Magners League, Top 14 and GP
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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Thomond78 said:
T78
It's not surprising that Knox behaved like that nor was the spray that he gave everybody and sundry after he left surprising. Some may say he's a colourful eccentric, others a foul mouthed lout, but in Oz we'd call him a yobbo.
He played and coached Randwick but no opprobrium should be attached to the club because Cheika and Gaffney did too and they are estimable people. For that matter: so did Bob Dwyer play for and coach the Green Slime, though he had the odd colourful moment.
Brian Smith is well known here in both codes of rugby. Rumour was that Wallabies coach Alan Jones fancied him and not just as a player, but that it neither here nor there.
We know about all those guys but not about McGahan, or at least I didn't. I knew Munster had an Oz assistant coach and when I googled him his name at that time it rang a bell in retrospect, but I didn't know that he had played for the Brisbane Broncos league team at one time. Exposure as a young man to Wayne Bennett, the master coach of rugby league, would have done him no harm.
Before the Leinster v Munster match there was a good deal of chat by commentators in the studio and at the ground, Neil Francis and Donal Lenihan, about the Oz coaches in Europe and how well Oz rugby will be set up when these coaches return home, but I reckon that unless they get the Wallabies Head Coach role, we wouldn't be able to afford them.
Gaffney, who was once assistant at the Waratahs, is too old now but the other 3 mentioned above may not be interested in coming back even for a Head Coach gig for a S14 team - though maybe I over-estimate what they are paid over there.
As an aside: I find it puzzling that our guys are getting these gigs. I haven't had a high opinion of Oz coaching judging them by looking at the technical shortcomings of some Oz teams at all levels in recent years. I had hopes that Oz coaching stocks would rise after a few years of ARC (semi-pro) rugby, but that lasted only one year.
I'm sure our fellows are doing a good job in the NH, but I wonder on what basis they were recruited. What about career paths for Irish coaches? How does a fellow like Kiwi Jonno Gibbes - nice fellow and good player - get Jim Williams' forwards coaching job in front of an Irishman of more experience?
PS
How do you think Deccie will go with the Ireland job? I read something in a rugby magazine that when he had that 1 year break in Leinster he couldn't wait to get back home. Is he just a Munster man, and a provincial man?
And will the journos have any better luck with him answering their questions than they did with him when he was at Munster?
PPS
Good luck to the lads in their match against Glasgow in the opening match at the new Thomond Park Stadium.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Right, to deal with some of those; McGahan originally came in as a defence coach when Singleton went to Ireland. He did a superb job, started doing the backs as well, and when the time came, we were more than happy to promote him. Jim would have got the job if you hadn't poached him, btw. Munster are, more and more, running a boot room a la Anfield in the good old days (Sean Payne is now the manager) where we bring through our own.
The best young Irish coach is, for mine, Brian Walsh at Con [spitttttt...]. Squeaky will make it, but the problem is that Bradley at Connacht is a) going nowhere in all senses of the word b) bed-blocking. The guy who should be given the arse is Matt Williams at Ulster, as he's ruining them. Hands up anyone who's surprised. Anyone? Anyone...?
There aren't many really good Irish coaches coming through as we didn't put much investment into it. That is changing, but the five year gap that happened will take time to sort itself out. Gaillimh could be worth a punt in a few years as well, given how Shannon are playing.
Johnno Gibbes didn't get Jim's job, as he's at Leinster. Your penance will be five Our Gaillimhs and five Hail Clohessys, and let me hear you make a good Act of Contrition...
Deccie is a former teacher and coach of mine. My father is his lawyer, as it happens. Deccie came home because his father had recently died, his mother was ill and the Munster job came free. It just all fitted. He is very proud of being Munster, but not narrowly provincial. He certainly doesn't carry the grudges that Cooder did, and has shown refreshing signs of not buying into some of the Ladyboy self-glorification. Slackers will not be tolerated, end of discussion.
The journos, however, can prepare for a long, hard time, especially the acolytes of Cooder who used try to knife Deccie on the instructions of the IRFU hacks (and there were such journos).
Got my ticket for TP. My 10 year seat is eight rows up in the East stand right on the 22, at the end of an aisle, right by the exit. I can have a beer and be back in my seat in about a minute. How bad! Looking forward to the first Munster match there, alright.
The best young Irish coach is, for mine, Brian Walsh at Con [spitttttt...]. Squeaky will make it, but the problem is that Bradley at Connacht is a) going nowhere in all senses of the word b) bed-blocking. The guy who should be given the arse is Matt Williams at Ulster, as he's ruining them. Hands up anyone who's surprised. Anyone? Anyone...?
There aren't many really good Irish coaches coming through as we didn't put much investment into it. That is changing, but the five year gap that happened will take time to sort itself out. Gaillimh could be worth a punt in a few years as well, given how Shannon are playing.
Johnno Gibbes didn't get Jim's job, as he's at Leinster. Your penance will be five Our Gaillimhs and five Hail Clohessys, and let me hear you make a good Act of Contrition...
Deccie is a former teacher and coach of mine. My father is his lawyer, as it happens. Deccie came home because his father had recently died, his mother was ill and the Munster job came free. It just all fitted. He is very proud of being Munster, but not narrowly provincial. He certainly doesn't carry the grudges that Cooder did, and has shown refreshing signs of not buying into some of the Ladyboy self-glorification. Slackers will not be tolerated, end of discussion.
The journos, however, can prepare for a long, hard time, especially the acolytes of Cooder who used try to knife Deccie on the instructions of the IRFU hacks (and there were such journos).
Got my ticket for TP. My 10 year seat is eight rows up in the East stand right on the 22, at the end of an aisle, right by the exit. I can have a beer and be back in my seat in about a minute. How bad! Looking forward to the first Munster match there, alright.
Going through your post:
- McGahan, yeah, but I wonder how he got the assistant's job in the first place. I can see why Jim Williams got the assitant job there being a respected player and leader on the field, but McGahan?
- As for Cheika and Knox: they were coaching a Sydney club team that was principally amateur and McGahan wasn't even at that level. Australian rugby doesn't invest in coaching any less than Ireland does. Gibbes at Leinster? Experience zero. [Yeah I knew Gibbes got the Leinster job but I get these short circuits every now and then].
- Thanks for that info on Deccie. That makes more sense to me. The article was written by one Tom English for Rugby World.
He also said:
- DK works his socks of to help combat his insecurity as a coach at the top level.
- He's incapable of making a quick decision.
- Getting a proper discussion with DK has become an Olympic sport.
The IRFU were uncertain about him, scoured the world looking for alternatives and gave the job to DK only when they accepted there were none.
But he did give say that Munster people would never forget what he did when he eventually got the Munster job and inherited "a suspicious rabble". And he mentioned his astute substitution of Shaun Payne with young Denis Hurley (which surprised me, incidentally) in the HC last year and also replacing Stringer with an untested O'Leary.
- No, as a Tahs tragic I am not surprised, by how well Ulster is doing with Matt Williams - though looking at their team sheet they are hardly the equivalent of Chelsea etc. Matt didn't even do well in Sydney club rugby on his return here after getting fired by Scotland.
Your tickets are on the east side? I hope there aren't many day games else you'll get the sun in your eyes.
- McGahan, yeah, but I wonder how he got the assistant's job in the first place. I can see why Jim Williams got the assitant job there being a respected player and leader on the field, but McGahan?
- As for Cheika and Knox: they were coaching a Sydney club team that was principally amateur and McGahan wasn't even at that level. Australian rugby doesn't invest in coaching any less than Ireland does. Gibbes at Leinster? Experience zero. [Yeah I knew Gibbes got the Leinster job but I get these short circuits every now and then].
- Thanks for that info on Deccie. That makes more sense to me. The article was written by one Tom English for Rugby World.
He also said:
- DK works his socks of to help combat his insecurity as a coach at the top level.
- He's incapable of making a quick decision.
- Getting a proper discussion with DK has become an Olympic sport.
The IRFU were uncertain about him, scoured the world looking for alternatives and gave the job to DK only when they accepted there were none.
But he did give say that Munster people would never forget what he did when he eventually got the Munster job and inherited "a suspicious rabble". And he mentioned his astute substitution of Shaun Payne with young Denis Hurley (which surprised me, incidentally) in the HC last year and also replacing Stringer with an untested O'Leary.
- No, as a Tahs tragic I am not surprised, by how well Ulster is doing with Matt Williams - though looking at their team sheet they are hardly the equivalent of Chelsea etc. Matt didn't even do well in Sydney club rugby on his return here after getting fired by Scotland.
Your tickets are on the east side? I hope there aren't many day games else you'll get the sun in your eyes.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
English was part of the Independent stable. One of Cooder's boys. Talk to Gerry Thornley, you get a very different perspective.
What you have to remember is this; the IRFU clique did their level best to destroy Deccie. After he'd taken Munster to two HEC finals in three years (and but for the shocking decision that led to the introduction of the TMO in the HEC, it would have been three), he was appointed as deputy to Cooder. Cooder knifed him, relentlessly, and viciously, as Cooder knifed Gatland before.
Before the 2003 RWC, all coaching positions were supposed to be up for review post-RWC. Except that, shortly before it, Cooder gets a new four-year contract. Not surprisingly, Deccie started asking what the fuck was going on. And was promptly given the arse.
He applied for the Ulster job, and the IRFU stepped in to prevent it. Said he could have a bullshit "development" job which would mean he'd never coach again, thus preventing him from being a threat to Cooder the Vile. He then got the job with the NG Dragons. At the time, his dad, who was a lovely, lovely man, wasn't well. When the Leinster job came up, he applied. At which stage the Dragons, to their eternal credit, said, "Look, we understand, of course" and he went.
He then came up against the Ladyboy egos, who didn't like being told that they weren't galacticos. They won every pool game, but got the lard kicked out of them by Leicester up front. Given what's happened to them since, it would seem to indicate that they'd have been well advised to listen to Deccie, but that would have required a bit of humility and sense on the part of some big-name players who've since shown very little of either - to their detriment.
Deccie had applied for the Munster job that was coming vacant, with Gaff going to Aus. At which stage, his father said, "You need a right bollocks. I'll give you T78 Snr's number." He got the job. Cue screams of, "Judas" from the Ladyboy gimps who never wanted him. Come a sunny, sunny, day in Landsdowne Road at the end of April, after which proctologists' surgeries around Leinster were full for weeks dealing with the fact that the Ladyboys got torn a new arse by Deccie's Munster. And then that day of days, the day that we'd feared would never come, when we won the HEC.
Meanwhile, Thornley has had enough of blatant lies from Cooder, and starts pointing them out. Cooder is in the process of killing an incredibly good team through rank stupidity, including statements to the effect that he won't pick players as long as they play at the team that his one serious rival, Deccie, coaches. His contract runs out post-2008 6N. Pre-2007 RWC, he gets a new four-year contract. To silence from the team, when announced.
Comes the Coodercide of 2007. Cooder stays in his job in the 2008 6N, and proves he's like the Bourbons and has forgotten no grudge while learning nothing. We get hockeyed. Meantime, the same players under Deccie put Europe to fire and the sword.
Cooder finally, and three years too late, gets the arse. To save their own arses, the Blazers have to find someone. They want the son-in-law of the Chief Blazer to get the job, so he gets appointed for the tour to the SH. Meanwhile, the Blazers search desperately for someone, anyone, who will get them out of the jam of having hung the best Irish coach of his generation out to dry for years. Thornley, amongst others, tactfully points out that if they try giving the arse to a guy with a better HEC coaching record than anyone, including Ian McGeechan, bar Guy Noves, then they will shortly be adorning the lamp-posts of Limerick and Cork.
Every other coach who could take the job realises this, and that the core of their squad would be in open revolt against them as a result, and tells the Blazers to go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
The Blazers finally fold, and Deccie gets the job.
Gotta love rugby adminstration, huh?
To give a flavour of what English is like; Deccie has been coach of Munster twice, was hugely regarded as the coach of Dolphin, had won Christ alone knows how many senior schools titles with Pres (one of which I wasn't playing in, for which he has subsequently apologised to me as being wrong, which is a huge fucking consolation at not being up on the wall... :'( ) and had won an U-19 FIRA RWC as coach.
As for Ulster - Williams left two of their best players wander off. Ulster simply couldn't afford to lose Tommy Bowe, now tearing up the place for the Ospreys, but he let him go all the same. Dolt.
What you have to remember is this; the IRFU clique did their level best to destroy Deccie. After he'd taken Munster to two HEC finals in three years (and but for the shocking decision that led to the introduction of the TMO in the HEC, it would have been three), he was appointed as deputy to Cooder. Cooder knifed him, relentlessly, and viciously, as Cooder knifed Gatland before.
Before the 2003 RWC, all coaching positions were supposed to be up for review post-RWC. Except that, shortly before it, Cooder gets a new four-year contract. Not surprisingly, Deccie started asking what the fuck was going on. And was promptly given the arse.
He applied for the Ulster job, and the IRFU stepped in to prevent it. Said he could have a bullshit "development" job which would mean he'd never coach again, thus preventing him from being a threat to Cooder the Vile. He then got the job with the NG Dragons. At the time, his dad, who was a lovely, lovely man, wasn't well. When the Leinster job came up, he applied. At which stage the Dragons, to their eternal credit, said, "Look, we understand, of course" and he went.
He then came up against the Ladyboy egos, who didn't like being told that they weren't galacticos. They won every pool game, but got the lard kicked out of them by Leicester up front. Given what's happened to them since, it would seem to indicate that they'd have been well advised to listen to Deccie, but that would have required a bit of humility and sense on the part of some big-name players who've since shown very little of either - to their detriment.
Deccie had applied for the Munster job that was coming vacant, with Gaff going to Aus. At which stage, his father said, "You need a right bollocks. I'll give you T78 Snr's number." He got the job. Cue screams of, "Judas" from the Ladyboy gimps who never wanted him. Come a sunny, sunny, day in Landsdowne Road at the end of April, after which proctologists' surgeries around Leinster were full for weeks dealing with the fact that the Ladyboys got torn a new arse by Deccie's Munster. And then that day of days, the day that we'd feared would never come, when we won the HEC.
Meanwhile, Thornley has had enough of blatant lies from Cooder, and starts pointing them out. Cooder is in the process of killing an incredibly good team through rank stupidity, including statements to the effect that he won't pick players as long as they play at the team that his one serious rival, Deccie, coaches. His contract runs out post-2008 6N. Pre-2007 RWC, he gets a new four-year contract. To silence from the team, when announced.
Comes the Coodercide of 2007. Cooder stays in his job in the 2008 6N, and proves he's like the Bourbons and has forgotten no grudge while learning nothing. We get hockeyed. Meantime, the same players under Deccie put Europe to fire and the sword.
Cooder finally, and three years too late, gets the arse. To save their own arses, the Blazers have to find someone. They want the son-in-law of the Chief Blazer to get the job, so he gets appointed for the tour to the SH. Meanwhile, the Blazers search desperately for someone, anyone, who will get them out of the jam of having hung the best Irish coach of his generation out to dry for years. Thornley, amongst others, tactfully points out that if they try giving the arse to a guy with a better HEC coaching record than anyone, including Ian McGeechan, bar Guy Noves, then they will shortly be adorning the lamp-posts of Limerick and Cork.
Every other coach who could take the job realises this, and that the core of their squad would be in open revolt against them as a result, and tells the Blazers to go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.
The Blazers finally fold, and Deccie gets the job.
Gotta love rugby adminstration, huh?
To give a flavour of what English is like; Deccie has been coach of Munster twice, was hugely regarded as the coach of Dolphin, had won Christ alone knows how many senior schools titles with Pres (one of which I wasn't playing in, for which he has subsequently apologised to me as being wrong, which is a huge fucking consolation at not being up on the wall... :'( ) and had won an U-19 FIRA RWC as coach.
As for Ulster - Williams left two of their best players wander off. Ulster simply couldn't afford to lose Tommy Bowe, now tearing up the place for the Ospreys, but he let him go all the same. Dolt.
S
Spook
Guest
I think Ulster were already farked before Williams came over. Now they are just deeper in the poo. Williams is a tit. I remember he was claiming on TV (Setanta) that he was responsible for influencing Australian defensive tactics for several years (that is, Muggleton copied him) and also played a massive role in the development of Chris Latham as a player.
T78
Wow thanks for all of that. I had no idea that that stuff was going on.
And we think that board meetings of the ARU get petty over state issues. We have it good by comparison.
I particularly liked these bits - made me enjoy my Saturday morning cornflakes all the more.
Wow thanks for all of that. I had no idea that that stuff was going on.
And we think that board meetings of the ARU get petty over state issues. We have it good by comparison.
I particularly liked these bits - made me enjoy my Saturday morning cornflakes all the more.
Thomond78 said:
Munster 25 Glasgow 17
T78 should be crowing about this win ? the first match in the new and improved Thomond Park Stadium.
A pity about the rain because Munster showed their recent tendency to unload the pill, and not just in the opponents real estate. But once a couple of balls were spilt and the rain kept coming down, they had to cool it a bit.
Glasgow entered into the spirit of things on the opening of the new stadium with a gift try. At the 90 second mark somebody threw the ball in for a quick lineout on their own 1 metre line to the no. 8, who dropped it, and Munster scrummie Stringer scored.
It wasn?t the only good thing the little fella did all day either. He?s been stung by being dropped for a younger man but when Tomas O?Leary was injured during the week, he got a start and rolled back the years.
Munster couldn?t shake Glasgow off until deep into the 2nd half. The difference was 21 y.o. fullback Keith Earls. He made a few breaks that lead to tries and although Glasgow came back with a try of their own it was too late.
The arithmetic said that if Glasgow had got all their goals and not gifted that try they would have won but Munster looked like the better team.
The Wallabies are not playing Ireland on the EOYT but they will be worth watching. They have 3 young outside backs: Keith Earls (mentioned above), Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney (who we saw in Oz this winter). They won?t put them all on the park at the same time but they should all get a game.
Give them a look.
T78 should be crowing about this win ? the first match in the new and improved Thomond Park Stadium.
A pity about the rain because Munster showed their recent tendency to unload the pill, and not just in the opponents real estate. But once a couple of balls were spilt and the rain kept coming down, they had to cool it a bit.
Glasgow entered into the spirit of things on the opening of the new stadium with a gift try. At the 90 second mark somebody threw the ball in for a quick lineout on their own 1 metre line to the no. 8, who dropped it, and Munster scrummie Stringer scored.
It wasn?t the only good thing the little fella did all day either. He?s been stung by being dropped for a younger man but when Tomas O?Leary was injured during the week, he got a start and rolled back the years.
Munster couldn?t shake Glasgow off until deep into the 2nd half. The difference was 21 y.o. fullback Keith Earls. He made a few breaks that lead to tries and although Glasgow came back with a try of their own it was too late.
The arithmetic said that if Glasgow had got all their goals and not gifted that try they would have won but Munster looked like the better team.
The Wallabies are not playing Ireland on the EOYT but they will be worth watching. They have 3 young outside backs: Keith Earls (mentioned above), Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney (who we saw in Oz this winter). They won?t put them all on the park at the same time but they should all get a game.
Give them a look.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Strings didn't just pass and run well - he defended like a mad thing. He was covering the 10 channel on defensive scrums, and made every tackle. 
Earls was superb. He's the real deal, make no doubt about it.
My seat, I am glad to report, has a fantastic view, and is comfortable as. I am a happy boy on that front. And on the stadium generally; dry, to which I will return, it works, and the atmosphere is every bit as good as it ever was, which we were worried about. When the first Fields started softly around the new TP, every hair on the back of my neck stood up.
Lineout's improving, which is good; think it's getting used to a system.
We should have had the bonus, but left it behind us. It's matters of half-inches; some day soon, it's going to click, and when it does, some team is going to take the mother and father of a shellacking from us. Defence is excellent at the moment as well.
Have to talk about the ref; so ass-clownish was he that we thought he was Scottish (turns out he's English). Just plain incompetent and inconsistent. At one stage, a ball that was a foot inside the touchline was called straight out; the ref and the rest of the ground saw it, he did nothing. There was one first-half ruck where a Glasgow guy literally crawled through the middle in front of him, in clear view, and pulled the ball back on the ground - nothing. No consistency at all in calling the lineout, and he let Glasgow turn into an open farce with the delay in getting the ball in. Hope never to see him on any stage again, still less one where we're playing.
Glasgow weren't bad, dogged, but negative as all get out.
The weather also played a part. It was absolutely filthy, and had been chucking down all day. You couldn't see it on television, but there was a mist of rain over the pitch for the whole game. As soon as we left the ground, I was soaked in five minutes flat. It wasn't as bad as the Wasps match in January solely because there wasn't as much wind, but it was God-bloody-awful. Playing some of the rugby we did in those conditions is a serious achievement, not least for the last try - which was, simply, beautiful, as well as scarily fast.
Montauban on Friday in the HEC. We need a big game on Friday.
Earls was superb. He's the real deal, make no doubt about it.
My seat, I am glad to report, has a fantastic view, and is comfortable as. I am a happy boy on that front. And on the stadium generally; dry, to which I will return, it works, and the atmosphere is every bit as good as it ever was, which we were worried about. When the first Fields started softly around the new TP, every hair on the back of my neck stood up.
Lineout's improving, which is good; think it's getting used to a system.
We should have had the bonus, but left it behind us. It's matters of half-inches; some day soon, it's going to click, and when it does, some team is going to take the mother and father of a shellacking from us. Defence is excellent at the moment as well.
Have to talk about the ref; so ass-clownish was he that we thought he was Scottish (turns out he's English). Just plain incompetent and inconsistent. At one stage, a ball that was a foot inside the touchline was called straight out; the ref and the rest of the ground saw it, he did nothing. There was one first-half ruck where a Glasgow guy literally crawled through the middle in front of him, in clear view, and pulled the ball back on the ground - nothing. No consistency at all in calling the lineout, and he let Glasgow turn into an open farce with the delay in getting the ball in. Hope never to see him on any stage again, still less one where we're playing.
Glasgow weren't bad, dogged, but negative as all get out.
The weather also played a part. It was absolutely filthy, and had been chucking down all day. You couldn't see it on television, but there was a mist of rain over the pitch for the whole game. As soon as we left the ground, I was soaked in five minutes flat. It wasn't as bad as the Wasps match in January solely because there wasn't as much wind, but it was God-bloody-awful. Playing some of the rugby we did in those conditions is a serious achievement, not least for the last try - which was, simply, beautiful, as well as scarily fast.
Montauban on Friday in the HEC. We need a big game on Friday.
S
Spook
Guest
Any probs with the surface and drainage? Looked boggy
T
TOCC
Guest
on the topic of Coaches, keep a eye out for a coach in QLD, Pat Richards, he took St Laurences College 1stXV undefeated through the AIC season and then also coached Easts to a premiership over much higher fancied opponents.
His being coaching schools rugby for quite a few years now and has done quite well in that time, possibly not a good thing but if i were to compare him and his tactics to a current coach he is a bit of a John Connoly style coach.
His being coaching schools rugby for quite a few years now and has done quite well in that time, possibly not a good thing but if i were to compare him and his tactics to a current coach he is a bit of a John Connoly style coach.
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