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Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Gnostic,


I was commenting on school sports only, looking back on my schooldays when soccer was not offered, and the nerds and swots were forced to play "house" rugby, a degrading and boring experience for most of them. They would have been better off playing a gentler sport, which soccer is at that level.


So to me the fact that soccer is popular in GPS schools is not necessarily a bad thing. That is the point I was making, not talking about the respective games at the elite level, or even at the kids level, only at the mucking around level.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
the BIG question is how much is he allocating?
It requires substantial funding that I'm not confident he is willing or able to allocate,to properly address the issues he has identified.
Money talks,and bullshit walks.

100% agree. We can identify the problem and the solution, but if don't put the resources behind it then its largely wasted effort.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Not in Queensland it hasn't, and there's a significant gap.

The most alarming stat to me was the hemorrhaging of senior players from the clubs - which is an area I think the ARU stands off and lets the clubs handle themselves. Juniors and schools are important, but engaging with the people who actually spend the money - whether it be subs, tickets to Super Rugby and test matches and, most importantly, signing their offspring up to their old club to play - is at an all time low and is a massive area to pick up.

I also think a stronger Super Rugby is critical to long term success. Turning Super Rugby Friday nights into a thing - and making sure there is a game on every Friday at 7:30 to go against league - would be a good start.

The next generation of senior players have to come from somewhere. If there are fewer schoolboy and junior players today, logic suggests that there will be even fewer senior players in the future.

Don't Queensland GPS schools play soccer and rugby at different times in the school year so that boys can play both? If so, it's not an either/or choice as it is in Sydney.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
the BIG question is how much is he allocating?
It requires substantial funding that I'm not confident he is willing or able to allocate,to properly address the issues he has identified.
Money talks,and bullshit walks.

I don't think he has enough money to do what he wants and I think that he underestimates the magnitude of what needs to be done.
 

the sabanator

Ron Walden (29)
Don't Queensland GPS schools play soccer and rugby at different times in the school year so that boys can play both? If so, it's not an either/or choice as it is in Sydney.

They made that change a few years back. There are maybe a few more soccer teams but still nowhere near the number of boys with a Gilbert in their hands.
 

Sauron

Larry Dwyer (12)
I don't see what is so utopian about these goals, frankly.

Increase in participation will be a cinch. Every kid that is involved in a Viva 7s program will be counted. That's what the other codes do, so there's no doubt the ARU will, too.

They aren't looking for an average viewership of 1m for every TRC match involving Australia, just those that are played here, in prime time. That's achievable, it wasn't so long ago that Wallabies tests were regularly pushing that figure anyway (IIRC).

Of course they're going to set goals of winning competitions. It's perfectly conceivable that we'll be able to achieve all of those- why couldn't we? If we win them, no doubt we'll have a more recognisable brand than the Socceroos. They can't attract decent quality opposition to Australia, but we can. Bandwagonners like winners playing in high-quality games.
 

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
I don't see what is so utopian about these goals, frankly.

They aren't looking for an average viewership of 1m for every TRC match involving Australia, just those that are played here, in prime time. That's achievable, it wasn't so long ago that Wallabies tests were regularly pushing that figure anyway (IIRC).
quote.
Just looking at the TV figures - because we can track those - thanks to The Wookie's posts and his footy industry website.

  • Bledisloe games rate at about that 1m combined Metro+Regional+Fox
  • South African games, and especially Argentina games are less (as low as 500k). They probably average around 750k for TRC games at the moment. Clashes with NRL and AFL finals are a big issue
  • Super Rugby games are rating about 70k at the moment - just 2 so far this year >100k. Only 4 > 100k last year.
The ARU are fighting a structural decline in TV ratings across all sports. There's so many other options these days. It's very hard to see how they could increase ratings by ~50% to meet those objectives.

But I hope they can.
 

Brendan Hume

Charlie Fox (21)
I think the goals are fantastic. The problem I had when the ARU and state unions started levying players was that it was a levy with no accountability or plan. To some extent there is still a lack of a plan but at least they've identified targets. It is a bit hard to get a feel for some of the targets as many current figures aren't stated, but it's great that they are there.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
It is a helluva lot easier for non-sporting types to play gentle soccer than it is to muck around in our game.



Provided there are adequate opportunities for kids who want to play rugby, who cares what the swots and nerds play??

The "swots" and "nerds" who played in those lower rugby teams all those years ago are in all likelihood today's fans (or at least some of them are). i.e go to games, take their kids to games, buy merchandise for their kids etc.

Far less likely for boys who have played soccer at school to morph into rugby supporters in the future.

At that low level on the game, the physical demands aren't much different from soccer. In fact, probably less aerobic fitness - the unfit ones can just trot from scrum to maul to lineout.:)
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
The "swots" and "nerds" who played in those lower rugby teams all those years ago are in all likelihood today's fans (or at least some of them are). i.e go to games, take their kids to games, buy merchandise for their kids etc.



Far less likely for boys who have played soccer at school to morph into rugby supporters in the future.



At that low level on the game, the physical demands aren't much different from soccer. In fact, probably less aerobic fitness - the unfit ones can just trot from scrum to maul to lineout.:)


My first stitches (4) still have the scar, and broken collar bone aged 8, playing soccer. Yep gentle game. I played it and loved playing, hated watching, but much prefer Rugby to play and watch. But I love playing most games, I only watch Rugby.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
It is a helluva lot easier for non-sporting types to play gentle soccer than it is to muck around in our game.



Provided there are adequate opportunities for kids who want to play rugby, who cares what the swots and nerds play??
What an odd comment. Stereotyping is just what we need more of. Not.
 

RugbyFuture

Lord Logo
I was in the 4th XV at Aloys (for those who went to bigger schools, that was the lowest team) I spend my nights with friends playing board games and I was definitely never considered a jock.

As with comments in the past regarding asians not being able to play rugby because of their physique, isolating people is the wrong way to go about the business and culture of sport. Sport should always be inclusive and indeed one of the things we as a community always tout is the fact that their is a position for every body shape in rugby.

If you want to isolate people because of interests, culture or physique you can look to the days of the NSL in soccer and how that worked out.
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
What are senior male participation numbers like for League, Aussie rules and soccer?

Have they held up? Is this purely a problem for union?


League and AFL are down but Soccer has increased hugely.

Especially with girls were today more girls are registered in soccer than in netball.

Soccer has the AFL worried according to a mate in Perth. He says the AFL is saying soccer has more players now than AFL, League and Union combined.

The trend could be about the type of game as Gallop keeps saying the collision codes which has had reaction from both the NRL and AFL. With the AFL saying bumps in tackles are ruled out and the head needs protecting. Rugby League has partnered with Touch.

We are very late to the party on this. My Perth mate [Peter is his name] says he was at a seminar and one of the speakers was a US lawyer and he said it is possible the courts could place rules on what they see as collision codes. Already in soccer some countries have banned heading of the ball until a child is in their teens.

As to your direct question on senior males playing soccer is still growing although at a much slower rate than girls taking up soccer.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
I've had a look at the plan, very sexy on paper - BUT.
I reckon it stinks of pissing up $ against the wall though.

We are in this position because of neglect.
You cant build from the top down - business / sport need foundations.
We have an awesome game, with a variation in sevens.
We have clubs all over Australia wanting to grow and volunteer allot of hours.

"We are going to develop a whole new workforce, and develop new forms of the game" how many layers of mgmt / support / unions would this involve ??? will would require a very large urinal

There is nothing wrong with the games we have.
15's
7's
We have the workforce in the clubs at the moment (the grass roots which have been neglected), they are crying out for support. They have a very vested interest in the game as it provides the pathway, support them
 

BarneySF

Bob Loudon (25)
Are there any stats on whether touch serves as a gateway to participation in 15? Isn't that the fastest growing corporate-social organized sport in the country/world or something?

Edit - haven't read the full thread so this may have been raised.


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