He talks about how his dog got sick but is ok now 'cos he took her to the vet & got her some meds (dogs (& cats) can get Covid, BTW).

Spoiler alert: as the title suggests, Flat Earth Focker has subsequently died from or at least as a result of Covid.
 

Tex

Jim Lenehan (48)
I get the schadenfreude and all, but they're deluded and scared imo, and it's all just a bit sad.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Gregan (70)
It's not schadenfreude & yes most of them are deluded & scared & it's all very sad but choices have consequences. That particular guy doesn't strike me as scared but he's sure as shit deluded & hell-bent on spreading that delusion which would of course have also spread the very disease he's denying. Empathy is a wonderful thing but there are limits.
 
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dru

Phil Kearns (64)
It's not schadenfreude & yes most of them are deluded & scared & it's all very sad but choices have consequences. That particular guy doesn't strike me as scared but he's sure as shit deluded & hell-bent on spreading that delusion which would of course have also spread the very disease he's denying. Empathy is a wonderful thing but there are limits.

Virus of the unvaccinated. Maybe I'm not a good person but I'm completely past sympathy. They put the whole of society at risk.
 
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