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Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Numbers massively skewed by Grammar and High though. But startling nonetheless.

And unfortunately expect further deterioration when the 2016 numbers become clear.

I've already been told that Kings will likely go down to 13D rugby and 13G soccer for example.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
QH, look I get the issue of dwindling involvement from schools. But it seems that you are argumentatively agreeing with Bill. The ARU actually seems to have a firm grasp on this, ditto with the importance of clubs.

My reading of the 5 year plan (in part)
Game On programme at schools. 5 week (?) rugby basics.
DOs to encourage these kids to joins clubs.
Viva7 non contact at clubs to remove parant concerns. Major growth area.
Clubs build from this base to include 7's and 15's

Its very logical and working from the growth areas in order to (hopefully) build numbers in 15's.

They certainly are the plans and I'm in general agreement with what he's planning. However, I wouldn't use the term "firm grasp" to describe their approach. I think (and I could be wrong), that Pulver significantly underestimates the degree of difficulty inherent in the plans and the length of time needed.

I certainly wouldn't agree with his statement that players involved in school programmes will fill the void left by the evaporation from the club system.

I don't blame Pulver for the mess that we're in either - this started well before his arrival - @2003, lots of us at the bottom noticed, but it's only now that we've reached crisis point is there a real plan from the top to do anything about it.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
There is a little story in today's SMH which reports that the ARU is planning a push into State schools.


Great idea. Let's go about it the right way. First, let us look at the lessons of history. The game used to be played in State High Schools in Sydney. In fact there was a thriving Combined High Schools rugby competition, with each school providing six grades for contests every Wednesday. It was not at all unusual for matches to be refereed by senior referees. I played in a game which was refereed by Dr Roger Vanderfield, who was a Test match referee at the time.

What caused the apparent demise of this competition (either fully or partially - I assume there are still some remnants?)


Firstly, I would imagine the huge demographic changes in the Sydney population have been the main factor, together with the extraordinary competition that happens now for places at the very schools which formed the heart of the CHS. And at the academically selective schools the only thing that counts these days is academic success. Sport is just not on the radar. This is also related to the aspirations of an increasing number of parents from backgrounds different to the old British Empire types, like mine. And probably yours, if you are reading this.


Secondly, the rise and rise of our three competitors. This has been covered ad nauseum. But any planning needs to be realistically grounded in full knowledge of the obvious appeal and financial strength of our competitors.


My quick answer is

1. Pick schools in which competitive sport in general is perceived to be an important part of the curriculum.


2. Pick schools where we have "friends at court" - preferably a few staff members and/or influential parents are actively involved in the game.


3. Pick schools which are located near a thriving rugby club, either a district or sub-district club, which can demonstrate an interest in liasing with the school and, ideally, providing both playing and coaching opportunities for interested pupils.



4. Pick schools whose student populations are strongly representative of ethnic backgrounds which value sport in general, and are not averse to involvement in our game,



Rank the schools under those four criteria. Go for it!!!!
 
T

TOCC

Guest
Hate to be a pedant but the official name is SANZAAR, not SANZAR, not SANDZAR... SANZAAR, the extra 'A' was added this ear to reflect Argentinas role in the group. Perhaps it was facetious joke I've missed.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Hate to be a pedant but the official name is SANZAAR, not SANZAR, not SANDZAR. SANZAAR, the extra 'A' was added this ear to reflect Argentinas role in the group. Perhaps it was facetious joke I've missed.


Nothing wrong with pedantry. My pet hate is Chieka and the variations on Folua or Fuloa etc etc.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
It is a helluva lot easier for non-sporting types to play gentle soccer than it is to muck around in our game.



Provided there are adequate opportunities for kids who want to play rugby, who cares what the swots and nerds play??
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
There is a little story in today's SMH which reports that the ARU is planning a push into State schools.


Great idea. Let's go about it the right way. First, let us look at the lessons of history. The game used to be played in State High Schools in Sydney. In fact there was a thriving Combined High Schools rugby competition, with each school providing six grades for contests every Wednesday. It was not at all unusual for matches to be refereed by senior referees. I played in a game which was refereed by Dr Roger Vanderfield, who was a Test match referee at the time.

What caused the apparent demise of this competition (either fully or partially - I assume there are still some remnants?)

There used to be an annual match between CHS and GPS representative sides, around the 1960s. It might be just my memory playing tricks, but I seem to remember that CHS won a string of games and then GPS withdrew from the arrangement. That seemed to spell the end of CHS as a force at schoolboy level. I could be well wide of the mark, however.
 

Keiran

Sydney Middleton (9)
I fear the horse has already bolted. Junior participation is through the floor with the senior ranks fast following. Of course if you follow the ARU's idea of participation, a school visit or league players getting the day off school to play in a one off rugby knockout I guess everyone is playing the game we love.
 

Brendan Hume

Charlie Fox (21)
As a pillar for the 5 year plan, Viva 7's seems to be a bit of an unknown. Touch and OzTag are huge competitions that are very similar to Rugby League - I find it hard to think we can break into that very saturated market. Touch has a formal alliance with Rugby League - perhaps the ARU would be better trying to buy the OzTag licences (or introduce it's own Flag Rugby/Rippa Rugby concept) I imagine its only in Australia where flag rugby is linked more to Rugby League than Rugby.
 

Marcelo

Ken Catchpole (46)
The objetives look a bit utopians for me:

*356,500 participants o_O
clear.png
o_Oo_O across the three formats of Rugby – XVs, Sevens and VIVA7s

*Increase female participation rate to 15% of all participants across three formats

*Average Aus TV viewership of 100,000 for every Super Rugby match played in Aus

*Average Aus TV viewership of 1 million for every Rugby Championship match played in Aus o_Oo_Oo_O

*Retain 100% of full season members year on year

*Achieve 1.1 million ticket sales for Wallabies Test matches over the period 2016-2020

*Achieve 1 million visits per month to Rugby.com.au and Super Rugby team websites and generate a loyalty subscriber base of 500,000

*Achieve >85% of players in national programs having graduated through state and national pathway programs

*Wallabies: win the Rugby Championship, Bledisloe Cup and 2019 Rugby World Cup o_Oo_Oo_O and at all times retain top 3 world ranking

*Wallabies: ranked number one as Australia’s most recognised national team brand o_Oo_Oo_O

*Olympic (2016 & 2020) and Commonwealth Games (2018) Medals for men’s and women’s Sevens teams30% of women in Board roles, senior management roles, and 30% women in ARU staff

*Growth of a future fund to $10 million by 2020
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
There used to be an annual match between CHS and GPS representative sides, around the 1960s. It might be just my memory playing tricks, but I seem to remember that CHS won a string of games and then GPS withdrew from the arrangement. That seemed to spell the end of CHS as a force at schoolboy level. I could be well wide of the mark, however.


Yes, I think there was a time when CHS was pretty strong.


Reg Gasnier played five-eighth for CHS - I think in 1957! He went to Sydney Boys Technical High School. They play loig these days.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
MHCS,


You are quite correct to call them out on the utopian objectives. There is absolutely NO point in trying to achieve unachievable goals.
 

the sabanator

Ron Walden (29)
In terms of overtaking rugby in the private schools, soccer already has - whether or not AFL will, I'm not so sure.


Not in Queensland it hasn't, and there's a significant gap.

The most alarming stat to me was the hemorrhaging of senior players from the clubs - which is an area I think the ARU stands off and lets the clubs handle themselves. Juniors and schools are important, but engaging with the people who actually spend the money - whether it be subs, tickets to Super Rugby and test matches and, most importantly, signing their offspring up to their old club to play - is at an all time low and is a massive area to pick up.

I also think a stronger Super Rugby is critical to long term success. Turning Super Rugby Friday nights into a thing - and making sure there is a game on every Friday at 7:30 to go against league - would be a good start.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
They certainly are the plans and I'm in general agreement with what he's planning. However, I wouldn't use the term "firm grasp" to describe their approach. I think (and I could be wrong), that Pulver significantly underestimates the degree of difficulty inherent in the plans and the length of time needed.

I certainly wouldn't agree with his statement that players involved in school programmes will fill the void left by the evaporation from the club system.

I don't blame Pulver for the mess that we're in either - this started well before his arrival - @2003, lots of us at the bottom noticed, but it's only now that we've reached crisis point is there a real plan from the top to do anything about it.
the BIG question is how much is he allocating?
It requires substantial funding that I'm not confident he is willing or able to allocate,to properly address the issues he has identified.
Money talks,and bullshit walks.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
It is a helluva lot easier for non-sporting types to play gentle soccer than it is to muck around in our game.







Provided there are adequate opportunities for kids who want to play rugby, who cares what the swots and nerds play??


Many people think so, but when you look at the injury rates there has historically been a higher rate of injury in Soccer, mainly lower leg and ankle injuries.

It is also easy to dismiss Soccer and having a "different" sort of person playing the game, but growing up in Western Sydney with my father the President of Football at Club Marconi it was the game I played until teenage years.

Do not forget that many Wallabies played soccer as well in their early years. Rugby exclusivity is an argument which could act to obscure the argument rather than provide an acurate picture of what is happening at grass roots and how that will feed into the rep sides. I remember a Springboh second rower some may remember by the name of Mark Andrews who didn't play Rugby, he much preferred Water Polo growing up, and I think he may well have returned to that sport, post Rugby.
 
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