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NSW Schools Debating 2014

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DjDownunder

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Also, this friday is the state finals for the public school competition between NSGHS and SBHS. I know boys are traditionally very strong but North Sydney have a very strong outfit this year. I think it could be a really exciting competition.

Does anyone have any particular thoughts?
 

aka_the_think

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Results from Friday night:

Grammar def. Kings
Newington def. Riverview
High def. Joeys
Not sure about Scots and Shore, but I suspect the former won.

Further, a week before the first round High and Scots debated, with the former coming away with the win in the 1sts.

At this stage in the competition - only round 2 - I believe that Grammar are the only undefeated team.
High - lost to Kings but beat Joeys and Scots
New - lost to Grammar but beat Riverview
Joeys - lost to High and Scots
Riverview - beat Shore but lost to Newington
Kings - lost to Grammar but beat High
Shore - lost to Riverview, not sure about the second round
Scots - lost to High but beat Joeys, not sure about the second round
Grammar - beat New and Kings

These results are a testament to the strength of the competition - all the teams can pick up a win here or there, but I think Grammar will be tough to beat up the top.

The predictions made earlier are probably somewhat accurate, though I am not so sure that Joeys will be as strong as people think.

I think Grammar's going to go undefeated, no other team compares in my opinion. What are people's thoughts about winners in teams other than the firsts or should we not bother?


If by that you mean the GPS 2nds comp, I'm happy to discuss. I personally think that Riverview will be tough to beat. They are all year 11, from my understanding, but they're a strong year. 2 of them have experience in the ISDA Senior A. Grammar - whose Senior B team won the ISDA comp - lost on Friday night to Kings, potentially ending their season early on the piece.

Kings are likely to be strong, as their year 11 cohort is very, very good. I am not sure how the teams have been picked, but I have a feeling that their 2nds is largely comprised of year 11s, so I think they'll be strong.

Nonetheless, for now my money is on Riverview, I fear that the the beast is being reawakened!
 

aka_the_think

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Also, this friday is the state finals for the public school competition between NSGHS and SBHS. I know boys are traditionally very strong but North Sydney have a very strong outfit this year. I think it could be a really exciting competition.

Does anyone have any particular thoughts?


Please keep us all updated on this.

I am not sure how High manage to simultaneously compete in CHS and GPS with debates seemingly clashing, but my money is on high.

From my perspective the CHS seems to be a significantly weaker comp to the GPS, at least at the top end. For High to be traditionally dominant in CHS but not particularly strong in GPS (traditionally) speaks volumes about the comparative quality of both comps.
 

Max_Power128

Frank Row (1)
Kings are likely to be strong, as their year 11 cohort is very, very good. I am not sure how the teams have been picked, but I have a feeling that their 2nds is largely comprised of year 11s, so I think they'll be strong.

The King's 2nds are mostly year 12s, with one year 11 in the team. The 1sts have two year 11s and a year 12.
 

Michael Serafim

Frank Row (1)
If by that you mean the GPS 2nds comp, I'm happy to discuss. I personally think that Riverview will be tough to beat. They are all year 11, from my understanding, but they're a strong year. 2 of them have experience in the ISDA Senior A. Grammar - whose Senior B team won the ISDA comp - lost on Friday night to Kings, potentially ending their season early on the piece.

Kings are likely to be strong, as their year 11 cohort is very, very good. I am not sure how the teams have been picked, but I have a feeling that their 2nds is largely comprised of year 11s, so I think they'll be strong.

Nonetheless, for now my money is on Riverview, I fear that the the beast is being reawakened!



Having looked at the GPS website the only undefeated teams are Riverview and High, admittedly this is only 2 debates in (although apparently 3 for high, does anyone know why it was rescheduled). It is also interesting to note that Grammar's loss was to Kings, while High has already beaten Kings. Maybe it's time to do some re-evaluation of schools?
 
F

footy_talent_recognition

Guest
More predictions pls!
Top 3 for 1sts:
1) Grammar
2) Newington
3) High
(do watch out for King's who I understand to have an extremely strong third)
Predictions for the 2:
1) King's
2) Grammar
3) High
Although this competition is extremely balanced I think that we could even have a three way tie. Grammar will be versing High in the last round, should make for an exciting finish
 

Wolfey

Stan Wickham (3)
Also will watch CHS debate tomorrow. Sure to be a cracker! Anyone keen for a meet and greet afterwards? I've got a tute at like 1pm but am good for a sneaky darb outside Fisher
 

Wallaby97

Stan Wickham (3)
Have just got word that James Stratton's done his ACL and is likely to be out for the rest of the season. This could open GPS right up.
 

aka_the_think

Jimmy Flynn (14)
News wrap up:

Aloysius have beaten Knox in Round 4 of the CAS, which positions them well to take out the entire comp. This is huge news, and perhaps not anticipated as Knox got the better of them back in ISDA. Congrats to Aloys and commiserations to Knox. Topic was "That government should not allow men and women to be allowed to have separate areas of worship", with Knox affirming.

EDIT (Correction) Sydney Boys defeated North Sydney Girls in the CHS finals. I don't know more than this, so I'd appreciate contributions. I also have a question - how did Sydney High balance commitments to the GPS comp given the clash? Did they send a weaker team to CHS (or alternately to GPS)? Just interested.

In GPS, Grammar have maintained their undefeated run with a victory over Scots, while Kings went down to Riverview in a unanimous decision. Also, in the ends comp Kings defeated Riverview, creating a massive concentration of schools up the top.

In the SDN comp - for those interested - Riverview defeated Abbotsleigh, positioning maintaining their undefeated streak and firming them as likely favourites to take out the title.

I am yet to hear any info. on Archdale fixtures, other GPS results (i.e. Newington, Shore, Joeys et al.) or on CAS results, but I'll post them as they come through.

Feel free to fill in the blanks.
 

DRH

Bob McCowan (2)
Hi all,

Long time lurker on this forum, great to see that there's somewhere to talk about debating, have been v. interested in the recent analysis. Haven't got any particular news to add to aka_the_think's update, but a bit of speculation/predictions.

The Grammar 1sts look near unbeatable, esp. considering they apparently won tonight without Stratton. Pacino and Babidge are v. solid, as shown by their success in state trials, whilst their year 11 speaker looks to be maturing solidly as a debater under Stratton's tutelage. Newington also look strong, but their early-season loss to Grammar was fairly comprehensive, and they'd be very lucky for Grammar to lose a debate from here, considering their undefeated(?) year so far. High would definitely be in with a fighting chance had they not somehow capitulated to Kings. In any case, you just can't look past Stratton.

The 2nds looks more open, with Grammar's surprising loss last week making it considerably more competitive. Kings' defeat of Riverview means that it is essentially a 4-horse race between Kings, Riverview, Grammar and High, with my personal tip being a Grammar-High tie. The High-Riverview debate looks to be a cracker next week, which I'll hopefully get to see. As always, the final round of Grammar v High will probably be v. influential.

Seeing as the 1sts could well all be wrapped up for this year, considering all other teams have somehow managed to already had a loss, any thoughts on how schools are shaping up for next year? Grammar's stranglehold over the GPS could well be coming to an end, with the fairly average class of 2015 having just 1 in the 1sts and 1 in the 2nds, and the 3rds bombing out well out of finals contention in the weaker Eastside competition earlier this year.

Also, any thoughts on how the rule changes, esp. regarding 4th speakers, are affecting the GPS this year? This rather odd decision has seen a couple of the debates I've seen turn into somewhat of a schmozzle without the benefit of a 4th to organise the team.
 
F

footy_talent_recognition

Guest
Hi all,

Long time lurker on this forum, great to see that there's somewhere to talk about debating, have been v. interested in the recent analysis. Haven't got any particular news to add to aka_the_think's update, but a bit of speculation/predictions.

The Grammar 1sts look near unbeatable, esp. considering they apparently won tonight without Stratton. Pacino and Babidge are v. solid, as shown by their success in state trials, whilst their year 11 speaker looks to be maturing solidly as a debater under Stratton's tutelage. Newington also look strong, but their early-season loss to Grammar was fairly comprehensive, and they'd be very lucky for Grammar to lose a debate from here, considering their undefeated(?) year so far. High would definitely be in with a fighting chance had they not somehow capitulated to Kings. In any case, you just can't look past Stratton.

The 2nds looks more open, with Grammar's surprising loss last week making it considerably more competitive. Kings' defeat of Riverview means that it is essentially a 4-horse race between Kings, Riverview, Grammar and High, with my personal tip being a Grammar-High tie. The High-Riverview debate looks to be a cracker next week, which I'll hopefully get to see. As always, the final round of Grammar v High will probably be v. influential.

Seeing as the 1sts could well all be wrapped up for this year, considering all other teams have somehow managed to already had a loss, any thoughts on how schools are shaping up for next year? Grammar's stranglehold over the GPS could well be coming to an end, with the fairly average class of 2015 having just 1 in the 1sts and 1 in the 2nds, and the 3rds bombing out well out of finals contention in the weaker Eastside competition earlier this year.

Also, any thoughts on how the rule changes, esp. regarding 4th speakers, are affecting the GPS this year? This rather odd decision has seen a couple of the debates I've seen turn into somewhat of a schmozzle without the benefit of a 4th to organise the team.


Pretty easy to say that Kings will be the team to beat in 2015, although they tend to not focus too hard on the GPS season. Can't really see any other team that would look to pose a challenge, with High and Grammar both having a relatively weaker cohort in year 11. From my understanding, Scotts have a decent year 11 side as well.
 

aka_the_think

Jimmy Flynn (14)
The Grammar 1sts look near unbeatable, esp. considering they apparently won tonight without Stratton. Pacino and Babidge are v. solid, as shown by their success in state trials, whilst their year 11 speaker looks to be maturing solidly as a debater under Stratton's tutelage. Newington also look strong, but their early-season loss to Grammar was fairly comprehensive, and they'd be very lucky for Grammar to lose a debate from here, considering their undefeated(?) year so far. High would definitely be in with a fighting chance had they not somehow capitulated to Kings. In any case, you just can't look past Stratton.

I think this analysis is fair, but I think High are quite overrated. They've lost two debates this year - to Newington and Kings, and from what I've heard they aren't particularly strong, though they did win CHS.

[/quote]The 2nds looks more open, with Grammar's surprising loss last week making it considerably more competitive. Kings' defeat of Riverview means that it is essentially a 4-horse race between Kings, Riverview, Grammar and High, with my personal tip being a Grammar-High tie.[/quote]

I think it'd be folly to overlook Riverview and Kings in the 2nds comp - I think they're clearly both hard to beat. Riverview's loss last night was on the hard side of a topic, but they're still equal first in the comp. Kings have also taken two big scalps in Riverview and Grammar, though their lost to High could be costly. I tip Riverview and Grammar to be the big ones .

[/quote]The High-Riverview debate looks to be a cracker next week, which I'll hopefully get to see..[/quote]

The firsts or seconds?

[/quote]
Seeing as the 1sts could well all be wrapped up for this year, considering all other teams have somehow managed to already had a loss, any thoughts on how schools are shaping up for next year? Grammar's stranglehold over the GPS could well be coming to an end, with the fairly average class of 2015 having just 1 in the 1sts and 1 in the 2nds, and the 3rds bombing out well out of finals contention in the weaker Eastside competition earlier this year. [/quote]

2015 is definitely going to be a close year, with Riverview, Kings and Scots all staking significant claims.
At this stage, I think Riverview will be strong. They have 3 year 11s in the 2nds and 1 in the 1sts, so they'll have plenty of experience. They've also had some great results over the years - they've gone 1 debate away from the ISDA final virtually every year, and have won some smaller comps over the years.

Pretty easy to say that Kings will be the team to beat in 2015, although they tend to not focus too hard on the GPS season. Can't really see any other team that would look to pose a challenge, with High and Grammar both having a relatively weaker cohort in year 11. From my understanding, Scotts have a decent year 11 side as well.


Up until this year I thought Kings would be particularly good, though the recent form of a year 11s has been disappointing, and I am not sure that current results - particularly in the 1sts which has 2 year 11s in it - augurs well. Nonetheless, I won't count them out, because I've heard they're very strong.
Scots are also great, but recent form has been really disappointing. Their 2 best year 11s are currently overseas, and therefore unable to compete at any level, and - unfortunately for Scots - they're also the 2 best debaters the school can offer, so their absence is probably impacting results. Having gone undefeated in GPS last year (Year 10) and winning ISDA in year 9 (2012), they'll definitely be strong.

[/quote] Also, any thoughts on how the rule changes, esp. regarding 4th speakers, are affecting the GPS this year? This rather odd decision has seen a couple of the debates I've seen turn into somewhat of a schmozzle without the benefit of a 4th to organise the team.[/quote]

As far as I'm aware GPS has always been a competition with 3 speakers and no 4th. The weirdest recent rule change is the reduction in time limit to 7 minutes. I don't quite understand this one - are they attempting to align timing with wudc? Seems odd, and most debaters just ignore the bells and go to 8.30.

Also, has anyone else been monitoring world schools results? I see Australia lost a pool/round debate to Mexico - which is very surprising - though they've won the other 3 debates.
 

DRH

Bob McCowan (2)
I see Australia lost a pool/round debate to Mexico - which is very surprising - though they've won the other 3 debates.

Absolute shocker that one, though the team does seem to be weaker this year now that Bo Seo and others have moved on - England looking v. strong so far.

As far as I'm aware GPS has always been a competition with 3 speakers and no 4th. The weirdest recent rule change is the reduction in time limit to 7 minutes. I don't quite understand this one - are they attempting to align timing with wudc? Seems odd, and most debaters just ignore the bells and go to 8.30.

My bad on that one, guess I'm just used to watching ISDA - though I have noticed the reduced times, which I guess is a reaction to the shortened prep times for GPS as compared to most other competitions.

As for next year, have heard Riverview are a good side, as well as Kings - though both of them had average performances in ISDA this season I see, with none of their Senior A or B teams making it past the first round of finals. Interesting to see Scots could be a contender, they've certainly seemed to have invested a great deal in their debating programme within the last few years. Still, though, you can never rule out Grammar, especially assuming Elle Jones remains as coach.

My thoughts on Riverview and Kings in the 2nds comp are largely determined by their results in ISDA, though they certainly had tough opponents there. The Riverview-Grammar round should be a major decider for both 1sts and 2nds competitions, though a minor miracle will be needed for anyone to beat the Grammar 1sts. High could well be a dark horse, having not really been tested thoroughly enough in CHS to say just how good they may be, esp. in 2nds.

Anyone got any tips for the combined GPS side?
 

Wolfey

Stan Wickham (3)
Topic for CHS final was that there should be co-payments for medical visits, with Sydney Boys affirming. North Sydney Girls were unable to come back against SB's model, which defended the government's $7 policy. It shouldn't have been difficult to establish how even $7 precludes a lot of impoverished people from accessing medical services, but unfortunately NSG didn't substantiate this. Wasn't a great debate, but at least we have one certain winner amongst the major competitions in the state.

And DRH, a lot of people have been saying that the GPS Firsts team will consist of Pacino, Stratton and Rees. Quick question about squad selection: do they choose speakers who correspond with their position on the team, or is it normal protocol to allow a good first speaker to move down to, say, second for the reps team? I'm fairly certain that Rees and Stratton share the same position, so some clarification on this would be helpful.

Such a shame with Knox. They held their ground quite well against the likes of Grammar during the ISDA final, even though the latter clearly emerged as the victor within the first thirty seconds of Stratton's speech. I've heard that Knox this year have conceded not just one, but two loses in CAS, first to Trinity and second to Aloysius. One of Knox's speakers said that they were unlucky to lose to Trinity and that it was one mess of a debate. It looks like Aloysius, with a clean slate in the competition, have secured first place irrespective of the final round's result, with Barker and Knox both vying for second, each having sustained two losses.

With regards to the CAS teams, I've included the first full list of predictions. The 1sts list is largely my own, while the 2nds list was elaborated on by someone I know who's involved in coaching one of the CAS schools.

CAS 1sts:
1. Damien Vickovich (Aloysius)
2. Tim Berney-Gibson (Barker)
3. Robbie Ferguson (Knox)
4. Liam Thorne (Aloysius)

CAS 2nds:
1. Kevin Kim (Knox)
2. Lorenzo Benitez (Aloysius)
3. Laura Colenbrander (Barker)
4. Gary Chen (Trinity)
 
F

footy_talent_recognition

Guest
any results from high 1sts and 2nds in the GPS comp?
 

GPS_lover

Frank Row (1)
Rumour has it High 1sts were mauled by Newington.

Might I also offer my thanks to aka_the_think for his outstanding contribution to the forum over recent months!
 
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