National Rugby Championship 2014

[Dave Beat]

I heard that Randwick is doing all the work to get into the NRC. Easts are trying to rebuild financially and don't want to be distracted by the NRC. I don't see it as Randwick's fault that they are leading things here. All JVs whether sport or business end up getting the spoils allocated based on the contribution made by the individuals. I think Easts should be queried for not supporting the bid with more resources rather than Randwick being criticised for having a go and getting behind the NRC.

MACCA that's why I said "from the outside".
Randwick is doing all the work???? - maybe in their eyes, and to benefit solely them - it appears (from the outside)???

Okay then, why are South talking with the Rams? Is it because that is their preference or is it because Randwick only wanted it their way, and one way.

"If" Easts are talking to Country (which you said you've heard) they obviously want to be involved in the NRC and doing what they can to be involved so why;
- do you say above don't want to be distracted by the NRC?
- so why aren't Easts / Randwick working?

Shouldn't it be South Harbor working together for South Harbor?

As i have said, from the outside it appears Randwick want it all about Randwick - Southern are working with the Rams, and Easts are looking for people to work with. As a number of people have posted before me - Southern / Easts / Randwick in a Southern Harbor team just looks like commonsense.

 

[Quick Hands]

Does anyone get the feeling that "they" (whoever "they" are) want this to be more or less ARC mark 2. The Sydney Fleet will be 2 teams this time, but the rest are the same as last time.

Hard to tell what "they" want because "they" aren't saying anything.

I'm a little baffled by the whole process actually.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that "they" were deliberately vague in the criteria for selection in case "they" didn't end up with they teams that "they" wanted.

At the risk of over-simplifying, don't you just pick the bet 10 bids based on pre-determined criteria?

You can place geographic criteria in their to ensure that you get a spread if you want, but really, if Randwick and Easts don't want to go in it together, let's move on. I can't really see the point of a shotgun marriage between the two, which would lead to endless internal squabbles.

If whatever bid that Randwick are part of meets the criteria, it should be in the mix and if it is in the best 10 bids, it should be in the competition. (ideally they would be part of a Easts/Randwick/Souths/UNSW jv, but if that's going to happen drop it)

IMO, trying to engineer the teams that "they" want isn't necessarily going to work. Remember, "they" created that sort of arrangement in the ARC and it failed miserably.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
IMO, trying to engineer the teams that "they" want isn't necessarily going to work. Remember, "they" created that sort of arrangement in the ARC and it failed miserably.

ARC failed miserably more for logistic reasons than for team composition reasons, but your point is valid.

Here is Hugh's Hypotherical thought bubble for the day:

In the event of the inevitable implosion of Mungodom, and the Mungo clubs finally start playing proper Rugby, who would win out over say Beasts and Chooks, Rabbits and Randwick, Two Blues and Eels, Hobbits and Dragons, Emus and Penruff Panthers etc for tribal loyalties and the "licence" to play Shute Shield or NRC or whatever the next incarnation of Rugby is?

 

[Bruce Ross]

the inevitable implosion of Mungodom,

League is obviously decaying, Huge, but it will be an eternity dying. And unless our code in this country reinvents itself we will be irrelevant long before they become so. They have an army of rusted-on, blinkered, one-eyed fans who are totally unfazed by assaults on female partners and random strangers, players ending up punch drunk, gravy trains and sundry other outrages.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The game that is played in Heaven may continue to be niche in Australia, but worldwide it appears to be growing at a very fast rate compared to Loig which maintains a stranglehold on Leeds, parts of Auckland, and the Esatern Seaboard of Australia.

If we are to stay niche in Australia, if not relegated to the status of Field Hockey, while we promote values such as these http://qjru.com.au/2013/05/29/respecting-women-expectations-of-the-rugby-man-by-michael-jeh/ through the JGC/NGS programmes, it is worth supporting to the very end.

 

[Quick Hands]

HJ, we are already at about the same status as field hockey and similar sports. The main thing that we have going for us is that we have an entrenched position of privilege in the private school system. This is where most of our player development occurs and the old boys seem influential enough to keep it going there and in certain parts of Sydney.

The other thing that we have going for us is the international nature of the game. Particularly the fact that it's the major sport in countries with which we have close cultural links - England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, NZ, SAF and the Pacific Islands. This gives us regular international competition with which AFL and NRL can't compete - soccer has a greater international presence, but it's international programme is vastly different to the traditional Australian idea of test matches. Rugby and cricket satisfy the need for regular international competition of the test match variety.

 

[Quick Hands]

ARC failed miserably more for logistic reasons than for team composition reasons, but your point is valid.

True, but don't underestimate the positive effect of letting people/clubs work things out for themselves. Even with the best intentions, trying to structure teams with a preconceived idea of what "they" think is best, is just not how human nature works. We're genetically conditioned to act emotionally at times despite what might be considered our own best interests and trying to fight thousands of years of human behaviour is doomed to fail.

From a logical, business perspective, having Randwick, Easts, Souths and UNSW in a joint venture makes perfect sense, but if they hate each other's guts so much that they can't get together, how is a forced union going to result in a successful sporting team?

Sometimes we learn from failure and come out better for it - we need to learn lessons from the failed ARC and not repeat the same mistakes. Forced groupings of clubs was a significant reason for the failure and were the locations at which some of the teams played.

I mean how simple are the principles involved here? :

1. You set out criteria in order to achieve the best result
2. You compare each bid with the criteria
3. Bids which meet the criteria advance to the next stage
4. Evaluate those bids which satisfy the criteria
5. The best 10 bids are successful

I've consistently said that I don't believe that the ARU didn't did step 1 correctly and that is why steps 2-5 are more problematic than they should be.

 

[Dave Beat]

I mean how simple are the principles involved here? :

1. You set out criteria in order to achieve the best result
2. You compare each bid with the criteria
3. Bids which meet the criteria advance to the next stage
4. Evaluate those bids which satisfy the criteria
5. The best 10 bids are successful

I've consistently said that I don't believe that the ARU didn't did step 1 correctly and that is why steps 2-5 are more problematic than they should be.

Agree with most of what you say, maybe the criteria should be tightened so the best 8 bids to start with and evolve to 10 down the track. I'd like to see how that would play out -

 

[MACCA]

MACCA that's why I said "from the outside".
Randwick is doing all the work???? - maybe in their eyes, and to benefit solely them - it appears (from the outside)???

Okay then, why are South talking with the Rams? Is it because that is their preference or is it because Randwick only wanted it their way, and one way.

"If" Easts are talking to Country (which you said you've heard) they obviously want to be involved in the NRC and doing what they can to be involved so why;
- do you say above don't want to be distracted by the NRC?
- so why aren't Easts / Randwick working?

Shouldn't it be South Harbor working together for South Harbor?

As i have said, from the outside it appears Randwick want it all about Randwick - Southern are working with the Rams, and Easts are looking for people to work with. As a number of people have posted before me - Southern / Easts / Randwick in a Southern Harbor team just looks like commonsense.

I agree. Just passing on what I have heard and trying to join a few dots.

 

[Quick Hands]

Agree with most of what you say, maybe the criteria should be tightened so the best 8 bids to start with and evolve to 10 down the track. I'd like to see how that would play out -

I say 10 only because the information on one of the past couple of pages indicated that they were going with 10. (I disclose that I have always been in favour of 10)

 

[Dave Beat]

I agree. Just passing on what I have heard and trying to join a few dots.

All good, it's just that what you posted didn't stack up.
One breath said Easts don't want to be distracted by the NRC.
Then the next breath you say they are in discussions with country.

 

[Dave Beat]

Agree with most of what you say, maybe the criteria should be tightened so the best 8 bids to start with and evolve to 10 down the track. I'd like to see how that would play out -

I say 10 only because the information on one of the past couple of pages indicated that they were going with 10. (I disclose that I have always been in favour of 10)

I think it will be 10 to, but I'd like to see how 8 would play out, and in the long hall it maybe better 8 growing to 10

 

[Battalion]

All good, it's just that what you posted didn't stack up.
One breath said Easts don't want to be distracted by the NRC.
Then the next breath you say they are in discussions with country.

easts management to players in two weeks. "the good news is we are in the nrc. the bad news fellow beastie boys, you will have to give up your day job for three months and live and train in bathurst, orange and dubbo. but hey at least we aren't with the wicks."

talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

good job north harbour put aside rivalries to make this work.

 

[Dave Beat]

easts management to players in two weeks. "the good news is we are in the nrc. the bad news fellow beastie boys, you will have to give up your day job for three months and live and train in bathurst, orange and dubbo. but hey at least we aren't with the wicks."

talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

good job north harbour put aside rivalries to make this work.

Yep the All Blacks are also one of our fiercest rivals to. But I hope they smash every team apart from the Wobs. An example Anzac V British Lions - love to see that one day.

Maybe working together is about maturity and respect for the game.

 

[Hugie]

An Easts Country consortia can't possibly work, the cultural differences are too big. The Eastern suburbs are just full of latte drinking vegans, country people drink beer and eat meat, Eastern suburbs go to art shows and the opera, country go to cattle sales and country and westerns. What music could they possibly play during the games? Are they going to offer lentil burgers at the games? This will never work.

At least with North Harbour they can all talk about their property prices and the last auction result. Western Sydney can talk about hotting up their cars and the latest air ram super charged turbo thingy. Sydney Uni and Balmain can talk about the role of gender equality in the front row and how gender stereotypes influenced left wing selections during the 1960s. There are cultural common values.

This East Country thing isn't thought out.

 

[p.Tah]

That's a bit tough on Easts. Some of them have been to Homebush, that's the country isn't it?

 

[Rugby Central]

An Easts Country consortia can't possibly work, .

There's the confusion, people must of thought it was an East / Country ROAD consortia

 

[Tigers Tale]

2014 Australian Club Championship - 22 March - Sydney Uni v (Bne) Easts

Given Sydney Uni's trial form (downing Eastwood 35-15 on the weeklend) and the fact that (Brisbane) Easts will be without their Reds A & U20 representatives - Sydney Uni would have to be firm favourites for this Saturday's Australian Club Championship match to be played in Brisbane at the home ground of the 2013 Brisbane Premiers - Easts - David Wilson Field , Bottomley Park.

Easts will only run out 6 of their 2013 Grand Final side. (Nos: 2, 3, 9, 10, 11, 13)

I am sure that Sydney Uni's side will not bear much resemblance to their 2013 GF side either, but I would predict that they have greater depth.

Will be an interesting encounter none the less.

These two sides fought out the 2009 version played at Homebush when an Andrew Walker inspired Easts took home the chocolates.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

For those having difficulty with the Easts/ NSW Country partnership - any NSW Country affiliated side will train in Sydney and be mostly made up of Country origin players, most of which are playing in the SS now. Any partnership with Easts will be the same as any of the other partnerships with Easts and NSW Country having a say in the players, coaches and administration of the side.

Yes they will play games in Country venues but this isn't so bad as it brings some good standard rugby to those areas (Central West NSW - Dubbo, Bathurst and Orange - is a big Rugby area and one area where the game is growing and competing well against Country RL).

I think its a smart move as in this partnership they will have a leading role in the partnership and will be better placed than having to come to grips with existing "troubles" between them and other Sydney based sides. Also, NSW Country can possibly come to the party with financing and will be happy to create some form of relationship with a Sydney side - a possible pathway for promising Country players to enter teh SS

 

[Dave Beat]

Yes they will play games in Country venues but this isn't so bad as it brings some good standard rugby to those areas (Central West NSW - Dubbo, Bathurst and Orange - is a big Rugby area and one area where the game is growing and competing well against Country RL).

I think its a smart move as in this partnership they will have a leading role in the partnership and will be better placed than having to come to grips with existing "troubles" between them and other Sydney based sides. Also, NSW Country can possibly come to the party with financing and will be happy to create some form of relationship with a Sydney side - a possible pathway for promising Country players to enter teh SS

I also reckon it is a great idea, they are grasping the idea of growing and strengthening rugby, and i hope they succeed.

Tim Gavin a retired Beastie is a perfect example the meat eating, and beer drinking country boys can hack it in the big smoke. And whilst times may have changed since the early 90's there are allot of country boarders going to school in the city.

So no doubt country will follow Easts through the SS, and then their NRC team - it also provides the country boarders with a pathway post school should they opt to take it.