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Elsom: Messiah or just a naughty boy?

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Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
O'Driscoll certainly thinks he is the second coming. As far as I can see, he isnt much different from the player who left Australia. Sure, our best 6 (though I wasn't overly concerned when he left given, at the time, Mumm and MMM's form), but not the world beater the Irish describe. He still seems to have a tendency to go missing in big internationals (eg Tri-nations games) and to make silly mistakes (failure to pass last weekend and, historically, giving away silly penalties). I hope he turns into the player O'Driscoll describes but I'm not uber confident that he will.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...es-his-return-to-Dublin-for-Ireland-Test.html

Australia captain Rocky Elsom is going to ground this week in Dublin, at least until the final whistle blows on Sunday night, after which the party can begin. Win, lose or draw. And everybody is invited.

It is difficult to think of a more popular sportsman in the Irish capital than the powerhouse Australian flanker after his heroics in Leinster colours last season. Although he always stands his round, Elsom need not ever buy a drink in Dublin again, a considerable state of bliss by any criteria.

Leading by example up front, his sheer physical presence and devotion to the cause added steel to Leinster's pack, brought out the best in others and allowed the backs to do their stuff.

Leinster's Heineken Cup triumph was a superb team effort but it probably would not have happened without Elsom. He, more than anybody, transformed them from talented underachievers to ruthless, hard-nosed winners.

Such is the whirlwind existence of a top player these days that Elsom enjoyed only a couple of days savouring that great triumph before he was off on his travels again, returning to Australia. There are still thousands in Dublin who want to say their thanks, and get the drinks in.

"There might be more distractions than a normal Test week but you have got to manage that," Elsom conceded. "There's a lot to enjoy in the city without getting on it until 4am, although a lot of Dubliners would probably say otherwise.

"It's funny how things work out. I can't think how I could have had a better time in Dublin when I was here with Leinster. Now, I'm captain and against Ireland and Brian O'Driscoll, my old team-mate. It's going to be big. They won't be jumping out of the stands for us at Croke Park but the noise out of that 80,000 stadium is deafening and we'll have to address that."

Elsom is the rock solid, diehard Australian who gives stereotyping a good name. He is straight from central casting, the Australian warrior you would want by your side in the trenches or hacking a path through the Burmese jungle way behind enemy lines.

O'Driscoll cannot talk highly enough of his recent team-mate and opposing captain on Sunday: "Rocky is just one of the very best players I have encountered, absolutely exceptional. He took two matches to settle in last season, we lost 17-0 to Munster and then to Connacht, but from that moment onward he was immense.

"He was man of the match for us in virtually every game, even the games they gave the award to somebody else.

"It was a privilege to play with Rocky and we owe him a lot at Leinster, we won't ever forget his contribution. And believe me, he will make a very good Australia captain.

"I was delighted for him and think [Australia coach] Robbie Deans has been very smart making the appointment. I look forward to playing against Rocky and I definitely look forward to catching up with him afterwards."

Commentators have tagged this Australian squad a young experimental outfit picked with an eye on the World Cup in 2011 but Elsom is having none of that "blue skies" forward-thinking nonsense. As Australia captain he wants results now.

"If anyone was to talk about the next World Cup then I'd be reasonably annoyed," he says. "There's a lot of time between now and then. We can't win it now but we can win these games and particularly this one at the weekend.

"It's not going to be easy for us, we need to put everything into it and then worry about the fallout next week."

That is the approach that helped transform Leinster last season and Australia believe he can now do the same for them.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Maybe, but they've been saying it since the Heinekin Cup final and its not just the Irish.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
I guess they're understandably basing their view on his performance for Leinster in which he completely fucking killed it?
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Agreed, but Peter Hewat has been known to kill it at S14 level at times too and no one has called him the best player they've ever played with. Maybe O'Driscoll hasnt played with many southern hemisphere players.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
The offered choices for evaluating Rocky - "messiah" and "naughty boy" - are far too extreme for my liking.

Rocky is either the best blindside on the planet or very close indeed to the best. He is a better player than when he went to Leinster - just look at how his performances with Munster inproved throughout his stay there. This board had many posters who declared that Rocky wouldn't be missed because we had Mumm, McMinimumm and Higginbumm. They all turned out to be bums. Who now prefers any of the three bums to Rocky? Speak up, please.

Rocky is one of those blokes who have many detractors who seem to ignore the facts. Have a look at his carry, lineout, tackle and ruck/maul stats for last Saturday. Not a bad set of numbers, eh?

As for O'Driscoll not having played with many SH players, that is also a straw view. Who are the mighty blindsides in the SH who could be compared to Rocky? Only one, the great Juan Smith.

We have been through this before with the Rock knockers. Ask the players in his teams, ask his coaches, ask his opponents, ask opposing coaches. Ask a professional for his view.

I have posted before that I had the great fortune to have a drink with Buck Shelford a while ago. We had a laugh about how you can tell a good NZ player - those hated by Australians - and a good Australian player - those hated by NZ-dders. I asked the great man who the NZ-dders hate now. He smiled and said "Elsom, with great passion". What is the excuse to write off Shelford's opinion?
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
i think we need a month off people referring to people "going missing" during internationals. against better teams, a gameplan is worked out to shut down there better players, smith, rocky, palu, giteau to name a few are players that the opposition try to nullify at every opportunity, if they are controlled, the testiment to there games is that it takes two defenders and creates space around them for others to step up, none of these names "go missing" they get shut down, luckily if one of them does we have 14 other guys on the field, but i guess its an individuals responsbility to win matches these days right?
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Biffo said:
As for O'Driscoll not having played with many SH players, that is also a straw view. Who are the mighty blindsides in the SH who could be compared to Rocky? Only one, the great Juan Smith.

Just because he isnt the messiah, it doesnt mean he's a bad player, it just means he's not the messiah. BOD didnt say the best blindside, he said the best player. In any event, the SH comment was very tongue in cheek. There are plenty of quality NH players running around.

As for Shelford's opinion, a good player doesnt necessarily make a rugby expert. We are often given the benefit of the opinion of former players. Some are valuable and some not. Many criticise Mark Ella and Campo's columns yet they are unarguably two of our greatest players.

waratahjesus said:
i think we need a month off people referring to people "going missing" during internationals. against better teams, a gameplan is worked out to shut down there better players, smith, rocky, palu, giteau to name a few are players that the opposition try to nullify at every opportunity, if they are controlled, the testiment to there games is that it takes two defenders and creates space around them for others to step up, none of these names "go missing" they get shut down, luckily if one of them does we have 14 other guys on the field, but i guess its an individuals responsbility to win matches these days right?

Of course good players are targetted by opposition teams. When anyone plays the All Blacks, the team will try to nullify McCaw and Carter. Similarly with Matfield, Botha and FdP for the Boks, BOD for Ireland etc. It is the ability of these players to produce outstanding performances against the best notwithstanding that they are being targetted that endorses the fact they are contemporary greats. I haven't yet seen that from Elsom at international level. I've seen it at provincial level, but that is not what we are discussing.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Biffo said:
Of course good players are targetted by opposition teams. When anyone plays the All Blacks, the team will try to nullify McCaw and Carter. Similarly with Matfield, Botha and FdP for the Boks, BOD for Ireland etc. It is the ability of these players to produce outstanding performances against the best notwithstanding that they are being targetted that endorses the fact they are contemporary greats. I haven't yet seen that from Elsom at international level. I've seen it at provincial level, but that is not what we are discussing.

we are discussing it, the first post mentions he goes missing in internationals, and a player that gets targeted creates opportunities for others, watching the tahs for many years, every time tuqiri got the ball, he attracted two to three defenders, watching rocky play, he attracks the same often and also causes people to rush the defensive line to nullify him which creates opportunities for those around him, he doesnt go missing, he does his job and he does it well,
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
I'm going to put the nuts on the line here.

:elsom: is injured.

Watch him closely, and you'll see a limp.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Scarfman said:
I'm going to put the nuts on the line here.

:elsom: is injured.

Watch him closely, and you'll see a limp.

Class observation, Mate. It's very obvious.

We should adopt horse racing's distinction between "fit" and "sound". In this case Rocky is very fit, but unsound.
 
M

macg101

Guest
As a Munster fan and therefore completly unbiased in every way shape and form.

Rocky was absolutely sensational last season. Possibly the best performance from number 6 I have ever seen against us and then again againts Leicester in the final of the Heiniken Cup.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Biffo said:
Rocky is one of those blokes who have many detractors who seem to ignore the facts. Have a look at his carry, lineout, tackle and ruck/maul stats for last Saturday. Not a bad set of numbers, eh?

Rocky Elsom is still the barometer for testing whether any Australian rugby fan knows their rugby.

A world class blindside has a gigantic workrate, does the shitwork, and lives for the contact zones.
Elsom is a seagull. Elsom is a glory hunting softcock. Elsom never wins the contact. While TPN and Palu smash people in defence, Elsom remains a grabber, a shover, he does little more than tickle blokes. The only component of his game up to scratch is his lineout work.

Elsom is the greatest myth in the history of the fucking Universe. Enough with the thrashwanking over this mediocre fringe rugby league reserve grader. Its is a sad indictment on Australian rugby that this pathetic gimp is captaining our side, let alone considered qualified to make it.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
While not quite agreeing with Naza, i have to say I'm yet to be convinced that the man has lived up to the hype surrounding him. At the moment, I still rate the likes of Cockbain just as highly.

That said, he is the best blindside with have by a long way.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
NTA said:
Still sporting your tinfoil hat I see, naza. Well done that man - keeping it lively :)

I've really got to stop posting on forums after a night on the piss. No typos though !
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
naza said:
NTA said:
Still sporting your tinfoil hat I see, naza. Well done that man - keeping it lively :)

I've really got to stop posting on forums after a night on the piss. No typos though !

In vino veritas

Outside, May-a-a-aa-te.

And bring your mate Banahan with you - he also thinks Rocky is a myth.

President
Rocky Fan Club
 
M

Mojoman

Guest
I tend to lean towards Naza's way of thinking around Elsom without labelling him a softcock.

I'm fairly underwhelmed by his performance thus far after reading the hype and watching the highlight reels from Heineken Cup and his performances for Leinster. But then again, we haven't seen him play Super rugby yet. In the test arena he's been good, but definitely not great.

I just don't like it how commentators seem to wax lyrically about him when he's doing nothing outstanding. He always gets labelled as Australia's best performed player/forward but again, just seem underwhelmed by him.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
naza said:
I've really got to stop posting on forums after a night on the piss. No typos though !

Girl#1: You're not really going to home with THAT are you?
Girl#2: Why not?
Girl#1: He's ugly, arrogant, ridiculous, and his personal hygiene is decidedly questionable.
Girl#2: But his typing is IMMACULATE ...

[naza wakes up]
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Mojoman said:
I tend to lean towards Naza's way of thinking around Elsom without labelling him a softcock.

I'm fairly underwhelmed by his performance thus far after reading the hype and watching the highlight reels from Heineken Cup and his performances for Leinster. But then again, we haven't seen him play Super rugby yet. In the test arena he's been good, but definitely not great.

I just don't like it how commentators seem to wax lyrically about him when he's doing nothing outstanding. He always gets labelled as Australia's best performed player/forward but again, just seem underwhelmed by him.

My view too. Also my view of Gits.

Contrast with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), who is rarely lauded as the Wallabies best player but often is nevertheless. George Smith is now in the un-appreciated category as well.
 
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