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Energy efficiency

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I love the concept, but you would have to think he could have achieved equal outcomes, cheaper with bulk insulation.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
Working in the Australian building industry I can attest that Australian Tradesman struggle mightily with waterproofing. I sure as shit wouldn't be trusting anyone to waterproof my roof then dump a garden on top. We just don't do it enough to be very good at it.

But yes, I do love a green roof. But I doubt they would be plausible anywhere except Melbourne and Tassie in Australia due to climate.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I genuinely believe we are at the start of the tipping point. Solar is going to come so hard and so fast that it is going to make people's head spin.

I expect over 90% of coal generation will be gone in 30 years. What remains will be kept to power energy intensive 24hr industry while true renewable base load technologies mature. We'll find these industries will have to move to industrial parks to access this power. The rise of the microgrids at neighbourhood level will render the large capacities pole and wire network obsolete.

As an Electrical Contractor I installed my first off grid system last year. The technology is there already and reasonably priced. All it is waiting on is the battery prices to come down. If they follow the cost of PV panels, within 10 years it will be at the point where for the home consumer it is uneconomical to stay connected to the grid. Add to that the impact the Tesla 3 and and other EVs will have. Imagine not having an electrical or petrol bill each month.

Give it 3 or 4 years, the government of the day will have to quit hedging their bets and back solar over coal instead of having a foot in each camp as they do now.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I genuinely believe we are at the start of the tipping point. Solar is going to come so hard and so fast that it is going to make people's head spin.

I expect over 90% of coal generation will be gone in 30 years. What remains will be kept to power energy intensive 24hr industry while true renewable base load technologies mature. We'll find these industries will have to move to industrial parks to access this power. The rise of the microgrids at neighbourhood level will render the large capacities pole and wire network obsolete.

As an Electrical Contractor I installed my first off grid system last year. The technology is there already and reasonably priced. All it is waiting on is the battery prices to come down. If they follow the cost of PV panels, within 10 years it will be at the point where for the home consumer it is uneconomical to stay connected to the grid. Add to that the impact the Tesla 3 and and other EVs will have. Imagine not having an electrical or petrol bill each month.

Give it 3 or 4 years, the government of the day will have to quit hedging their bets and back solar over coal instead of having a foot in each camp as they do now.

I hope you're right, but I'd back political expediency and bastardry to triumph for a while longer. I mean, they are well-practised.
I'm thinking about going PV and battery myself - got a few things to sort first but I'm interested in the idea.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I hope you're right, but I'd back political expediency and bastardry to triumph for a while longer. I mean, they are well-practised.
I'm thinking about going PV and battery myself - got a few things to sort first but I'm interested in the idea.
Agreed on the bastadry, I don't have any hope that the Politicians would make the shift themselves. The great hope has to be that most of the energy companies heavily invested in coal are quickly diversifying into Solar because they've seen the writing on the wall. Despite the Qld gov giving approval for the Adani coal mine today, I don't think they'll ever dig a cubic meter of coal out of the ground there.

If you don't already have PV, you can't go wrong getting it now. Just make sure the Inverter is future battery compatible.

Batteries for grid connected people are still a break even scenario at this point. Which is a stupid way to look at it really. Even at break even financially it's a big win for the environment. But I'll step back and let Pfitzy destroy your ear on that issue.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Agreed on the bastadry, I don't have any hope that the Politicians would make the shift themselves. The great hope has to be that most of the energy companies heavily invested in coal are quickly diversifying into Solar because they've seen the writing on the wall. Despite the Qld gov giving approval for the Adani coal mine today, I don't think they'll ever dig a cubic meter of coal out of the ground there.

If you don't already have PV, you can't go wrong getting it now. Just make sure the Inverter is future battery compatible.

Batteries for grid connected people are still a break even scenario at this point. Which is a stupid way to look at it really. Even at break even financially it's a big win for the environment. But I'll step back and let Pfitzy destroy your ear on that issue.
Gee, thanks.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
I can't believe I only just saw this thread again. Bend over fuckers, the Truthmobile has a new highway to plough!

Nah I've got all my shit over on my website which you should all know off by heart and read religiously.

It is interesting to read about some new green initiatives, but I need to take issue with this:



I'm not against off-grid. I think there are cirumstances where it is more than warranted e.g. rural places where you've picked a beaut location, but the power company needs to run infrastructure, for example

http://www.afr.com/personal-finance/how-to-cut-energy-costs-by-going-off-the-grid-20160229-gn6clg

If you can't see that one behind a paywall or something, basically:

General practitioner Andrea Ray was not particularly green before she built her dream home in a semi-rural location outside Adelaide, and she certainly wasn't a hippy.
But when SA Power quoted upwards of $100,000 to bring power to the block of land, in a picturesque range 10 minutes from South Australia's McLaren Vale, she and her husband, Alistair, were immediately attracted to the idea of living off the grid.
"When they added in the substation and trenching, they were talking $150,000 to $200,000 and that's when we considered other options," says Ray. "We met several companies including Zen Energy and, with a few small changes to the original plans, we were able to be nearly entirely energy self-sufficient."
They opted for the Zen Freedom PowerBank energy storage system, which cost $120,000, saving them at least $50,000 in set-up costs.


Pretty easy financial decision. Especially if the land you buy is going to be cheap as chips and you're building your Forever Home on it.

But this is an extreme case - 90% of us live in an urbanised area, where grid setups are in place, and spending $120K just for the sake of not buying power is utterly ridiculous when it is relatively cheap to have it as a backup.

Further, if you're going to spend the money on getting the battery, then step up again for green credentials and get a provider who can deliver green power.

Up until the last couple of years, most systems were 2kW of panels or less. I think we'll now start to see the 4kW+ systems being the norm, with around 5kW being the average.

A lot of the inverter market caters for around the 5kW mark, because they understand that in terms of roof space this is about the maximum most people can hold, or will be prepared to spend on.

The battery systems people will then want to install depend on a few things, but you'd consider systems like the Powerwall the absolute bottom of the market as far as storage capacity goes.

For 6.4kWh it gets me through most nights, but its not going to get me off-grid. If its about 80% or more at sundown, on an average night where the house burns ~0.5kWh from sundown to 10PM then ~200 through to dawn, it will go through with capacity left.

The good news is a lot of competitors are entering the market and that will set up some competition once the early adopter phase settles down, and numbers start to come to the fore. Some manufacturers are offering stackable units, with a base of ~6kWh and additional slots of 1.2ish kWh to add on as budget and space permits.



I'd be watching Victoria and South Australia as touchstone markets, because the former has massive price issues with its consumer base, and the latter is somewhat isolated on the end of the South Eastern grid, and looking to make itself a renewables hub:

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2016/sa-...o-fast-track-adelaide-zero-carbon-plans-50716

They want to grow an industry at the very least.

The ACT is going gangbusters with this stuff. Putting up wind farms and massive solar arrays almost with abandon, and putting batteries into domestic application with subsidies:

http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/canberra-battery-subsidy-em5260/

If you ever do the drive to Cooma via the ACT, you'll have seen the Royalla farm:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-03/royalla-solar-farm-opens-south-of-canberra/5716500
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Oh just by the by - on my latest ravings on the site I've been tracking the import versus export. If I get to 2.5 export for each import its break even for the usage.

Currently running at 3:1 - means I'm chopping into the connection fee slightly at the moment to the tune of ~$60 per annum (of $300). ROI if that holds is then 8.07 years.

We'll see how that holds up over winter.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Pfitzy, how much work are you doing on the energy use side of the equation?

I've read your stuff on house design and heat mitigation - is that extending to behaviour change when using some of the more power-intense applicances in the home?

I live with a greenie in a rental property so the use of power is pretty much the main lever we have at our disposal.

I'm a slow learner, but the simple practice over time of not blasting the AC/heating except in the more extreme temperature days/nights, switching off lights, switching off appliances at the wall etc. has become fairly well embedded and we see dividends in the power bills.

There's obviously a limit and nobody wants to be a luddite when it can be avoided, but have you found yourself going down that path?
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Simply put: as much as possible.

Washing machine/dishwasher on timers to run when the sun is (hopefully) out. Switching shit off at the wall at night to save more power there.

The option might be there in future years to look at smarter devices that only run when the panels are cranking.

I did the sums today: between the panels and battery I'm paying about 55 cents a day for power, including connection fee
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
Switching shit off at the wall at night to save more power there.
I've had the idea for a while that when I wire new homes I should be wiring in a specific power circuit for devices that waste standby power.

It would just be a power point wired at each area where you want to switch those devices off. Behind the TV, stereo/AV and maybe office/computer room. I would wire it through a switch at a convenient location so as you went to bed at night and flicked it off you would isolate all those devices plugged into the specific Power points in one go. The power points would be labelled to say what they are for and in most places I've mentioned you have two double power points anyway. So one on per permanently for devices that don't like to be switched off (fucking Foxtel box) and the other as described above.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Top idea.

Offer this isolator/kill switch particularly for AV rooms (which are becoming more common), maybe inside the nearest AV cabinet etc. or in the pantry/under the stairs.

Not sure how practical it is, but if you got coloured power points for killswitch and linked it to a coloured switch panel, that might make it easier for the user.

Kind of like how UPS are often run out to red power points.
 

terry j

Ron Walden (29)
'On average', what sort of levels are we looking at for these phantom power sucking devices? Whilst small individually, I imagine a few of them all day every day starts to add up.

Trouble with turning the foxtel box off is it takes forever to come back on line. Must try the power switch. That prob turns on quick.
 
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