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Lance is a cheat? Yes or no

Lance is a cheat?

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Garry Owen

Chris McKivat (8)
I think all of us sport followers need to take a reality check. For us watching, we love the competition, maybe imagining that they are all drug free, and it is purely genetics (and training), mano-e-mano.

In reality, for the competitors it's a living. At the end of the day, they need to take home their salary, pay the mortgage, the bills on the fridge, kiss their wife and kids, and sleep well. And on game day, if they don't come up to the grade, their value, and soon their pay/endorsements, go down with it.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. Look into your kids eyes and then tell me what you'd do?


Michael Lynagh (62)
Sorry, late to this thread.

Firstly, of course he doped. Any cycling fan knows it. The EPO era in the 90s to mid 2000s the peloton flew up mountains. Lance was one of many, but US Postal seemed to have better "programs" than some other teams.

Secondly, Lance has one of the best PR schemes going who peddle the same old myths.

500 tests? Rubbish. Not even close.

Never tested positive? Yes he did. TdF 2001 for testosterone but he got got a back dated TUE from a doctor. Rumours are also of a TdSuisse positive that was covered up after a payment to the UCI. And then there's the 1999 EPO positive from his frozen samples. Not to mention the 2009 biological passport values where his blood values IMPROVED over the course of the TdF - a physiological impossibility.

Then there's the smoke. His ex-teammates now confessions. Other ex-teammates getting busted once they move to other teams. Most of the guys he beat being eventually busted.


Finally, there's the teams doctors. One has to wonder why doctors do cycling training programs. Or why cycling teams hire gynacologists.

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
The people I feel for are the young and talented cyclists who at some stage will have to make the choice of doping or leaving the sport they love. The immensely talented Christophe Bassons is a prime example.

For those who admire professional cyclists but hate drugs, this long interview with Floyd Landis is pretty chilling stuff. It's hard to think that Armstrong is innocent after reading it.


Every junkie has a day of reckoning.


Stan Wickham (3)
The yanks are a great source of entertainment. I love reading their threads on whether Lance doped or not - there are a lot of Lance haters over there, probably more than live in France. Many of them must live very sad lives, let it go guys, just let it go. Cleaning up a sport is about detecting cheats now. Detecting cheats from the past has not cleaned up their sport - Cofidis rider kicked out of tour the other day. Where there is big money in sport there will always be drugs. I get the feeling that the head of USADA wants his 15 minutes of fame and would end up with too much egg on face if he backed down now. If he is serious about cleaning up cycling then offering 6 months suspensions to other riders, as has been reported, to provide evidence against Lance is unacceptable. If anyone takes any PED then that is cheating and they should be given a life ban.


Bill McLean (32)
Why a life ban? Strip them of wins etc ban for 2 years and keep testing them during the ban if they want to come back, bring them back clean. Make them engage in anti-drug education programs with kids etc.

Garry Owen

Chris McKivat (8)
Something to consider.

With the result of the Wiggins v Cadel TDF, and in light of the Brits complaints in this Olympics, it reminded me of home much the road races are as much a team event, despite the medal given to only one person. So how much consequence is levied on Lance, when all of his team members are found to be on the gear? If his team was not as competitive, would he have been?


Guys, huge news:


I am only guessing here, but you just simply do not drop your fight against drug charges because you are "weary".

He is probably going to be stripped of his titles and forever be known as a drug cheat. Fuck me, you just keep fighting if you are innocent.

All I can take from this is that evidence has come out that proves his guilt, and he knows it.

Forever known as a drug cheat.


Mark Loane (55)
Got to know when your case is hopeless. No one knows the identitiy of 7 of the 10 witnesses that were to give evidence at his USADA trial. If one or two were the doctors that adminstered the program it would be like a golden bullet.

History has caught up with him.

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Huge news.
I wonder what protection his sponsors have and I wonder if any can claw back payments made: its like he took their money under false pretences.
We need to see all those wins reallocated to see which cheat rider sits where now....if theyre all doing it he's still the best rider. (joke)


Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Yeah I'd say he'd rather just let this go without having to admit everything in a court-room. If none of this evidence see's the light of day then he will be much better remembered as an athlete, and less of a cheat. (compared to a world in which this court case does take place)

As for sponsors getting money back and all... I don't think that will happen considering hundreds of big name cyclists have been caught doping before and never has anything like that happened. It's a pretty obvious risk when sponsoring pro cycling.

We need to see all those wins reallocated to see which cheat rider sits where now..if theyre all doing it he's still the best rider. (joke)

I'd say the GC class will just be "no contest" or something now. They can't re-allocate 7 wins when most of the top 10 have been caught as well.

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Also the sponsors did get what they were seeking at that point of time, they got value for money.If they are still aligned with him now, it might be a different story.


Michael Lynagh (62)
i presume you mean male teams - do they really?:eek:

Yes. Some team doctors were gynecologists.

BTW, here's one of cycling's infamous doctors (who was a gynecologist):


And another infamous cycling doctor (not a gynecologist), none other than Armstrong's former doctor, now under a lifetime ban:


And yes, Ferrari still does "training programs" for cyclists, the most recent being Pozzato.



Knitter of the Scarf
Very good news. Sends a clear message to cycling hopefuls: if you cheat, we'll get you in the end.


About time he's finally gotten caught out. Happy with this result.

I agree, but I am still wondering about the "caught out" bit.

This will never see the light of a courtroom, so all we can surmise is that he knew the ganme was up and withdrew to minimise the publicity compared to a long, draw out court battle.

He still claims innocence, mind you. Still, hard to feel he is right when he submits so easily, knowing what this would do to his reputation AND his charity.


Very good news. Sends a clear message to cycling hopefuls: if you cheat, we'll get you in the end.

True, but Armstrong also made millions. So he loses his titles and his reputation. The guy can still live a very comfortable life from his cheating.

They should be treated like drug bosses; go after their assets as well as their titles.
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